|
Title: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: MC on June 07, 2009, 11:30:34 AM Got what I consider to be a shocking ruling last night at DTD. I've complained to several blondes about it already...Blatchley, Greekstein, EvilPie and Stu Hopkin all had a good chuckle at my expense when I told them about this...
In a hand last night, there was a limped pot with 5 players and I checked my option in the big blind. The flop came down and the under the gun limper bet out. What I thought happened was that everyone folded, and as I mucked I flashed my cards to just show I had a terrible hand. Actually though,one player had called the bet. I apologised immediately, and they played the hand out. Neither of them complained and it didn't affect the hand in question. Admittedly it was a dumb mistake, but no-one seemed to think too much of it. However the tournament director happened to be loitering nearby, and he came over just straight out gave me a penalty where I had to sit out (with my blinds and antes being taken) for one round of the table. At 300/600 (100) with a stack of like 11k this wasn't a great time for this to happen. I've never seen anyone given a penalty ever, and etiquette faux pas like this happen fairly often in my experience. Not to be given some kind of warning first baffles me! How high does this rate on your ridiculouslyharsh-o-meter??! Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: REALDEAL on June 07, 2009, 11:35:40 AM If i remember right you did several similar actions in the Main Event,sort that concentration out imo. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: MC on June 07, 2009, 11:38:53 AM If i remember right you did several similar actions in the Main Event,sort that concentration out imo. Lol, when? You're right to be fair, it's my own fault, but still such a harsh ruling imo Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: Eck on June 07, 2009, 12:05:28 PM Pretty daft imo nearly at ASA's level however not as daft as hoping to get sympathy from that bunch..
Blatchley, Greekstein, EvilPie and Stu Hopkin all had a good chuckle at my expense when I told them about this... Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: celtic on June 07, 2009, 12:09:38 PM Take MC out to the car park and make him wear a Asa Mcgrath face mask?
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: Eck on June 07, 2009, 12:10:46 PM Take MC out to the car park and make him wear a Asa Mcgrath face mask? Incredibly harsh imo but if the cap fits.... Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: GreekStein on June 07, 2009, 01:48:25 PM It was com though!
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: Ironside on June 07, 2009, 06:15:43 PM last years wsope they announced at start anyone exposing there cards with action still to play will have hand folded and sit out for 1 orbit
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: relaedgc on June 08, 2009, 06:56:52 AM Seems reasonable enough if they actually enforce it on all such incidents.
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: kim2388 on June 08, 2009, 07:19:15 AM I was in the hand and I was the guy who called the limpers raise I was nut flushing and hit it on the turn you flashing ya cards made no difference to me or the other guy.In fact neither of us saw your cards anyway and I had already called his bet.Nobody on the table was bothered it was a genuine mistake and u apologised like 5 times.It was seriously harsh to say the least bit out of order I reckon as it was genuine mistake.
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: DBC2007 on June 08, 2009, 08:43:20 AM very harsh. guy sounds like a prick and that power has went to his head. id prob tell him to go f**k himself and end up getting barred from the club
if you take the penalty then it means he has won Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: kenjude on June 08, 2009, 10:56:34 AM "prick" and "power crazy" are not exactly phrases that spring to mind when thinking about DtD staff.
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: The_nun on June 08, 2009, 11:01:10 AM "prick" and "power crazy" are not exactly phrases that spring to mind when thinking about DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/) staff. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: Jon MW on June 08, 2009, 11:02:21 AM very harsh. guy sounds like a prick and that power has went to his head. id prob tell him to go f**k himself and end up getting barred from the club if you take the penalty then it means he has won lol and if you kick off about it and end up getting barred that means you've won, obv. It was a bit harsh, but meh - could be worse. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: TightEnd on June 08, 2009, 11:06:22 AM if you take the penalty then it means he has won By entering the tournament you accept that it's being run by a TD employed by the venue. When a TD makes that decision you have to accept it and move on whether you agree with it or not. That's how tournament poker works. The notion that its a competition between TD and player with one winning and one losing is laughable, before even considering yopur other ill informed personal comments towards the TD Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: pokerfan on June 08, 2009, 11:09:07 AM if you take the penalty then it means he has won By entering the tournament you accept that it's being run by a TD employed by the venue. When a TD makes that decision you have to accept it and move on whether you agree with it or not. That's how tournament poker works. The notion that its a competition between TD and player with one winning and one losing is laughable, before even considering yopur other ill informed personal comments towards the TD Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: The Camel on June 08, 2009, 11:17:03 AM Correct ruling imo.
The fact the cards didn't make any difference on this occasion isn't really the point. It *could* have made a huge difference to the outcome of the pot. And for sure, you and noone else at this table will be showing cards in the future. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: del on June 08, 2009, 11:28:17 AM very harsh. guy sounds like a prick and that power has went to his head. id prob tell him to go f**k himself and end up getting barred from the club if you take the penalty then it means he has won Just for the record neither Dave the TD in question or anyother staff employed at DTD are Prick's, but hard working individuals that have a difficult job maintaining the very high standards that the players have come to expect. Its always easy to pull down the staff when a ruling does not go in your favour, but comments like this piss me right off! Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: sovietsong on June 08, 2009, 12:36:20 PM never really understood people showing other people there hand, you had rags, so what? I used to play at napolians in leeds and everybody showed each other their hands all the time, nothing was done about it, about time a venue took the rules of the game seriously.
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: MC on June 08, 2009, 12:48:36 PM Yeah soviet, you're right, it is pretty pointless tbh.
Obviously I took the punishment from the TD, but I told him how harsh I thought it was etc, had nothing against him personally... If a few people on here think it's a fair punishment then perhaps it's less harsh than I thought at the time. Thanks for coming on the forum to post that kim :) but I guess Keith's point that it could have affected the hand applies. Ah well, I'm sure it will decrease my live etiquette mistakes from now on! Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: Woodsey on June 08, 2009, 12:50:46 PM Lets just be thankful that we have a venue that even bother to enforce the rules. Can't tell you how many places I've played that are too weak or too scared to even try..........
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: GreekStein on June 08, 2009, 01:00:12 PM Well I'm just gonna do the lobster dance ;nipnip; ;nipnip; ;nipnip; ;nipnip; ;nipnip; ;nipnip; ;nipnip;
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: tikay on June 08, 2009, 03:00:38 PM Lets just be thankful that we have a venue that even bother to enforce the rules. Can't tell you how many places I've played that are too weak or too scared to even try.......... Absolutely that. We want & need Rules to be enforced. When they are, it's no good moaning. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: tikay on June 08, 2009, 03:01:52 PM Got what I consider to be a shocking ruling last night at DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/). I've complained to several blondes about it already...Blatchley, Greekstein, EvilPie and Stu Hopkin all had a good chuckle at my expense when I told them about this... In a hand last night, there was a limped pot with 5 players and I checked my option in the big blind. The flop came down and the under the gun limper bet out. What I thought happened was that everyone folded, and as I mucked I flashed my cards to just show I had a terrible hand. Actually though,one player had called the bet. I apologised immediately, and they played the hand out. Neither of them complained and it didn't affect the hand in question. Admittedly it was a dumb mistake, but no-one seemed to think too much of it. However the tournament director happened to be loitering nearby, and he came over just straight out gave me a penalty where I had to sit out (with my blinds and antes being taken) for one round of the table. At 300/600 (100) with a stack of like 11k this wasn't a great time for this to happen. I've never seen anyone given a penalty ever, and etiquette faux pas like this happen fairly often in my experience. Not to be given some kind of warning first baffles me! How high does this rate on your ridiculouslyharsh-o-meter??! It does not rate on the Harsh-O-Meter James. It's a standard & correct Ruling. It may seem a little harsh, but consider this...... Will you do it agan? Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: Acidmouse on June 08, 2009, 03:10:08 PM If i remember right you did several similar actions in the Main Event,sort that concentration out imo. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: EvilPie on June 08, 2009, 03:12:51 PM I think it's incredibly harsh for one reason only.
I've seen it done many other times at DTD and not be enforced. Other rules often not enforced are the mobile phone rule and the passing out of turn rule. The passing out of turn is usually someone in late position who checks their cards then stands up and leaves the table. If the TD sees it then yes it will be enforced but the dealers often do nothing. This is the one and only gripe I have about DTD. Some of the dealers just don't seem bothered about the little rules and often seem scared to enforce them because they don't want to upset anybody. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: tikay on June 08, 2009, 03:16:32 PM I think it's incredibly harsh for one reason only. I've seen it done many other times at DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/) and not be enforced. Other rules often not enforced are the mobile phone rule and the passing out of turn rule. The passing out of turn is usually someone in late position who checks their cards then stands up and leaves the table. If the TD sees it then yes it will be enforced but the dealers often do nothing. This is the one and only gripe I have about DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/). Some of the dealers just don't seem bothered about the little rules and often seem scared to enforce them because they don't want to upset anybody. I hear you Matt, but that's not a reason not to enforce, rather, the opposite. I agree as to consistency of enforcement, but knowing DTD, they'll read this Thread, & in tomorrow's weekly Meeting, & tighten up on the consistency. I need to speak to you, by the way, on a personal matter Matt - when can I ring you? Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: Claw75 on June 08, 2009, 03:18:04 PM I need to speak to you, by the way, on a personal matter Matt - when can I ring you? he'll be washing his, erm, hair. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: GreekStein on June 08, 2009, 03:23:22 PM If you need someone sorting out Tikay, don't bother with Matt, give me a call.
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: EvilPie on June 08, 2009, 03:25:55 PM I think it's incredibly harsh for one reason only. I've seen it done many other times at DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/) and not be enforced. Other rules often not enforced are the mobile phone rule and the passing out of turn rule. The passing out of turn is usually someone in late position who checks their cards then stands up and leaves the table. If the TD sees it then yes it will be enforced but the dealers often do nothing. This is the one and only gripe I have about DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/). Some of the dealers just don't seem bothered about the little rules and often seem scared to enforce them because they don't want to upset anybody. I hear you Matt, but that's not a reason not to enforce, rather, the opposite. I agree as to consistency of enforcement, but knowing DT (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/)D (http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/), they'll read this Thread, & in tomorrow's weekly Meeting, & tighten up on the consistency. I need to speak to you, by the way, on a personal matter Matt - when can I ring you? Any time after 4.30 mate. I agree about the consistency thing. I wish every rule was enforced every time without fail. That way within a few weeks all the players would know that the club was strict and would stop doing all the naughty things. This consistency needs to be even stricter in the festival/deepstack weekends. The club brings in a lot of outside dealers who must be made to enforce the rules in exactly the same way. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: kinboshi on June 08, 2009, 03:30:47 PM If you need someone sorting out Tikay, don't bother with Matt, give me a call. I did LOL at this. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: EvilPie on June 08, 2009, 03:54:44 PM very harsh. guy sounds like a prick and that power has went to his head. id prob tell him to go f**k himself and end up getting barred from the club if you take the penalty then it means he has won rotflmfao Of course you would. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: ScottMGee on June 08, 2009, 05:54:11 PM Quote This consistency needs to be even stricter in the festival/deepstack weekends. The club brings in a lot of outside dealers who must be made to enforce the rules in exactly the same way I am in two minds about the need for strict rules, on one hand it ensure consistency on the other hand it can be almost petty. Playing in a 50p/£1 cash game recently the UTG drops a single £5 chip over line and a fraction of a second later announces raise. Now I was next to act and hadn't acted yet, however the dealer ruled the UTG action as a call as the chip hit the felt before the player announced raise. Whilst this might be technically correct the time difference was miniscule and player was a relatively new player and enforcing the rule seemed to me to serve no purpose for that specific incident. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: Woodsey on June 08, 2009, 05:58:05 PM Quote This consistency needs to be even stricter in the festival/deepstack weekends. The club brings in a lot of outside dealers who must be made to enforce the rules in exactly the same way I am in two minds about the need for strict rules, on one hand it ensure consistency on the other hand it can be almost petty. Playing in a 50p/£1 cash game recently the UTG drops a single £5 chip over line and a fraction of a second later announces raise. Now I was next to act and hadn't acted yet, however the dealer ruled the UTG action as a call as the chip hit the felt before the player announced raise. Whilst this might be technically correct the time difference was miniscule and player was a relatively new player and enforcing the rule seemed to me to serve no purpose for that specific incident. Sorry dude, but that is 100% correct. The problem is if you don't penalise the small infringements where do you stop, 1 secs, 2 secs, 5 secs after? People have to learn the rules and once they know they probably won't do it a second time. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: gatso on June 08, 2009, 06:04:37 PM Quote This consistency needs to be even stricter in the festival/deepstack weekends. The club brings in a lot of outside dealers who must be made to enforce the rules in exactly the same way I am in two minds about the need for strict rules, on one hand it ensure consistency on the other hand it can be almost petty. Playing in a 50p/£1 cash game recently the UTG drops a single £5 chip over line and a fraction of a second later announces raise. Now I was next to act and hadn't acted yet, however the dealer ruled the UTG action as a call as the chip hit the felt before the player announced raise. Whilst this might be technically correct the time difference was miniscule and player was a relatively new player and enforcing the rule seemed to me to serve no purpose for that specific incident. I would be quite concerned if I was playing at a venue that didn't enforce that rule. they'd be opening the door for all sorts of angle shooting and if they're going to ignore the most basic rules what are they going to do with the others? Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: ScottMGee on June 08, 2009, 06:06:53 PM Quote Sorry dude, but that is 100% correct. The problem is if you don't penalise the small infringements where do you stop, 1 secs, 2 secs, 5 secs after? People have to learn the rules and once they know they probably won't do it a second time We were talking within the second - I would have thought an explanation of the rule would have been sufficient. I definitely agreed about the consistency thing, playing in the tournament one night I had the same situation happen to me twice with different rulings. I raise in mid position, SB doesn't notice and calls. 1st time this happened the dealer rules than the 50 chips (difference between SB and BB) had to stay in the pot. 2nd time (different player and different dealer) the dealer ruled the player could have 200 chips back (blinds 200/400) and was simply warned. This was sometime ago, but I was annoyed the 200 chips were returned but didn't want to make a big deal of it. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: Woodsey on June 08, 2009, 06:10:12 PM Quote Sorry dude, but that is 100% correct. The problem is if you don't penalise the small infringements where do you stop, 1 secs, 2 secs, 5 secs after? People have to learn the rules and once they know they probably won't do it a second time We were talking within the second - I would have thought an explanation of the rule would have been sufficient. I definitely agreed about the consistency thing, playing in the tournament one night I had the same situation happen to me twice with different rulings. I raise in mid position, SB doesn't notice and calls. 1st time this happened the dealer rules than the 50 chips (difference between SB and BB) had to stay in the pot. 2nd time (different player and different dealer) the dealer ruled the player could have 200 chips back (blinds 200/400) and was simply warned. This was sometime ago, but I was annoyed the 200 chips were returned but didn't want to make a big deal of it. Call the floor they would have corrected it, it was probably one of the outside dealers that comes in the for weekend that made the mistake. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: dik9 on June 08, 2009, 07:26:04 PM Quote Sorry dude, but that is 100% correct. The problem is if you don't penalise the small infringements where do you stop, 1 secs, 2 secs, 5 secs after? People have to learn the rules and once they know they probably won't do it a second time We were talking within the second - I would have thought an explanation of the rule would have been sufficient. I definitely agreed about the consistency thing, playing in the tournament one night I had the same situation happen to me twice with different rulings. I raise in mid position, SB doesn't notice and calls. 1st time this happened the dealer rules than the 50 chips (difference between SB and BB) had to stay in the pot. 2nd time (different player and different dealer) the dealer ruled the player could have 200 chips back (blinds 200/400) and was simply warned. This was sometime ago, but I was annoyed the 200 chips were returned but didn't want to make a big deal of it. I made a terrible ruling whilst giving the £150 supe a break yesterday, and put it down to a brain fart, and was thinking of a completely different rule. Blinds 300/600 UTG went all-in for 5000+, folded round to the button, who put 1700 in without saying anything (didn't see the all-in). If he had said raise, I would have made him raise the all-in, if he said call, I would of made him call, but not saying anything must have thrown me for a bit lol. Anyway, I made a bad rule that he could take it back, as for some reason I was thinking of a 50% rule DUH!! Two players, asked me to check the rules with the Dave which I did, turned out my brain fart was more like diarrhea. Of course the ruling is the 1700 must stay in pot and the player has the option of making it up or forfeiting the chips, confirmed by Yogi and Mark after, don't know what I was thinking :) I apologised the hand after to the players and the table and told them i had made the wrong ruling ;booboo; but won't make that mistake again, the player it effected the most, was very gracious about it. TY if you read this. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: tikay on June 08, 2009, 07:29:25 PM Quote Sorry dude, but that is 100% correct. The problem is if you don't penalise the small infringements where do you stop, 1 secs, 2 secs, 5 secs after? People have to learn the rules and once they know they probably won't do it a second time We were talking within the second - I would have thought an explanation of the rule would have been sufficient. I definitely agreed about the consistency thing, playing in the tournament one night I had the same situation happen to me twice with different rulings. I raise in mid position, SB doesn't notice and calls. 1st time this happened the dealer rules than the 50 chips (difference between SB and BB) had to stay in the pot. 2nd time (different player and different dealer) the dealer ruled the player could have 200 chips back (blinds 200/400) and was simply warned. This was sometime ago, but I was annoyed the 200 chips were returned but didn't want to make a big deal of it. I made a terrible ruling whilst giving the £150 supe a break yesterday, and put it down to a brain fart, and was thinking of a completely different rule. Blinds 300/600 UTG went all-in for 5000+, folded round to the button, who put 1700 in without saying anything (didn't see the all-in). If he had said raise, I would have made him raise the all-in, if he said call, I would of made him call, but not saying anything must have thrown me for a bit lol. Anyway, I made a bad rule that he could take it back, as for some reason I was thinking of a 50% rule DUH!! Two players, asked me to check the rules with the Dave which I did, turned out my brain fart was more like diarrhea. Of course the ruling is the 1700 must stay in pot and the player has the option of making it up or forfeiting the chips, confirmed by Yogi and Mark after, don't know what I was thinking :) I apologised the hand after to the players and the table and told them i had made the wrong ruling ;booboo; but won't make that mistake again, the player it effected the most, was very gracious about it. TY if you read this. So it's not just players that make mistakes? Fair play to you Rich for fessing up. Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: gatso on June 08, 2009, 07:33:10 PM don't let that dbc fella read that post dik. he'd call you a prick and tell you to gfy if you made a correct ruling, god only knows what he's going to do if he finds out you've made a mistake
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: dik9 on June 08, 2009, 07:39:46 PM PMSL - takes allsorts
Title: Re: DTD Ruling as;dfhdsfdbanfdsb Post by: I KNOW IT on June 08, 2009, 07:41:15 PM Quote Sorry dude, but that is 100% correct. The problem is if you don't penalise the small infringements where do you stop, 1 secs, 2 secs, 5 secs after? People have to learn the rules and once they know they probably won't do it a second time We were talking within the second - I would have thought an explanation of the rule would have been sufficient. I definitely agreed about the consistency thing, playing in the tournament one night I had the same situation happen to me twice with different rulings. I raise in mid position, SB doesn't notice and calls. 1st time this happened the dealer rules than the 50 chips (difference between SB and BB) had to stay in the pot. 2nd time (different player and different dealer) the dealer ruled the player could have 200 chips back (blinds 200/400) and was simply warned. This was sometime ago, but I was annoyed the 200 chips were returned but didn't want to make a big deal of it. I made a terrible ruling whilst giving the £150 supe a break yesterday, and put it down to a brain fart, and was thinking of a completely different rule. Blinds 300/600 UTG went all-in for 5000+, folded round to the button, who put 1700 in without saying anything (didn't see the all-in). If he had said raise, I would have made him raise the all-in, if he said call, I would of made him call, but not saying anything must have thrown me for a bit lol. Anyway, I made a bad rule that he could take it back, as for some reason I was thinking of a 50% rule DUH!! Two players, asked me to check the rules with the Dave which I did, turned out my brain fart was more like diarrhea. Of course the ruling is the 1700 must stay in pot and the player has the option of making it up or forfeiting the chips, confirmed by Yogi and Mark after, don't know what I was thinking :) I apologised the hand after to the players and the table and told them i had made the wrong ruling ;booboo; but won't make that mistake again, the player it effected the most, was very gracious about it. TY if you read this. So it's not just players that make mistakes? Fair play to you Rich for fessing up. |