blonde poker forum

Decision 1


Boss 100k Gtd  the bubble has just burst and with 55 players left I am chipleader with 130k.

Average chips 50k blinds 1500/3000 with a running ante of 300

I have just moved to this table and have no reads / info on villan

Folded to me on the Button and I raisie to 10600 with K J o/s

BB shoves for 50k total - I have to calll 40k into a pot that stands at approx 68k

Based on the fact the BB will be shoving light here should I be calling?

On the basis that I will be shoved on 50% of the time should I just shove 1st and let them decide if they want to call (small blind had a 50k stack also)

should I just fold pre if I am  not going to call a shove.


Decision 2


24 Players left average stack 110k blinds 3k / 6k ante 600

I raise UTG with AK o/s  - to 21k - I am playing 80K

UTG plus 1 min raises me to 38K he is also playing about 80k!!!!!

what now?

In the first hand, the size of the open is horrible. 2.5x>>>>>>>>>>>3.5x.

Decision 1 - Don't like your thinking. Just moved to a new table with no info/reads and you know you will be shoved on 50% of the time & bb will be shoving his average stack light. Where does all that info come from? GreekStein is right about raise size cos your stack works for you here. I think getting 50k in with K-J at a new table is very spewy. Fold for me. Pushing is horrible.

Decision 2 - You have less than an average stack now and A-K. How can you debate calling an average stack all-in with K-J in hand 1 and pushing less than an average stack all-in with A-K in hand 2?

1 - I would raise to 8500ish/fold to a shove...

2 - Shove pre, any flat calls and we have awkward flop decisions the 70% of the time we miss.  As played we have to dance with him, if he turns over and shows us KK now we have the odds to call...

1. Ok I take on board the opening raise size info and will adjust my opening raise accordingly in the future.
I did fold and yes it should have cost me less.

2. The mini raise really spooked me and in the end having tanked it,  for his stack size and mine I could only see a player doing it with AA / KK. Nothing else makes sense.

I folded again


The problem I have is at this stage of the tournament there is so much re shoving going on it is difficult to know how light to call. If I reduce the size of my opening raise this will help me get away with less damage.

Get it in with the second hand. Not deep enough to raise-fold AKo pre

1 - Raise to about 8k. 10.6k looks too much like a steal and invites the shove imo.

You say it's 50 50 that someone will shove when you raise here. By raising small with the intention of passing you get to change this percentage for next time which may help future decisions.

As played I don't mind a call. There's enough in the pot that you've not made a huge mistake unless you're up against AA. Chances are that you're up against a pair or some random ace so not a big underdog.

If you've run in to AK, AJ KK or QQ you're still not exactly drawing dead.

2 - Min raise again. Snap his shove.

After reading this thread, I think I'm going to widen the range which I limp-min3bet UTG when 12BBs deep.

It was previously at 0%

raise to 8k hand 1, or is SB is shorter than BB open shove.

hand 2, get it in!

I am probably contradicting myself here but the reason I raise with AK as oppose to an open shove is because I am hoping for a reraise from a hand I have dominated. i.e. A Q / A J

Even with that said I still think it was a good pass..........I think I might be in the minority here

Green = good thinking
Red = bad thinking

Obv raise less - thats been done to death

Hand 1 - easy/trivial fold - obv if you have raised less you are even less inclinded to call!

Hand 2 - i dont mind the open raise (2.5x thou) - but am never folding this hand. I wouldnt even pass if i got flatted and the flop came raggy with your stack.

With hand 2 your thinking is right - you want people to get it in with the worst - which is why i dont mind the open raise rather than the shove - it gives people more oppotunity to think they can reshove. In late position (c/o/button/sb) - i would probably open shove just to make it look like a blind steal and induce calls from Ax.

i meant shove the first hand, if chris's reply is due to my comment. If SB has less than BB i shove 1st hand.

2nd hand, raise/call is fine

you seem to be levelling yourself here chris.

The reason you don't shove is to induce a raise and when that raise comes you fold. Yep.

EvilPie, I don't think the K-J is just about the pot odds, although I think the chances you're dominated alone would be enough for me to fold this. It's just win or lose the other players will see you land at the table and immediately get 50k in with K-J. This means you'll get tagged as spewy and prob face jams from A-x or pairs anytime you open and means you'll have lost control of the table....so you'll have to nit up and wait for a hand...which isn't playing to the strength of the big stack. I think that's more of a mistake than calling in isolation....which is still a mistake imo.

Interesting.

Your raise sizing in bot hands is obviously terrible, already been hit upon by everyone.

The first hand, if you think you get shoved on 50% then its 25% ranges for the blinds and you are 44% against that range so you obv snap with your hand in the air. Raising and then not knowing what to do when you get shoved on here is obviously terrible.

The second hand is a level people wake up.

what would a shrewdie do?

probs get their chips in, lose a 50/50, moan about how shit their life is, threaten whoever owns boss with a greasefire and then lock rich in a cupboard

A shrewdie wouldn't play on boss in the first place....

Is this a major problem when the average stack is 17 bbs?

Do you get tagged as spewy for calling? I think you're more likely to get tagged as the big stack who doesn't raise with the intention of passing to a shove. If someone wants to shove over the top of one of your raises they are likely to get looked up. Seems less exploitable to me. Passing here means we have to nit up even more as people know they can get us to fold by shoving atc. Obviously this all goes tits up if we call and lose because we're no longer the big stack. Call and win however and the table is ours for the taking.

I agree it's definitely not about pot odds. If you know 100% that you're dominated then it's a pass.

However Chris has already said that he expected to get shoved on. This doesn't mean that he expects someone to have him dominated as he can't know that they'll have better cards than him.

The pot odds in this situation just helps if you happen to be in bad spot. I would expect to be ahead here or racing against a pair but the pot odds act as back up if I'm horribly wrong so make it a much easier call.

OK buddy, well we're seeing things differently again.

You may think you look like the big stack who wont pass to a shove and that's kinda intimidating to those acting behind, but hey, you're calling with K-J, so who's gonna care you might call their 3-bet shove? If I'm sitting behind you and figure this is how you play I can auto-lower my 3-bet jam range and wont mind you calling one bit, in fact I hope you WILL call me with those sort of hands. The 17bb stacks you mention are gonna be looking to move upwards pretty soon so they will ALL lower their 3-bet jam range vs you hoping to get a full double through vs the loose big stack. So it's a much more exploitable image imo cos the threat you may call with K-J is no threat at all. Like I said you'll find A-x and pairs jamming whenever you open. And there's only so many times you can get your chips in behind. On the other hand I don't think folding a button raise makes you look so bad when you've got 130k...not raising the button at all would prob make you look worse.

Also guys we can't give credibility to the assumption the bb jams 50% of the time, that's a crazy thing to say when you've just sat down.

scenario 1
if you have a large stack i'd prefer to take/steal chips from the larger stacks -  keep short stacks around until you can take enough chips from the larger stacks so they will not be a threat to you.Especially if the short stack/stacks are to your left.

scenario 2
get those chips in.

Good input mate and taken on board.

Wouldn't the game be boring if nobody saw things differently.

I agree about the assumption of BB shoving. That would be silly given that we've just sat down and he doesn't know who we are or how we play.

If it's true then I think we should call. If we forget this assumption then a pass is fine.

My preferred play for the whole hand against an unknown would be smaller raise then pass when he shoves. Given what Chris has said though and his pf play I still go for call in his position.

So we're not completely disagreeing.  ;)

haha so true.


But srsly
Hand 1. Open less, 8k is fine. Have a plan on what u wna do before doing anything.

Hand 2, get it in.

Peope haven't said how many fist pumps they get it in with in the second hand. As played I recommend at least three.

I really appreciate all the input on this thread as this is one area of my internet MTT game where I am constantly scratching my head.

it was really annoying as I must have moved tables 6 times in an hour and had to play with little info.

I still do not agree with the youv'e got AK get it all in.

Have any of you given thought as to what hand the villan has here and if so what hand do you put him on?

 

FYP

Well look, you don't have to put him on a hand cos there's only 2 hands you don't want to see. With A-A or K-K and 30k in the pot he can easily jam or smooth call because either play is a much better disguise than click-raising with these hands. Min raising is designed to look like a monster so it's less likely he has one imo. With the blinds this big your range doesn't need to be premium UTG so you could get action...and hey presto you have.

[X} min 3 bet Chris Bruce whenever he raises from EP

made me lol

chris - see the live game post from today  - there is a kinda similar hand where someone is getting 6:1 and he folds AJ - convinced the guy has AA! He has A10!

even if he has KK - you will still have about 28% equity