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A couple of good teams in it, Celtic Reserves & Barcelona Reserves.

Ach well something else for the trophy cabinet, shame the trophy looks like something a schoolkid would come up with.

(http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/ne/ap/20090726/18/2836882109-celtic-s-darren-o-dea-lifts-trophy-winning-wembley-cup.jpg)

I believe it was something a school kid came up with, well done Celtic probably a greater achievement than winning the Scottish league cup.

Too true.

Pretty embarrassing actually going to lift that.  I suppose its the closest Celtic will get to a trophy all year.

What? another trophy? Your talking as though u's have won loads. That why its the Gers that dont have to qualify for the Champions league? U never even had to play Barca so

There will be no Tims in Europe!

P.S what a weird tourney, how can you win it and not even play Barca?

[  ] Thought it was much of an achievement, or tournament (hence the reserves comment  ::) )
[X] Knew it was designed by a 13 year old, wd Longy  ;laxie;
[X] Funny to see the reserves & kids beat how many millions? worth of players from the all-conquering EPL.
[  ] Rangers and Celtic are in a different tournament in Europe.
[X] Rangers know a lot more about empty trophy cabinets in the last few years boys, or did you go on strike in 2006 & 2007?
[  ] Didn't expect sniping.
[X] Just enjoyed a wee wind up for Kev & Nem.

[ x ] i am the biggest biter going when it comes to these issues

[  ] celtic will make the group stages

Odds?

This is true but no trophies are up for grabs for the rest of the year ;D

Won't take much to win the league back imo

Wouldn't be the biggest disaster to miss out on the CL, neither Celtic or Rangers are equipped for this tourney. The Europa League would at least have us playing teams of our own level.

[ ] Spurs are representative of the all-conquering EPL

Any you lot know who was no 6 for Spurs on Sunday?

They were in the top 8 which is better than average.

Average teams don't represent the Epl ?

Sandy

[X] £60m spent on their subs in the 2nd half against less than £100K on ours is worth a slagging though.

Again, Celtic's reserves

[ ] Celtic and Spurs are at remotely similar stages of pre-season training.

[X] Spurs are always worth slagging regardless of the above

Are you kidding on?? Its £10 million revenue for just getting there regardless of the results. I'll happily admit neither can do anything in the CL but the prestiage and money is a must

Don't be bitter Rod , the 'EPL'  is where it's at, you know you wish Celtic could get into it.I don't think it was too funny to see Celtic Kids beat Spurs.It was just a Friendly FFS.

ORLY?

Go on then - explain the £10m.....

Then explain why a potentially longer run in the Europa League isn't worth as much.....

TBH the only reason apart from prestige we'd want to qualify for the CL this season is to f*** up the payouts for the CL for Rangers.

 ::) If I say sorry for thinking Gerrard's a coward for not taking his punishment will you get a sense of humour? OK, I'm sorry he's a coward.

Do I want Celtic in the EPL, probably yes from a financial point of view, but I'd have deep misgivings about it as well. Ideally a European League will remove that financial reason & we wouldn't need to.

Nothing to do with Stevie G at all, you just seem to have an unhealthy jealousy towards all things Premier League. Build a bridge and all that.

Lol you only want in from a financial point of view? Surely you would like  it from a competitive point of view too?  What was the Kev said before about a coinflip league?

Jealous? Of the money, yes. Of the desperate desire led by the press to overinflate the influence and stature of the league, not really. It's in the top2 in Europe IMO, and good luck to them, but the constant put downs from people with little or no clue gets wearing.

I.E. coinflip league.... wee question for you - since the SPL started 2 teams have won it, in the same time how many have won the English League? Or to put it in another way - in Scotland from a 12 team league 2 have won it, 16.7%, the %age of the 20 team league in England is?

Big clue - it's not going to support your argument.......

that is one of the worst maths based arguments ever tbh

if there were 20 teams in spl there would still have only been 2 winners since it started (10%)

if there were 12 teams in epl there would still have been 3 winners in the same time period (25%)

I think you just beat it - Scotland has less population than London, but we're supposed to compare the 2 leagues with equal amounts of teams?

Please note I'm not arguing that the SPL is comparable with the EPL - that'd be daft, but the shots aimed at the SPL are mainly based in ignorance. Also the assumption from weet Potato that we'd be desperate to join the EPL come across as a bit smug. As I said, financially it makes sense, but the other implications mean it's an awkward one, there's not many fans up here who can't see good and bad points.

I'm a Rangers fan and would like to see the Rangers and Celtic joining the EPL, however that would completely shut down the SPL and lower league. They would become non existant like the Welsh League. If it was going to hapen we'd be better with a British league.

English are very ignorant when talking about the SPL. Considering Scotland's population is smaller than Londons. Rangers and Celtic are relatively big clubs.

Rangers and Celtic in the EPL would give the English a taste of what passion for football is as at the moment they only really get that from Liverpool

whooooooooooooooooooooooooaa

the last statement is complete balderdash sir....every club has its fan nuts.

A bit of a sweeping statement agreed. Although I'd say the %age fanatic is possibly higher in Glasgow - for good and bad reasons.

PS - DAMMIT Sweet Potato, Gatso & Tighty - see what you made me do - I defended one of them!!!  ;frustrated;



;D

Agreed. Of course its the biggest Derby in the British Isles for all sorts of reasons, not all footballing. But for the same reasons I don't fully understand the Old Firm, some Old Firm fans wouldn't get the background, history and passion of some of the big English Derbies.

I think it's hard for any fan to understand why other people support other teams - because support isn't rational, especially when it's of the fanatical support variety.

Even though I've other clubs I actively look out for, come the crunch I'm a Celtic supporter first, last & overall.

I don't understand the point you're making here. you seem to be patronising yourself by saying you're just relatively big

my local league draws from a much smaller population than that of glasgow. the 2 best teams in that league are also relatively big but I'm not sure they'd fare too well in the epl tbh

I am saying that condicering Rangers and Celtic play in the SPL they are massive teams. I never said they arent as good as or couldnt compete in the EPL because a truly believe the could. And results from the 90s and 00s show they could.

Rangers vs Leeds, Celtic vs Liverpool, Celtic vs Man Utd

It's all well and good in these once off ties every couple of years. They would both struggle to make the top half at the mo, but obviously in a couple of years(of prem lge football) when they start generating the cash and getting better players they woud be right up there in the league

how would old firm fans feel if they came into the epl and were immediately relegated? it's perfectly possible, there's really only the top 4 who are in no danger

is it a risk worth taking?

Lol Mckelinho sure has been to a lot of games round the country, I have it on very good authority the atmosphere when Liverpool are not playing a top 4/Everton at Anfield is terrible.

I like this post - for the record Celtic and Rangers are huge clubs IMO and I love the passion. However I'd still argue that right now the SPL is the weakest it's been AFAICR and the EPL is right up there with it's peak of 2 years ago if only slightly declined by the weakening of Manchester Utd selling one or two and Mourinho leaving Chelsea.

I'm not saying I get the SPL (God forbid ;)) and it's issues, but in footballing quality terms it's at one of it's lowest points from what I can see.

Recent CL history tells us the EPL is pretty damn close to being all conquering. It may be related to money, it may be less technically proficient than La Liga and it may be vulgar, but it's pretty hard to deny.

Incorrect.

Incorrect, in what way that is the view of a season ticket holder at Anfield for the last 10 years.

Incorrect in the way that I am a season ticket holder.

[ ] not enough check boxes in this thread

Yes the moneys good but you need it far more than we do. I was talking from a football point of view. One season without it isn't going to kill us in fact it could help us in the long run, it didn't do us any harm in 2003 or your lot last year. The way the coefficients are set up favours those who play in the Europa League rather than the CL so when you do get into the CL you are seeded higher like Rangers this year.

You've pretty much nailed it there Baron.

Absolutely a risk worth taking, even the Championship has more money than SPL and either side of the OF would most likely make a quick return to the top flight in the unlikely circumstance of a first season relegation from the EPL.

I would love to see both OF sides play in the EPL but retain a B side in the SPL which would be unable to qualify for Europe but still compete in Scotland. This could be used to blood young players. I also believe the SPL would flourish to a degree without the OF, you would go from two sides who could win it to a very competitive league with maybe as many as six contenders.

Hopefully we'll have Europe in some form this season, though the draw could have been kinder.

As for the SPL, my biggest worry is when we turn up to reclaim the trophy next spring we'll discover Rangers have pawned it to pay the gas bill.

Totally agree with this.

the reason I asked the question is that I don't agree with the above. imo getting out of the championship is ridic hard at the moment but I didn't really consider your other point about the championship still being bigger cash than the spl so guess it wouldn't matter if it took a couple of attempts to go back up

Can't really compare Old Firm to Prem, done well in Europe against Prem teams but so have some championship clubs in domestic cups. Only ever going to be 1 way to find out.

If offered a place in the Championship would old firm fans take it? Tough league to get out of.

my heart:

My passed views expressed on this thread have been based purely on my love for Rangers and Scotland. If Rangers and Celtic went to EPL we would finish mid table.


My Head:

Overall the EPL i far superior to the SPL and all other european leagues apart from Spain as it is money talks.

Spain always has been and always will be the best league in the world, made that way purely because they are superior at football hence this attracted money to the countrys football.

Italy should be up there with La liga and EPL as they are masters of football but due to corrupt boards and chairman they have slumped in the past decade.

The EPL has bought its way up to where it is now. Fair enough class players like Lampard, Gerrard and Gary Neville :) have came through but overall the EPL has made it to where it is as London is a large financial base and the British economy in important to world wide investors and therefore attracts the likes of Abramovic.

SPL is a league in a tiny country with its best players leaving it asap as the EPL is more attractive. a 5 million population country cant make a league to compete with a 60 million population country. I would like to see Engalnd, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland mix everything up and play with one big structure. The only plus side to this for the EPL would be the revenue of the Old Firm and i dont think the English would like it but i would like to see it happen

Would those who want Celtic & Rangers in the prem be happy for them to start in the Championship and earn the right to play in the Prem ?

Ooops just seen Jose has asked same question, interested in the answers though.

I would be happy with that because i believe we would both go up in the same season. I one thing that wouldnt go down so well is that the Old Firm have fought for Europe for the past 40+ years and deserve the right to continue doing so. Both Rangers and Celtic have made it to the group stages of the Champions league in the past 4 years with Rangers getting to the UEFA cup final 2 seasons ago so where would the justification be in putting them in the Championship.

Yeah I would although English clubs won't want us in the for-seeable future, you wouldn't blame them either.

You can't have your cake and eat it! Theres no way could expect to parachute into the Championship and still represent Scotland in Europe!

im not wanting my cake and eating it. Just expressing my opinions. The Old Firm's size and support would be good for the EPL and thats why they have been looking into it

In a heartbeat.

I'd take that. I know the Championship is a tough league but in a way playing in the SPL for so long is good preparation for that sort of scrap.

lol@the tic cave trying to claim the Europa league is as good, if not better than being in the champions league  lmao.  Enjoy the Europa league and let us know how that works out

If Celtic lose to the Russians do we go into the europa league or out of Europe completely?

I'm not to sure. I'd imagine Europa League is it is the 3rd qualifying stage that u are in tonight. Dont imagine the Playoffs stage will make  a diff to that. Should beat the Russians anyway. As long as u's can keep Kerzhakoz quiet. Think its the next round u really need to worry about

WD with the Fergus patter - it was getting old then  ::) make your case and you'd maybe be listened to.

Simply put, 3 home games in the CL for Rangers = roughly £5m ticket money & blue nose burgers. The UEFA cash depends upon TV audience and results, as long as you do well, you're OK, if not the £10-15m is just paper talk.

Europa cup = 3 home games in the group + other home games in the next rounds (you'd have to be really bad not to make top 3 out of 5). The TV money will be less than the CL if you get a good side as it's pooled like the CL, ie you don't get to negotiate games individually, but allowing for more wins (which should be achievable) it could be not too far behind a CL failure season.

Probably the best situation financially would be high points 3rd in group and a wee EC run.

Anyway, at least Lloyds won't be grabbing any money we make from Europe this year, Rangers though.....

Lose to Dinamo = Europa League last QR (seeded).
Beat Dinamo then lose = Europa League Group Stage (2nd Seed I think).

cheers Rod.

Celtic and Rangers will always play in Scotland. Quite how so many can argue so much over something which will never happen i don't know.

Scotland might have been the powerful league when Murray took over if some others could have done the same as Sky would've paid good money but they were all skint and trying to get all seater stadiums. They made the Epl who in turn made Sky.

Such is life. At least they have a shit national team like ours.

Sandy

Nice reading skills, I blame the schools.

Spot on. Should make both comps better footballing wise in the long run too.

Rod, please back up all figures with evidence.  For years sellik fans like yourself have claimed Rangers will get little more than a couple of million for being the only Scottish Team in the champions league whereas in years Celtic were the only team in it they would like us the believe that the money they recieve would take them to a new level of financial power.

Now Ive no doubt Rod wouldnt embarrass himself by breaking down the income of each tourney and blatantly making up the numbers Rangers can expect but call me a cynic, Id like you to back it up with some evidence.

And how much ticket money can Celtic really expect to make from the Europa league, from what I hear Celtic are having so much trouble shifting tickets for tonights game against (what seems to be) a decent team on paper that the game isnt on the TV to encourage more of the GFITW to go to the game.  With them being the GFITW shouldnt they have sold this game out the minute the draw was made??  Whats the story?  credit crunch? summer holidays???  hmmmmmmmmmm

Sigh. It really wouldn't take long to do the research. Then you can pull holes in Rod's statement properly.... wiv proppa fakts to back you up!

Do you just spout Follow Follow platitudes or can you speak for yourself? I'll pay your tickets for the Group Stage home games if you can show me saying that Rangers would only get a couple of million if they're the only Scots team in the CL. I'll expect a retraction when you can't. Also unless you've got dyslexia be adult enough to spell Celtic correctly.

On looking up what Celtic got last season I'll admit I got a shock, the payments for just getting into the Group Stage is a lot higher than last time I looked, I was shocked to see that Celtic got nearly 13m euros, so the £10m is easier to get than I thought. UEFA haven't announced the payments for the Europa League so that's a guess from anyone.

As for the rest of your  suppositions,don't believe all that you read from the Gub and the other rabid ones... We'd a bigger crowd tonight than Rangers managed in any of the last 2 season's worth of  qualifiers, none of which were on TV either. The league games would depend on the draw, but I'd expect Celtic to sell them as a package, keeping the attendances high anyway.

rod you really do tilt me no end, type of of celtic fan i love to hate.

p.s mon the dynamo!

I dont read follow follow so try again sir.

You said clear as day that Rangers will make around £5 million and that reports of £10 million+ are "just paper talk" and that the money from the Europa league would be comparable for Celtic.

Please show me where this Europa league is gonna make that much more money for clubs than the Uefa cup did that it now compares to the CL money and please show me where you're getting you CL figures from because itll be interesting reading.  I assume its not from the same tic cave literature that insisted that part of the Carlos Cuellar money went back to Osasuna which they used to buy Sno and took great delight in telling us that we effectively paid to get rid of Sno for Celtic.......a claim that turned out to be blatant lies.  Say it aint so Rod because I think I speak for everyone on the forum when I say we all rely on your information as being fact and as accurate as possible and not just completely made up.

PS- Ill ship you the reciept for my group stages package when they become available.  Is your address still Rod Paradise, Seething Farce, The Tic Cave, N0 C1u3??????

You're now making shit up. I said £5m + UEFA money - which I've admittted I'd underestimated. The £5m estimate is easy to come by - 50,000 * £35 * 3 is roughly £5m - which at no point did I say was all you'd get. Also how £5 = £2m in your mind I don't understand.

I got the CL figures from the UEFA website, ie somewhere accurate. Instead of making up some guff about Osasuna - this is the first I've heard of that one - since Sno went to Ajax I see no reason that would be said? Again I think you've got 'tic cave' stuff going on in your head, because for all your rhetoric there's not much fact at all.

Well done on spelling Celtic correctly though.

And you're the type of Rangers fan I tend to pity.

Read your post Rod, you said £5 million for gate receipts and broxi burgers plus Uefa money but £10 million is "paper talk" which would imply that its less than £5 million would it not?

And the Sno thing is an example of tic cave propaganda where your lot report it as fact when it is completely made up.  I could give more examples but I have more to do with my life.

How long before you try to claim the money made from the Wembley cup win is comparable to the money Rangers will make in the CL.

Anyway, enjoy your prestigous silverware and "ra selliks" Europa cup adventure and Ill enjoy the CL group stages at your expense.

paul all rods opinions are fact didnt you relise that? best just leaving this thread alone

That sounds like a Huddleboard wind up (ala the Canadian soldier), as Rod says Sno didn't even sign for Osasuna so I'm not sure why you would believe that or even remember it a year later. If the boot was on the other foot I'd just put it down to Huns talking pish and forget about it.

 :hello:

Fergus