What would a Shrewdie do?

[gatso]

what would a shrewdie do?

probs get their chips in, lose a 50/50, moan about how shit their life is, threaten whoever owns boss with a greasefire and then lock rich in a cupboard

[Royal Flush]

what would a shrewdie do?

probs get their chips in, lose a 50/50, moan about how shit their life is, threaten whoever owns boss with a greasefire and then lock rich in a cupboard

A shrewdie wouldn't play on boss in the first place....

[EvilPie]

I am probably contradicting myself here but the reason I raise with AK as oppose to an open shove is because I am hoping for a reraise from a hand I have dominated. i.e. A Q / A J

Even with that said I still think it was a good pass..........I think I might be in the minority here

The reason you don't shove is to induce a raise and when that raise comes you fold. Yep.

EvilPie, I don't think the K-J is just about the pot odds, although I think the chances you're dominated alone would be enough for me to fold this. It's just win or lose the other players will see you land at the table and immediately get 50k in with K-J. This means you'll get tagged as spewy and prob face jams from A-x or pairs anytime you open and means you'll have lost control of the table....so you'll have to nit up and wait for a hand...which isn't playing to the strength of the big stack. I think that's more of a mistake than calling in isolation....which is still a mistake imo.

Is this a major problem when the average stack is 17 bbs?

Do you get tagged as spewy for calling? I think you're more likely to get tagged as the big stack who doesn't raise with the intention of passing to a shove. If someone wants to shove over the top of one of your raises they are likely to get looked up. Seems less exploitable to me. Passing here means we have to nit up even more as people know they can get us to fold by shoving atc. Obviously this all goes tits up if we call and lose because we're no longer the big stack. Call and win however and the table is ours for the taking.

I agree it's definitely not about pot odds. If you know 100% that you're dominated then it's a pass.

However Chris has already said that he expected to get shoved on. This doesn't mean that he expects someone to have him dominated as he can't know that they'll have better cards than him.

The pot odds in this situation just helps if you happen to be in bad spot. I would expect to be ahead here or racing against a pair but the pot odds act as back up if I'm horribly wrong so make it a much easier call.

[MANTIS01]

I am probably contradicting myself here but the reason I raise with AK as oppose to an open shove is because I am hoping for a reraise from a hand I have dominated. i.e. A Q / A J

Even with that said I still think it was a good pass..........I think I might be in the minority here

The reason you don't shove is to induce a raise and when that raise comes you fold. Yep.

EvilPie, I don't think the K-J is just about the pot odds, although I think the chances you're dominated alone would be enough for me to fold this. It's just win or lose the other players will see you land at the table and immediately get 50k in with K-J. This means you'll get tagged as spewy and prob face jams from A-x or pairs anytime you open and means you'll have lost control of the table....so you'll have to nit up and wait for a hand...which isn't playing to the strength of the big stack. I think that's more of a mistake than calling in isolation....which is still a mistake imo.

Is this a major problem when the average stack is 17 bbs?

Do you get tagged as spewy for calling? I think you're more likely to get tagged as the big stack who doesn't raise with the intention of passing to a shove. If someone wants to shove over the top of one of your raises they are likely to get looked up. Seems less exploitable to me. Passing here means we have to nit up even more as people know they can get us to fold by shoving atc. Obviously this all goes tits up if we call and lose because we're no longer the big stack. Call and win however and the table is ours for the taking.

I agree it's definitely not about pot odds. If you know 100% that you're dominated then it's a pass.

However Chris has already said that he expected to get shoved on. This doesn't mean that he expects someone to have him dominated as he can't know that they'll have better cards than him.

The pot odds in this situation just helps if you happen to be in bad spot. I would expect to be ahead here or racing against a pair but the pot odds act as back up if I'm horribly wrong so make it a much easier call.

OK buddy, well we're seeing things differently again.

You may think you look like the big stack who wont pass to a shove and that's kinda intimidating to those acting behind, but hey, you're calling with K-J, so who's gonna care you might call their 3-bet shove? If I'm sitting behind you and figure this is how you play I can auto-lower my 3-bet jam range and wont mind you calling one bit, in fact I hope you WILL call me with those sort of hands. The 17bb stacks you mention are gonna be looking to move upwards pretty soon so they will ALL lower their 3-bet jam range vs you hoping to get a full double through vs the loose big stack. So it's a much more exploitable image imo cos the threat you may call with K-J is no threat at all. Like I said you'll find A-x and pairs jamming whenever you open. And there's only so many times you can get your chips in behind. On the other hand I don't think folding a button raise makes you look so bad when you've got 130k...not raising the button at all would prob make you look worse.

Also guys we can't give credibility to the assumption the bb jams 50% of the time, that's a crazy thing to say when you've just sat down.

[noble1]

scenario 1
if you have a large stack i'd prefer to take/steal chips from the larger stacks -  keep short stacks around until you can take enough chips from the larger stacks so they will not be a threat to you.Especially if the short stack/stacks are to your left.

scenario 2
get those chips in.

[EvilPie]

I am probably contradicting myself here but the reason I raise with AK as oppose to an open shove is because I am hoping for a reraise from a hand I have dominated. i.e. A Q / A J

Even with that said I still think it was a good pass..........I think I might be in the minority here

The reason you don't shove is to induce a raise and when that raise comes you fold. Yep.

EvilPie, I don't think the K-J is just about the pot odds, although I think the chances you're dominated alone would be enough for me to fold this. It's just win or lose the other players will see you land at the table and immediately get 50k in with K-J. This means you'll get tagged as spewy and prob face jams from A-x or pairs anytime you open and means you'll have lost control of the table....so you'll have to nit up and wait for a hand...which isn't playing to the strength of the big stack. I think that's more of a mistake than calling in isolation....which is still a mistake imo.

Is this a major problem when the average stack is 17 bbs?

Do you get tagged as spewy for calling? I think you're more likely to get tagged as the big stack who doesn't raise with the intention of passing to a shove. If someone wants to shove over the top of one of your raises they are likely to get looked up. Seems less exploitable to me. Passing here means we have to nit up even more as people know they can get us to fold by shoving atc. Obviously this all goes tits up if we call and lose because we're no longer the big stack. Call and win however and the table is ours for the taking.

I agree it's definitely not about pot odds. If you know 100% that you're dominated then it's a pass.

However Chris has already said that he expected to get shoved on. This doesn't mean that he expects someone to have him dominated as he can't know that they'll have better cards than him.

The pot odds in this situation just helps if you happen to be in bad spot. I would expect to be ahead here or racing against a pair but the pot odds act as back up if I'm horribly wrong so make it a much easier call.

OK buddy, well we're seeing things differently again.

You may think you look like the big stack who wont pass to a shove and that's kinda intimidating to those acting behind, but hey, you're calling with K-J, so who's gonna care you might call their 3-bet shove? If I'm sitting behind you and figure this is how you play I can auto-lower my 3-bet jam range and wont mind you calling one bit, in fact I hope you WILL call me with those sort of hands. The 17bb stacks you mention are gonna be looking to move upwards pretty soon so they will ALL lower their 3-bet jam range vs you hoping to get a full double through vs the loose big stack. So it's a much more exploitable image imo cos the threat you may call with K-J is no threat at all. Like I said you'll find A-x and pairs jamming whenever you open. And there's only so many times you can get your chips in behind. On the other hand I don't think folding a button raise makes you look so bad when you've got 130k...not raising the button at all would prob make you look worse.

Also guys we can't give credibility to the assumption the bb jams 50% of the time, that's a crazy thing to say when you've just sat down.

Good input mate and taken on board.

Wouldn't the game be boring if nobody saw things differently.

I agree about the assumption of BB shoving. That would be silly given that we've just sat down and he doesn't know who we are or how we play.

If it's true then I think we should call. If we forget this assumption then a pass is fine.

My preferred play for the whole hand against an unknown would be smaller raise then pass when he shoves. Given what Chris has said though and his pf play I still go for call in his position.

So we're not completely disagreeing. 

[ChipRich]

what would a shrewdie do?

probs get their chips in, lose a 50/50, moan about how shit their life is, threaten whoever owns boss with a greasefire and then lock rich in a cupboard

haha so true.


But srsly
Hand 1. Open less, 8k is fine. Have a plan on what u wna do before doing anything.

Hand 2, get it in.

[NoflopsHomer]

Peope haven't said how many fist pumps they get it in with in the second hand. As played I recommend at least three.

[chrisbruce]

I really appreciate all the input on this thread as this is one area of my internet MTT game where I am constantly scratching my head.

it was really annoying as I must have moved tables 6 times in an hour and had to play with little info.

I still do not agree with the youv'e got AK get it all in.

Have any of you given thought as to what hand the villan has here and if so what hand do you put him on?

 

[Royal Flush]

I really appreciate all the input on this thread as this is one area of my internet MTT game where I am constantly scratching my head.

it was really annoying as I must have moved tables 6 times in an hour and had to play with little info.

I still do not agree with the youv'e got AK get it all in.

Have any of you given thought as to what hand the villan has here and if so what hand do you put him on?

 

FYP

[MANTIS01]

I really appreciate all the input on this thread as this is one area of my internet MTT game where I am constantly scratching my head.

it was really annoying as I must have moved tables 6 times in an hour and had to play with little info.

I still do not agree with the youv'e got AK get it all in.

Have any of you given thought as to what hand the villan has here and if so what hand do you put him on?

Well look, you don't have to put him on a hand cos there's only 2 hands you don't want to see. With A-A or K-K and 30k in the pot he can easily jam or smooth call because either play is a much better disguise than click-raising with these hands. Min raising is designed to look like a monster so it's less likely he has one imo. With the blinds this big your range doesn't need to be premium UTG so you could get action...and hey presto you have.

[George2Loose]

I really appreciate all the input on this thread as this is one area of my internet MTT game where I am constantly scratching my head.

it was really annoying as I must have moved tables 6 times in an hour and had to play with little info.

I still do not agree with the youv'e got AK get it all in.

Have any of you given thought as to what hand the villan has here and if so what hand do you put him on?

Well look, you don't have to put him on a hand cos there's only 2 hands you don't want to see. With A-A or K-K and 30k in the pot he can easily jam or smooth call because either play is a much better disguise than click-raising with these hands. Min raising is designed to look like a monster so it's less likely he has one imo. With the blinds this big your range doesn't need to be premium UTG so you could get action...and hey presto you have.

[X} min 3 bet Chris Bruce whenever he raises from EP

[outragous76]

I really appreciate all the input on this thread as this is one area of my internet MTT game where I am constantly scratching my head.

it was really annoying as I must have moved tables 6 times in an hour and had to play with little info.

I still do not agree with the youv'e got AK get it all in.

Have any of you given thought as to what hand the villan has here and if so what hand do you put him on?

Well look, you don't have to put him on a hand cos there's only 2 hands you don't want to see. With A-A or K-K and 30k in the pot he can easily jam or smooth call because either play is a much better disguise than click-raising with these hands. Min raising is designed to look like a monster so it's less likely he has one imo. With the blinds this big your range doesn't need to be premium UTG so you could get action...and hey presto you have.

[X} min 3 bet Chris Bruce whenever he raises from EP

made me lol

chris - see the live game post from today  - there is a kinda similar hand where someone is getting 6:1 and he folds AJ - convinced the guy has AA! He has A10!

even if he has KK - you will still have about 28% equity