blonde poker forum

£100 freezeout, Luton

1st level, 25-50

8,000 starting

Three limpers.....to Hero on SB with  Kh Kc

raise to 500, it being tricky to ascertain what raise might get the field thinned but not completely thinned....

Two callers, Jim McBride in the cut off, knows his onions but could be any pocket pair here. He often set mines to raises early on. More likely than an unmade hand like AQ/KJ/A10 etc

Second caller is a South African gentleman, played him before but mental notes are sparse. Not a lot to go on, but not a novice, and not spewy.

So 1600 in the pot when the flop comes the magnificent

 Kh Ts Td

I lead for 1200 here. Slow play check too suspicious from me

Called in both spots, which is equally magnificent. Lets hope there's a bare ten out, or a meaningful pocket pair or KQ

turn  Tc

Now how do we like it?

1. How do you play the turn here?

I choose to check, admittedly this may be very weak but I have a ten in the range of the second caller on the flop. I suddenly want to keep the pot small

It's checked round

2. How then do you play the river?

I check again, intending to check call. I'll leave the rest for the moment

OK

Please take me through how you would play this on the turn and river

I am interested really in how many streets of value I should be extracting here against two opponents, and at what point I should be slowing down to action

I fully accept my line was the weakest possible....but I'm here to listen!!

I think your personally missing value here.

I would lead turn. Case King is just as likely as the 10.

Also QJ is obviously out there. :D

I may then check/call river but most likely go to bustoville if someone has quadded up

weak bet the turn - 75% v bet on river (could be all in?) - and not folding at any point

just coolered if beat and obv case K pays you off

You are only losing here to the   Th.   I'm betting 50% of the pot after the turn.  Hopefully keep them both interested, but you want at least one of them.  Hopefully the river is no A or  Th! and im then betting about 75%

fold

I don't mind checking the turn then bet folding the river.

u sure will bet fold the river once u check the turn james...u will level urself and 3bet jam the river for value imo thinking the guy is gna call with 88 or some hand like this looooool

Meh live poker 100f on a weekday, i am guessing he aint going to bluff shove the river level 1 against a known rock because then he would have to drive all the way home again or wait around for 2hrs till the cash game starts.

What are you talking about James? The case king never jams right? Bad advice imo.

I don't like how you play this hand Rich. You check the turn/river hoping to keep the pot small with the 2nd nuts (which is poker nasty in itself), but if quads are out there the pot will get big automatically just because of that fact. I think trying to manipulate a small pot vs quads is an impossible task isn't it? Any villain with a 10 is making the same mistake as you by checking the turn and not pot building vs worse hands! I mean think about why quads man checks the turn?? He knows at least one of his oppos has a King they're never folding!! So what's he doing?? All this check check check kings full vs quads. What is going on? I really think you should be trying to get some money into this pot Tighty.

+1

If you lead for a half pot 2.6k on the river and villain pushes you will face calling your remaining 3.5k into a 14k pot. I think turning down 4/1 about your oppo having a king is pretty rude really. And why do we discount villain having a king again? Don't really get the motivation behind the river bet if you're planning to fold. It would appear to be a weird bet for information that only really tells you what you already know....villain has a king or a 10. Why is it 4x more likely he has a 10 again?

3 streets of value for me

or maybe bet 30-60% of the pot on the turn

then check call on river

He who dares rodney, guess i am agg i would have them ai.

I like how you've played it except betting the river...

I agree with this....I'd bet stronger on the turn, if someone has the ten they should shove as you must have a K, if they smooth called Aces, AK, KQ, KJ, QQ preflop, they maybe think you were representing the ten and shove anyway....I'd go broke on this, if you lose you have a nice bad beat stoy about how some idiot called 10xBB with Th 2h and bust your kings :D I also wrap the dealers knuckles for having two Kh 's in the deck ;)

I want this pot as small as possible now.

They can't both have a king so you've got to put one of them on the 10.

The only way you win a big pot here is if by some miracle one of them has the case king and the other has slow played AA pre. If that's the case they're likely as nervous as you of this board and want to get to showdown as cheaply as possible.

Check the turn seems like a fine plan to me. You're all just about deep enough that the 10 won't jam the river as there's only just over 5k in the pot. Hopefully just a vb for 3k which I think you have to call as you're still on 3k at the 25/50 level.

Fold to the jam though assuming that they have equal chips to yourself.

If you've been bluffed then fair play to the guy. He's done good.

Flushy. When you say bet fold the river how much were you thinking?

Do you not think he's opening himself up to be bluffed? Admittedly it takes a brave man to bluff here but thinking it through Tighty never has the 10 here.

They can't both have a king so you've got to put one of them on the 10.

Why can't one of the villains have J-Q?

I don't want to be a pain but can someone direct me to how i find instruction on how to post HH.

Cheers

Steve

and...............

They can easily have JQ but what's in it for us if they have? If JQ is in their range then we have to put J10 in there too which is why I'd want the pot small.

If they've got JQ I can't see them paying us off now that the other 10 has dropped. Are they going to call a turn bet hoping to hit a 5 to 1 shot which is probably losing anyway?

The only way I can see this pot getting big and us winning is if one of them has AA and the other has the case K. We are deep enough to not have to go broke on a dangerous board. I can't see us getting much value out of the hand and any bet becomes too exploitable when someone shoves over the top of it.

Any under pair to the K is worried about the other 3 kings out there. Even AA will be concerned in the same way that we are. I would hope from the turn action that it would check round again because everyone was worried. I would be happy to play this passive as Tighty has and check call.

The chances of them having the 10 are exactly the same as them having the K. That makes this a 50 50 which we don't need imo.

I'm guessing that this thread is here because there is significant action by the 2 oppos following Tighty's check.

I'd guess something like check, check, 3.5k, Tighty calls, shove, call, Tighty tank calls and is shown KQ and A10 and wants to know if he should've gone with his passive instinct and passed.

Or I might be completely wrong.

Do we need Sue to come along and ask 'what happened next?'

(http://hub.tv-ark.org.uk/images/bbc_northwest/bbc_nw_images/network/question_sport_2007c.jpg)

My weak/keep the pot small/one must have a ten arse checked the river, intending to check call I suppose

they both checked behind with QJ and unknown, claimed pocket pair

I won the pot

The reason for posting was to establish how much value I should extract here, and at what point you'd worry about a ten, if at all

I think its naive to not worry about the 10, but we should def bet the river...

Well look I'm not disagreeing about the fact we don't get paid by J-Q if we bet. It's the attitude that we must put one of the villain's on a 10 if they call the flop that i didn't like. By thinking like that you lose value from K's...and pp's if you don't bet the river. If Tighty bets the river he can easily look like Q-J himself and get paid by worse pp's and deffo the k. Defining your strat around the fear your oppo has quads is not optimum thinking imo, but if Tighty is checking cos he thinks oppo's will bet worse then ok.

If you believe it's 50/50 that villain has a k or a 10 then Flushy's leading and folding strat when getting 4-1 about an even money shot is hard to grasp imo.

What I meant here was that there's 1 10 out there and 1 king.

The king pays us off, the 10 muffs us. So it's a 50 50 that we're getting paid or muffed.

Is anyone who know's tighty really going to put him on JQ here? I can't see it tbh. The turn may suggest it but pf definitely not.

Check to call just seems safer than betting out.

A meaningful value bet is around 3k meaning that a raise sets us in. Then what?

Just seems to invite the bluff is all I'm thinking because I agree with Flushy that we have to pass here in a live deep event.

Flushy's advice that we have to pass to a jam is plain bad. Number one reason is that Tighty leads out for 3/4 of the pot when he flops kings full. Why does he do this?....COS IT WONT LOOK LIKE KINGS FULL!!! So you make a mockery of his decent enough strat if you start telling me how strong Tighty's gonna look to his oppos if he bets the river. He has disguised his hand well on the flop. But checking both streets thereafter makes the betting out strong trap a real pointless exercise.

Also all this "anyone who knows Tighty" rubbish is exposed by the fact that the 2 villains (who know him) call his 1200 lead with a straight draw (on a paired board) and an UNDERPAIR to the board. Yeah, they sure wouldn't put money into this pot without quads! If you do face a jam on the river you call easy and quick...cos your hand is disguised...the pot is offering 4/1...and there's one king, one ten, and a few other hands that jam in this spot.

Also Tighty should be playing J-Q the same way as Kings full in this spot.

All i keep seeing is you saying K and T both jam 100%, this is simply not true.

Dude, they don't have to jam a K 100% of the time to make bet/calling the river correct. Getting approx 4/1 mean they only have to jam it a fraction of the time to make the strat pay. You don't think these nits who call 1,200 with underpairs on the flop are gonna do that if they got a K? C'mon.

Apply the Zeebo theorem (can't believe it hasn't been mentioned). People don't fold fullhouses, they just don't. And you have one of these guy's range's specifically narrowed to pocket pairs preflop. You MUST bet out on the river. I'd agree with Flushy in that if you bet the river and either goes all - in folding is probably correct. But you MUST bet out.