blonde poker forum

Does any1 have any cash game advice for playing AK in the small blind after someone has raised preflop?

I may even welcome Ironside's advice. This is his speciality after all.

call and see what the flop look likes

is reraising a worthy option?

depends where the raise came from

a rock in seat 1 then no

brain wilson on the button then yes

Not enough information - What stage of the tourney are you at? How many chips do you have compared to the rest of the table? What type of player has raised originally and what position are they in? What is your image at the table? Is the raiser the type of player who can lay a good hand down when faced with strength? Is this a cash game, sng or mtt?

;)

its ok steve moneky boy will work it out when he has had his first banana of the day

sorry missed that  :D well i wont offer any advice - i'm an mtt monkey!!

i suppose some of the thoughts in my post still apply!!

i'll be ok when i leave work in about 4 hours!! not a good idea to start on the bananas while in work, they never get me back down from the top of the cupboards!!

Okay, I sat down at a cash game table.

I have $200 average stack. Another guy in middle position ($200 also), who I know nothing about, raises the 1/2 blinds to $8.

Everyone folds. I have AK in the small blind.

Should I call or reraise? If I raise, how much should I stick in? What should I do if the flop comes rags?

I raise. You may not push him off the hand but you should be able to take control of it if he doesn't raise you back. He will certainly be less happy about making a continuation bet out of position and if he does you can often winn it with a decent re raise. And who knows you may even hit the flop.

I'm in the small blind, so I'd be playing first.

That guy will have position over snoopy

bugger too late

i Still raise. i really should pay attention.

You can trap but it requires hitting the flop, if your willing to commit two bets of $32 to the pot then i would raise. Otherwise i flat call and hope to hit the flop, but i don't like flat calling.

i would either call or make it 30 to go

if i make it 30 and he comes over the top i could laydown or stick in basically just reading from how the table is playing

if i call i am looking to hit flop or fold

I'd call until you know what the flop brings, raising would give him a chance of going over the top of you and you are probably facing a made hand compared to you drawer.

But what do I know

if he comes over the top you know where you are and therefore you can fold and lose the minimium

What if he flatcalls your raise and then the flop comes rags?

Do you bet or check?

bet he has shown weakness by flat calling you are representing a big pair

He could easily have QQ, JJ, or TT. Maybe even AA KK if he's sneaky. He could also have hit a set.

Do you just give it up and check it down if he calls the bet on the flop?

this is pretty close to the info you need to consider when you play Ak.

I'll offer one little tip though, lets say that you are playing 1/2 NL, and the raiser makes it $10.. and has $80 total, and you know hes a bit of a loosey goosey.. you figure to be a long ways ahead of his range. Obviously you want to play against his hand.. so  you shovel your chips in, right?

nooo... the leverage bet is the best idea. If you make it $35/$40, you are committing HIM to the pot, whilst you aren't committing yourself to the pot if the BB wakes up with a big hand.

As an example, if you have $250 or so, BB has $200, and you make it up to $80, to put the loosey goosey all-in, and BB wakes up with a monster and jams, you are pretty much committed, but if you make it $40, and BB then comes over the top, you aren't committed, and can get away from it

you still achieve the same thing, ie getting the loosey gooseys stack in the middle, but you avoid getting roped into the pot by a monster from the BB, as he will need a monster to play in that spot.

Naturally these figures aren't set in stone, but its just an example of playing AK to maximise the chances of getting THEIR stack in the middle when you have the best of it, but minimizes the chance of you getting your stack in the middle when the BB has the best of it.

Again it depends on the player and the texture of the flop, against some it's worth firing a bullet, others it is not, depends how you feel really.

I knew nothing about the table and had only played a few hands.

ps. Welcome to Blonde, Totalise and cheers for the advice. I'll definitely take that on board.

Maybe it's not the time to be playing a big pot then?

Call and see what the flop brings?

OK Snoop I am a cash game fish so take my advice with that in mind.

Calling - this is an option but I am not sure I like it . If  you call then you have no further information on the raisers hand, even if you hit the flop ie top pair top kicker then you cant be sure you are ahead . If you hit the flop with 2 pair you could be losing to a set- unlikley but happens. The point here is you dont know where you are in the hand and you will be playing out of position for the remaining streets. This is a bad situation to be in.

You said that you dont have any info on this player so the only way to get that information is to use your chips .You need is to reraise in my opinion. Without knowing the players style or raising requirements it is difficult to peg him to a hand but a reraise definately narrows the field of what he should be calling with. If he chooses to call with a marginal hand then he makes a mistake and that is profit for you no matter who wins the pot. If you do reraise and he flat calls appreiate the fact you will almost have to put in a flop bet due to your position regardless of the flop. This bet will have a much higher sucess rate coming from a perflop raise than a preflop call.

If he reraises you post flop then I fold cash poker is about making bets per hour not gambling with 50/50 shots for your stack. If you call a reraise with AK here then you may as well go to the Blackjack tables and put you bankroll on RED.

Just my thoughts m8

How much should u bet on the flop?

I don't advise limping with AK but a smooth call into a raised preflop bet is thonly way to play AK here. Especially at low limits. So many players will raise with much less that you simply can not fold and reraising is not an option with your poor position. See what the flop brings. If its rags, your opponent could too have missed (AQ or AJ are common lp raises) so you may still have the best of it. Check it to him (forget control here as you dont want to build the pot into something you cant fold) let him either hang himself (depending what you know) then call raise or fold after his action. The strength or lack of his post flop action may help you decide your next move.

if I make a continuation bet then I bet the pot always . This is wether I have hit my hand or not. I think this is a long term +ev play.
There was a very very good article written by one of the full tilt pro's about the amount to bet I will dig it up and PM you the link.

I raise around half the pot. WIth the stacks what they are there is no need to go silly and bet the pot. $32 again should have the same result as a pot bet. If you bet the pot i think you are committed if he raises.

Cheers. Let's just say he calls a pot bet and then the turn comes a blank.

Should I tak another shot or just check?

Okay, let's stop beating around the bush. Here's the hand.

Feel free to tear my play to shreds. 8)


***** Hand History for Game 3125221388 *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, December 01, 08:02:19 EDT 2005
Table Table  69192 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: McGeiger1004 ( $230.60 )
Seat 2: snoopy1239 ( $265.25 )
Seat 3: bigrick32 ( $96 )
Seat 4: monster_nell ( $292.97 )
Seat 5: GoldMiner112 ( $198 )
Seat 6: neoteric ( $152.60 )
Seat 7: JadeStar ( $194 )
Seat 8: eChamp2 ( $170.40 )
Seat 9: rabbit143 ( $106.70 )
Seat 10: Blufftrash ( $197 )
snoopy1239 posts small blind [$1].
bigrick32 posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to snoopy1239 [  Ad Ks ]
monster_nell folds.
GoldMiner112 folds.
neoteric folds.
JadeStar folds.
eChamp2 raises [$7].
rabbit143 folds.
Blufftrash folds.
McGeiger1004 folds.
snoopy1239 raises [$19].
bigrick32 has been reconnected and has 14 seconds to act.
bigrick32 folds.
eChamp2 calls [$13].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, 4h, 8h ]
snoopy1239 bets [$30].
eChamp2 calls [$30].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
snoopy1239 checks.
eChamp2 checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 3h ]
snoopy1239 bets [$15].
eChamp2 is all-In.
JJ
snoopy1239 folds.
eChamp2 does not show cards.
eChamp2 wins $234.40
nh

I don't like to bet the river on a bluff after checking the turn, mainly because it screams of bluff.

I'd re-raise. By becoming the aggressor, you get negate positional disadvantage.

I check the river if i check the turn. i am now prepared to dump it to a raise. I may have raised you on the river to with no hand.

I have only skimmed thru the replies in this thread but i have been doing some reading lately and here is some excellent advice that applies to this situation.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3342313&page=3&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1&vc=1

Also when you reraise you then take on the betting momentum, whereas if not he then has it and is pretty much obliged to bet if you check a big hand :)

Advantages of re-raising pre-flop.

1. Someone behind you may tip off the strength of their hand, allowing you to get away relatively cheaply.
2. You could take the pot down right there
3. Easier to get all the money in when an A or K flops.
4. You can bet first when rags fall on flop, might take him off the same hand/wee pocket pair having represented a big pair yourself by taking the lead.
5. Most importantly - Calling is for woofters!

If rags fall, I like to bet a decent pot sized amount or thereabouts, the reason for this is that my opponent will only call if he can beat me. Now I know where I am. I will not need to fire another barrel on the turn or sticking in a (that river bet wants you hit on the beak with a rolled up newspaper snoopy) desperation river bluff.
If he calls a pot sized bet on the flop, I can fold with complete confidence should he bet later on.

<note to self> call tigmong's preflop raises with garbage then when he misses and checks down on turn and river stick in bluff bet on river to take pot......

shhhhhhh.....................

Why are you betting the river here snoop? There is a bucket load of chips in the pot and you are betting $15?! Ok a flush card has hit so I can see the reasoning  but if you want this pot here then you have to move all in . I doubt he would fold but some players would .

Following a called continuatin bet I then back off depending on my hand. With ace high i definately back off.  If he checks it down then fine but any substantial bet from him on a laret street and I'm gone.

I made that river bet so I could take the pot if he has AK.

I put him on either JJ, QQ, or AK.

So I thought it was worth $15 trying to steal a big pot if he doesn't have the overpair.

Thats why i said <note to self>!!!!!!  :D

Ok see the logic there are a few hands he could have that you beat ak, or Ax- even some funky str draw that missed . I am gonna have to think about that bet some more.

That's the logic anyhow, but I think you should only make it if there's a storng possibility that he called the flop with AK, and that he isn't capable of spotting your bluff and reraising with it.

If I check, then he may bluff me out with an AQ or AK holding.

I think your main problen here is that you have just joiined the table, mebbe you should play safe for a bit , take a flop with a call and fold if you miss. When you know more about you opponents you can begin to play them better. I mean just half an hour so you know their tightness and stuff just gives you a better chance of a positive outcome. Both from this pot and the session.

Agreed.

I need to know what he could call my preflop reraise with, whether he would call the flop bet with AK, and if he was capable of rerasing my river bluff with nothing.

The next time it happened, on another table, I just flatcalled.

I missed the flop again, but saved a little more money.

ps. I also bet the river because he checked the turn, which made me think that perhaps he had AK after all and could be made to fold.

tigmong doesn't play nl cash on t'internet.
he plays tournaments and rarely has a big enough stack in relation to the blinds to play AK in this manner.

If I had AK on the river and someone bet half what they bet on the flop after checking the turn, I'd usually raise them. He might have had AK and taken the pot off you.

I think QQ and JJ would have probably put in a bet on the turn after you checked. I think he had AK.

I had a think about the river bet and the problem with it is that it isn't big enouigh in relation to the pot to take anyone off any type of a hand . I call you down here with a high. So that means if you bet you will only recieve action from a hand that beats you. His reraise all in on the end is suspect as your bet looks to me like a value bet with the flush . Of course i call here with JJ but I dont know where he found a reraise from.
Interesting hand.

Or he may have a pair, figured out what you have and be inducing the bluff (and saving money if he's behind!)

who says he has JJ?

i think he had mid pair, hit trips and was waiting for you to hand yourself....

you bet exactly as i would've, except for the river bet which i'm not sure about - i don't think you'd knock many people off even if they had AK with that size bet, except for really really good players who'd probably figure you have a strong hand and are enticing the bet.

I agree. I think he made a loose call preflop, hit trips, and was hoping that I'd keep pushing an overpair.

His check on the turn is very odd.

If he has QQ or JJ, then why is he letting me in cheap after I have virtually given up the hand?

or

If he has AK or AQ, then why is he not making a bluff after I have virtually given up the hand?

Plus, to go all-in at the river suggest that he could well be holding a monster.

I thought it was in the hand history?

but then again, wouldn't he just flatcall because of the flush possibility?

How about this:  Kh Ah

What u reckon?

lol - that's the chat

and it's my chat.  ::)

LOL- I thought you had some funky tracker that showed folded hands!!   he has a monster here prob as he is not scared of the flush card then Ax H is a good shout A lot of internet players make overbets with the nuts and get them called cos they are suspicious.

yep, missed the hearts on board - defo nut flush made then - prob something like AJ/Q - adds up - bit of a loose call on flop but he has the overcards and flush draw and the only hands he's not beating are the AA/KK etc... all makes sense....

I would flat call for several reasons.

1) You do not have enough information about this player or the BB.

2) If you reraise say making it 25 to go there may be a pot of 50 pre flop. Now you aren't very deep stacked compared to the pot - and if you hit top pair it's very hard to get away from if you are up against a very big hand.

3) You are almost heads up anyway so there is no need to drive players out.

4) You don't really want a decision for all of your chips pre flop. By raising you are giving the opponent the opportunity to put you under the pressure. At this level of cash game people will move in with JJ QQ etc, do you really fancy a call with AK?

5) If you do hit a very large flop such as 10 J Q, your hand is disguised much better. You are more likely to be paid off.