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Title: What to do on the river??? Post by: George2Loose on October 28, 2009, 11:44:51 PM I have villian on AQ/AJ the whole hand.
Should I 3 bet pre or is calling out of sb ok???? What do I do on the river??? Full Tilt Poker Game #15646421182: Table Plomosa (6 max, ante, deep) - $1/$2 Ante $0.30 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:40:43 ET - 2009/10/28 Seat 1: OdiN1337 ($395.80) Seat 2: OFC Farva ($406.90) Seat 3: George2Loose ($276.70) Seat 4: Figool ($545.75) Seat 6: Jason Suh ($204.60) George2Loose antes $0.30 Jason Suh antes $0.30 Figool antes $0.30 OFC Farva antes $0.30 OdiN1337 antes $0.30 George2Loose posts the small blind of $1 Figool posts the big blind of $2 The button is in seat #2 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to George2Loose [Ad Kd] Jason Suh folds OdiN1337 raises to $6 OFC Farva folds George2Loose calls $5 Figool calls $4 *** FLOP *** [3h 8c Ac] George2Loose checks Figool checks OdiN1337 has 15 seconds left to act OdiN1337 bets $14 George2Loose raises to $30 Figool folds OdiN1337 has 15 seconds left to act OdiN1337 calls $16 *** TURN *** [3h 8c Ac] [4s] George2Loose has 15 seconds left to act George2Loose bets $45 OdiN1337 has 15 seconds left to act TROMS19 sits down OdiN1337 calls $45 *** RIVER *** [3h 8c Ac 4s] [Qh] George2Loose ??? Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: Ironside on October 28, 2009, 11:47:51 PM normally i like to canoe
but here check call cause he is going to bet his AQ and you cant fold AK Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: poonjoe on October 29, 2009, 01:58:02 AM Why so sure he has AQ/AJ?
Have you any history with this player? How likely is that he will bluff a missed draw if you check to him? With the strength you've shown thus far, it seems to me unlikely that he would attempt a bluff, and even less likely to raise-bluff if you value bet. So value bet! Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: Horneris on October 29, 2009, 02:01:50 AM Leave the table while you still can and use the remaining $195 to play 17 $11 mtts where you actually have a chance of victoryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: titaniumbean on October 29, 2009, 02:57:04 AM why did you minraise flop?
Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: salfi on October 29, 2009, 04:34:53 AM ide 3bet pre but if if taken this line u have to bet river as u might be bettin missed draw in his mind so u get value from aj ace 10. he wont repop river here as he figures u for nuts or air im guessing.
Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: BulldozerD on October 29, 2009, 09:23:05 AM I'd 3bet pre for sure - you have ace & king of the same suit
I'd consider leading flop maybe but depends on player as played if you put him on a lower ace but not a club draw, i would bet/fold to get value out of AJ/AT co if he has a set or AQ you sure will find out. If you think he has a club draw then you could check to induce a bluff. But best line is bet/fold imo don't understand why you would c/c if you think he has AQ iron, that's bad thinking imo. Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: GreekStein on October 29, 2009, 09:37:33 AM Bet/fold river?
Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: Ironside on October 29, 2009, 10:10:13 AM I'd 3bet pre for sure - you have ace & king of the same suit I'd consider leading flop maybe but depends on player as played if you put him on a lower ace but not a club draw, i would bet/fold to get value out of AJ/AT co if he has a set or AQ you sure will find out. If you think he has a club draw then you could check to induce a bluff. But best line is bet/fold imo don't understand why you would c/c if you think he has AQ iron, that's bad thinking imo. i dont think he has AQ but OP thinks he has AQ or AJ so on river its 50/50 if he has 2 pair or 1 pair lower kicker mind you i always lose flips Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: BulldozerD on October 29, 2009, 10:18:15 AM I'd 3bet pre for sure - you have ace & king of the same suit I'd consider leading flop maybe but depends on player as played if you put him on a lower ace but not a club draw, i would bet/fold to get value out of AJ/AT co if he has a set or AQ you sure will find out. If you think he has a club draw then you could check to induce a bluff. But best line is bet/fold imo don't understand why you would c/c if you think he has AQ iron, that's bad thinking imo. i dont think he has AQ but OP thinks he has AQ or AJ so on river its 50/50 if he has 2 pair or 1 pair lower kicker mind you i always lose flips yeah but he checks behind AJ/AT/Ax alot as he would struggle to bet these for value. However he would probably call a bet with them. Which makes b/f>>>c/c. C/c only makes sense if there is a good chance he has a busted draw and is a player likely to take a shot at it. I like betting somewhere around $70 Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: George2Loose on October 29, 2009, 01:41:49 PM i checked and villain insta shoved. crying call?
Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: BulldozerD on October 29, 2009, 01:51:00 PM i checked and villain insta shoved. crying call? you haven't stated any reads on villain so it goes on your gut feel at the time. did you check to induce a bluff or to c/f? if you checked with plan to induce then finish the job but this really comes down to reads/stats on villain - do you have any river AF stats? Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: kinboshi on October 29, 2009, 01:52:21 PM As played, I fold.
Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: doubleup on October 29, 2009, 02:01:22 PM sigh and fold you absolutely must 3 bet this pre (what do you 3 bet?). It is very easy to play then. Also this doesn't look like a great table - 3 players happy to buyin at double stack and the rest full stack. Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: Longy on October 29, 2009, 02:15:18 PM I don't think flatting pre is that bad, assuming you are comptent post flop and have a passive(ish) pre flop image. This way we keep all the hands that we have dominated in the pot post flop.
I am with other people on here, that this is clear bet/fold spot on the river, given villians assumed range and no funky history. Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: titaniumbean on October 29, 2009, 02:27:46 PM why did you minraise flop? really, why did you do this? And what if any info on villain/table is there? Pre is good some % of the time, though as it's an ante game and everyones ats should be higher I like 3 betting alot out of the blinds. Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: doubleup on October 29, 2009, 02:27:58 PM This way we keep all the hands that we have dominated in the pot post flop. Thats a bit weak surely - I can see that argument with AJ but I think we have to expect many players to call with AQ/J and drawing hands that will fold to a c-bet. Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: AlexMartin on October 29, 2009, 03:36:10 PM 3b pre 100%. As played, i either bet fold or check call. Probably bet small with a plan.
CR flop a shit load bigger Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: George2Loose on October 29, 2009, 04:02:27 PM Ok those who know me know im a tournament Donk just fancied playing some cash. i re raise small on the flop to get some value. i know i should 3 bet pre but generally have building a pot oop. on the river i was check calling but didn't know what to do when he shoved. my read throughout the hand was a weaker ace. probably aq. obv i call anyway and get stacked by a 3 outer
Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: BulldozerD on October 29, 2009, 04:33:21 PM bet/fold wins you money and saves you money here.
but in 6max if you aren't 3betting AKs pre what are you 3betting? Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: poonjoe on October 29, 2009, 04:58:04 PM I'd 3bet pre for sure - you have ace & king of the same suit I'd consider leading flop maybe but depends on player as played if you put him on a lower ace but not a club draw, i would bet/fold to get value out of AJ/AT co if he has a set or AQ you sure will find out. If you think he has a club draw then you could check to induce a bluff. But best line is bet/fold imo don't understand why you would c/c if you think he has AQ iron, that's bad thinking imo. i dont think he has AQ but OP thinks he has AQ or AJ so on river its 50/50 if he has 2 pair or 1 pair lower kicker mind you i always lose flips Its far from 50/50 with a queen on board! Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: Ironside on October 30, 2009, 12:17:36 AM I'd 3bet pre for sure - you have ace & king of the same suit I'd consider leading flop maybe but depends on player as played if you put him on a lower ace but not a club draw, i would bet/fold to get value out of AJ/AT co if he has a set or AQ you sure will find out. If you think he has a club draw then you could check to induce a bluff. But best line is bet/fold imo don't understand why you would c/c if you think he has AQ iron, that's bad thinking imo. i dont think he has AQ but OP thinks he has AQ or AJ so on river its 50/50 if he has 2 pair or 1 pair lower kicker mind you i always lose flips Its far from 50/50 with a queen on board! ok 3 times in 5 you win 2 times in 5 you lose seeing as you have him on aq or aj Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: salfi on October 30, 2009, 02:47:40 AM wow he spazzes out on the river with 2pair and somehow gets value. u have a bluff catcher on the river only and thats all u can beat when he shoves. as u repping extreme strength he has to be a tard to bet two pair jam here but obviously he does and somehow gets value.
while poker hands are played this way i can sit at home safe in the knowl i wont have to work anytime soon in the real world . bet he didnt keep ya money long? Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: doubleup on October 30, 2009, 09:35:41 AM I'd 3bet pre for sure - you have ace & king of the same suit I'd consider leading flop maybe but depends on player as played if you put him on a lower ace but not a club draw, i would bet/fold to get value out of AJ/AT co if he has a set or AQ you sure will find out. If you think he has a club draw then you could check to induce a bluff. But best line is bet/fold imo don't understand why you would c/c if you think he has AQ iron, that's bad thinking imo. i dont think he has AQ but OP thinks he has AQ or AJ so on river its 50/50 if he has 2 pair or 1 pair lower kicker mind you i always lose flips Its far from 50/50 with a queen on board! ok 3 times in 5 you win 2 times in 5 you lose seeing as you have him on aq or aj There are 4 jacks, 3 queens and 2 aces unseen. So the proportion is 8/6. Also you have to consider whether he bets or not with AJ. Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: poonjoe on October 30, 2009, 02:43:51 PM yeh didn't think of that coz AJ gets bet less its closer to 50/50
but i tell you what when you value bet the river he never raises AJ so George if you're putting him on AQ or AJ then bet-fold is much superior line. you could even bet less than half the pot. Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: BulldozerD on October 30, 2009, 03:22:59 PM wow he spazzes out on the river with 2pair and somehow gets value. u have a bluff catcher on the river only and thats all u can beat when he shoves. as u repping extreme strength he has to be a tard to bet two pair jam here but obviously he does and somehow gets value. while poker hands are played this way i can sit at home safe in the knowl i wont have to work anytime soon in the real world . bet he didnt keep ya money long? i don't think villain's river play is that bad here - you are surely not checking behind the rivered 2 pair Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: George2Loose on October 30, 2009, 03:23:12 PM yeah pretty much butchered it
Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: salfi on October 30, 2009, 11:42:19 PM wow he spazzes out on the river with 2pair and somehow gets value. u have a bluff catcher on the river only and thats all u can beat when he shoves. as u repping extreme strength he has to be a tard to bet two pair jam here but obviously he does and somehow gets value. while poker hands are played this way i can sit at home safe in the knowl i wont have to work anytime soon in the real world . bet he didnt keep ya money long? i don't think villain's river play is that bad here - you are surely not checking behind the rivered 2 pair Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: action man on October 31, 2009, 01:41:37 AM your playing cash like the early stages of a tourney mate, 3bet pre. on river as played i think bet/fold is the line.
not having a dig george but, from your reports of the IPO and various HH's when u have a player on one of 2 hands you seem to always be right ;) if he had AQ c/c if he had AJ bet/call bet/3bet riv :) Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: BulldozerD on October 31, 2009, 04:54:58 AM wow he spazzes out on the river with 2pair and somehow gets value. u have a bluff catcher on the river only and thats all u can beat when he shoves. as u repping extreme strength he has to be a tard to bet two pair jam here but obviously he does and somehow gets value. while poker hands are played this way i can sit at home safe in the knowl i wont have to work anytime soon in the real world . bet he didnt keep ya money long? i don't think villain's river play is that bad here - you are surely not checking behind the rivered 2 pair George checked to him on the river so i don't follow what you are on about Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: George2Loose on October 31, 2009, 08:20:14 AM your playing cash like the early stages of a tourney mate, 3bet pre. on river as played i think bet/fold is the line. not having a dig george but, from your reports of the IPO and various HH's when u have a player on one of 2 hands you seem to always be right ;) if he had AQ c/c if he had AJ bet/call bet/3bet riv :) Re playing it like a tourney agree!!! Usually I assign a range to my opponents hand but on occasion I go with a gut feeling. When the Q fell, I was convinced he had AQ so checked instead of taking the optimal line and then pay the fucker off anyway!!! I'm not a cash game player and the few cash games I am playing of late I'm playing REALLY badly. Think I just need to take a break from them tbh and continue to just run good in tourneys. Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: action man on October 31, 2009, 09:33:04 AM im pretty tez and cash, anything over $1/2 im a huge fish, just doesnt suit me.
Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: salfi on October 31, 2009, 09:38:04 AM wow he spazzes out on the river with 2pair and somehow gets value. u have a bluff catcher on the river only and thats all u can beat when he shoves. as u repping extreme strength he has to be a tard to bet two pair jam here but obviously he does and somehow gets value. while poker hands are played this way i can sit at home safe in the knowl i wont have to work anytime soon in the real world . bet he didnt keep ya money long? i don't think villain's river play is that bad here - you are surely not checking behind the rivered 2 pair George checked to him on the river so i don't follow what you are on about Title: Re: What to do on the river??? Post by: salfi on October 31, 2009, 09:49:24 AM looked at the hand again.i presumed he would bet the river obviously.
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