blonde poker forum

Had a really good hand at DTD and want a few opinions from the "cash" experts on here.

General background, we have one idiot at the table who has min raised twice already with A10 and AJ and got there both times.  I reload for £2k trying to look like on tilt with view of playing agressivley.  Also on table is Cos aka Greekstein sat with £1600 (reloaded when he saw my reload) and Vargas sat with 800.   Vargas is incredibly loose tez player and will call / raise with absolutly anything.  Idiot kid who is hitting everything who never played live before is sat with 800 odd.

Last 20 mins Vargas has raised blind to £20 every hand and is chasing the £2k that he is down.

So the hand: -

Idiot limps UTG knowing Vargas is going to raise.

Cos raises to £12 from the cut off.  Cos may say different but he opens a lot, especially in position with a wide range of hands.  Vargas raises on button blind to £25.  I always watch Vargas to make sure he is blind and this time he was.  Vargas is on the button and I look down at  Ahrt Ks, whats my play?

Considering we are so deep, in the small blind and that we have an UTG limper knowing it will get raised and knowing Cos has the option of re raising should I be flatting or defining my hand?

I flatted as didnt want to play the hand this deep OOP and wanted more info on UTG and Cos.

UTG folds and Cos calls.

Flop is  2h 5h 9h

Should I lead? Check?

I checked and cos checks, Vargas bets 50.  I call and cos raises to £125, Vargas folds.  My play???

Should I re raise especially as we have such an under repped hand?  If I flat is my hand face up?

I flatted.  Turns brings  Kd.

Should I lead?

I checked, cos bets £225 - should I shove?

I call and river is  2s

Whats my action?

General views throughout would be nice please.

Cos doesn't say different!

Few things though.

I think I raised to £165 on the flop as I seem to remember it being £115 more.

On the turn I think I bet £265

Loads of questions so thought i'd break this up a bit,oh and ain't a cash "expert" but will throw my 2 pennies worth in anyway

Idiot limps UTG knowing Vargas is going to raise.

Since he's an "idiot" when he limps he most likely hasn't even thought about the fact that it'll get raised so i wouldn't let him effect my decision on how to play the hand pre,i like the flat oop though this deep since although i've never played with him i believe the old guy in the cutoff is a decent player so don't want to put yourself in a shit spot if the flop misses you totally.

Should I lead? Check?

I would lead the flop here, esp against 2 players with wider ranges.I'm doing this with the intention of just calling a raise i don't really like the idea of re-raising here since your only on a flush draw and getting it in here so deep is pretty spewy.I think playing it this way still underreps your hand as well imo whereas the line you have took i'm 99% certain that you have Ahx

If you lead then cos may play his hand differently as your lead would look a lot stronger than vargas' raise thus keeping the pot smaller and you not committing yourself on just a draw.Also i'm more sure by leading and cos raising that he's got a big hand whereas the way it's played it's still pretty difficult to narrow down ranges when coz could just be at it since you've shown weakness and vargas is "tez"

If I flat is my hand face up?

Already kinda mentioned this but yeah imo by the turn as you've played it am pretty certain that your just on a flush draw

I flatted.  Turns brings  .

The turn is pretty much heaven,i hate check shoving as he ain't guna call you with anything you can beat and your losing value agianst hands you do,c/c is ok as if he has 10's-Q's our opp would most likely expect to still have the best hand.I think check calling is the best line for us here as our hand now looks totally just a flush draw as played so most likely opp's gonna vb most rivers thinking he's good if he has 9x or 1010+ and we can snap it off.

Whats my action?

C/c would be my line on this river for reasons said above.Also don't want to be in a spot we're we have to call a shove on the river with just tptk

This is an interesting hand and look forward to others opinions on it as well as on my analysis

PS I just woke up and am pretty jet lagged so reserve the right to accuse someone of hacking into my account and that i never wrote any of that rubbush  ;D

i dont play this high or deep so bear with me. I would stick in a re re raise pre as if cos is raising as wide as u say and the other guy re raising blind u are miles ahead with ur hand and are taking the initiative in the hand eventhough you are OOP.  On the flop i would lead for about 2/3 pot.

I think like mon said ur hand is pretty much face up on the turn... with the small re raise on the flop i think greekstein has  something like Jh Qh  or  Jh Th... duno if he is sick enough to be bluffing or barreling with the bare Kh

What are the blinds here £1/£2 or £2/£5?

Raise of £12 pre, I'd say it was £1/2 blinds.

Yes it's £1/2, me and Neil are just sitting so deep cos Mr Vargas has spewed so hard in the hour before that even the terrible fish have accumulated £600+ stacks from mr V so it was probably beneficial to have them well covered.

Why put yourself in a tough spot by 4betting pre oop so deep with AK i don't see any benefit to doing this,the fact that they are so deep means cos will most likely call with pos no matter what he has.We are never really miles ahead against anything when we have AK vs 2 opp's,doubt they both have Ax

From reading cos' post think the raise (it wasnt a rr) was more than blatch said and was just a norm bet size, his range is a lot wider than just having a flush here;he cud have A9,Kh9,99,55,22,1010+ (with a heart),67h,78h,or just complete air since blatch doesn't seem strong and the other guys pretty tez

FYP

Cos, you'll have to come up to DTD this weekend now to sort Matt out.

Oh my god Matt is in so much physical danger he doesn't even understand. Obv Blatch is a big poof and won't do anything but I'm one hard ass jew lookalike 22-48 year old Greek Ninja and I'm gonna fuck him up.

Matt don't show your face at DTD this weekend if you still want to be recognised by it next week.

Weird how he knew though.

so Cos has  Aspades Ac then?

lol cos wouldnt play AA thats an open fold in his book, no fun

I'm not flatting a reraise with AA vs a donkey who can't bare not to see a flop....esp once Neil has flatted so that's one hand you can rule out.

lol. Fuck allaments imo.

He's not betting anything with any kind of showdown value.

 Js Qs

I had  Aspades 9d

I don't like your raise on the flop Greeky, personally I flat and see what happens on the turn. I'm not looking to put too much more money in this pot with this hand.

I prefer you 4bet pre Neil, but I don't mind a flat. I'd perhaps like to see a check raise on the flop. The turn check call is fine I think, and I'd be looking to do the same on the river...

greek what was ur thinkiing with this hand? esp the raise on flop? interested to hear ur thoughts.

I think it's fairly standard really but I'm off out now. Will post my thinking when I get back.

Pre flop im never raising.  Im too deep and Cos is (now) good enough to take the pot off me too easily if I miss.  I also dont want to create a huge pot OOP either.

The flat is pretty standard in my eyes pre.

On the flop I think Cos was raising V's range knowin top pair is generally huge, and top top is normally the nuts against him.  Cos also knows my calling range is incredibly wider against V and therefore my call on the flop looks weak.  Once the King come son the turn im pretty certain im winning, from a combination of the bet, his reaction and body language I was considering check raising but again OOP and for pot control im happy to check call and probably check call any better on the river, assuming a non heart comes.

With the size of your stacks, the vulnerability of your hand (you're unlikely to win a big pot with it, but you couls certainly lose one), and the fact you're OOP - isn't this hand all about pot control?

I rarely play anything close to this deep, but that's my take on this hand.

Another thing, don't you both want to be going after the other players at the table rather than trying to out-do each other? Easier targets means easier to win their money?

Just realised this is stupid as there are 2 bets so a flat is right obviously, but you should have been going for a check raise I think if just facing one bet...

does vargas always spew so much?

I make it £100 to go pre flop. Ideally that gets it heads up. If so I'm check raising the flop and poss shoving the turn. If it's still multi way I will be a bit more cautious about getting £2k in.

I still dont see any value in raising pre here OOP being so deep.

Cos want pass, Vargas certainly wont and the limper under the gun will only give me bad action.

why won't I pass?

£300 in the pot with AK or £75 in the pot with AK. I see some value here!

You say they aren't going to pass so lets not raise, hold on... we are in a lunatic game with a big hand, do we want them to pass? If I have AK in a mad game, I want everyone to be putting £100 in and not letting them see a cheap/free flop.

Its got nothign to do with that, Cos is a very competent player and can easily out play me when im OOP.

I dont want to be playing a huge with AK against him, especially when there are easy chips at the table.

Don't reload to 2k then.

500 bbs is more than enough if you don't want to playing huge pots.

Interesting point

Got no probs playing big pots, with or without Cos, just not with AK from the SB

So IS your 3 bettign range from the sb only AA, KK, QQ?

coz wtf is ur view on this hand cause it is melting my head how u can stack of with 'top top' against a donk and a gd player 50bb deep. I dont see why the Hero cant 5 ball AK everytime here and shove profit... u say coz is a gd player etc and u are oop etc but man u are taking control of the pot with the extra raise pre and Kudos to cos if he is gona be making high variance plays on certain flops/board textures etc... WHY  NOT 5BALL AND COZ WHAT IS UR REASONING?

(Matt- tbf when Neil reloaded to £2.5k he was essentially not able to play a pot putting more than about 500bbs in until I put more money on the table also).

A few people have asked for my thinking behind the way I played this. I actually think the hand is kinda standard on my part when we are playing this deep.

I'm opening wide as I always do in cash games in late position and I normally open more pots than anyone else at the table too but I was particularly keen to isolate Vargas whenever possible so could hav been raising a little more than normal.

When he reraised I knew he was blind but then Neil started cutting out ponies as though he was going to reraise. If he'd done so I wasn't calling with my hand as it plays horribly against Neil's reraising range in this spot though I guess I might call with a lot of suited connectors/one gappers and all pairs and make life as difficult as I could for Neil being OOP against me. I'm wise enough to know that Neil could just be doing this to slow me down a bit too.

I'm happy to call instead of 4-bet and play off a flop. We both check to Vargas as we are waiting for him to put more dead money into the pot which he duly does with his £50. Neil flats. Now the way you have to play Vargas is to get very sticky with any pair or piece of the board so I'm raising the flop for value against both Neil and Vargas's ranges. I know Neil will fold all underpairs and as much as the Q or K of hearts. When he just flatted my reraise once again I was 100% certain he had the bare ace of hearts.

On the turn again I'm betting for value and to protect my hand as I know Neil is too good to call me on the flop drawing to the  Kh when we are this deep. I just can't think it's hit him but I think the optimum way to play this here with my hand is to bet/fold I think. If Neil raises the turn I fold but I think it's a very hard thing for him to do in this spot even with the bare  Ahrt in his hand as I'm calling with flushes and sets.

When he called my turn bet I was a little confused as I didn't think he'd do this with just the  Ahrt so after a little thought I knuckled behind and got shown AK. I was tempted to turn my hand into a bluff incase Neil had in fact called with 1010/JJ or the bare  Kh but I didn't feel it was right to try and bluff Neil as I think he thought I was 'at it' a lot. I'm lucky the offsuit A doesn't river as I valuetown myself to death.

In this game, this deep and with these players ........ yes

Im a nit

I don't think it's about being a nit, it's about not having a hatred for money although after your 10 stakes thing this weekend I'm possibly questioning that!

fyp