blonde poker forum

wanted opinions on what to do in a strange hand i recently played in a €1k tourney

field is full of scandi's, italians and eastern europeans and pretty soft.

hero image is pretty laggy/crazy. villain 1 upto now has been tight/passive and looked very nervous all day, while villain 2 has 3b me preflop a handful of times and been very aggressive in his pots he's played with others. its also important that villain 2 has an occasional tell where he grabs chips before its even his turn to act...and sure enough ends up putting those chips in the pot. 

both villains have around starting stack of 20,000 while hero covers.

blinds of 75/150, villain 1 limps utg+1, folds to hero in cutoff with  3s 7s, raise to 525, villain 2 calls from button, blinds fold and villain 1 calls.

flop  Qd 3d 6s

villain 1 checks, hero bets 1100, villain 2 quickly calls, villain 1 pauses and calls

turn  Qd 3d 6s 7d

villain 1 checks, villain 2 grabs 2000 chips, hero????

You havent suggested where you think the villains are?

You are in a very dangerous spot here with essentially bottom 2, and potentially needing to hit to catch up.

If villain 2 has been 3 betting , you have got to be concerned with his flat to a raise with a limp in front. Lets say he has suited connectors. More to the point - villain 1 has flatted - so he has got to have something - what is his range? Maybe top of his range is AQ with Ad or a flopped set?

I think you need to have done alot more in the way of narrowing their ranges before you even get to this spot. Lets say you call here (which is about all you can do), you still have villain 1 left to act who could easily shove is AdQx hand. You pretty much have to fold to that action.

Moving onto the river - approximately half the deck makes your hand unplayable and you are going to be OOP to a laggy villain (2).

Without anymore info at this stage - if you really think you are good, check call turn, check call the river.......................... but honestly............ fold pre

You hand has probably been behind on every street so I would shut down. Raising pre out of a crazy image with 7-3 is, errrrr, crazy.

Save this sort of funky stuff for when the antes come in and the pot's worth nicking pre.

Also don't raise when utg + 1 limps because he's calling you 100% of the time and he's ahead.

You can 3 bet against utg + 1 but a limper is very different.

If the UTG+1 player is a fit or fold player raise all day long. With reads and a terrible image maybe this isn't the best hand. I'd just check and see if he wants to lob the 2k in. Either check call or check fold.

I'd check fold the turn. If he's as aggro as you say he is you're never gonna see a cheap river and will be put in an awkward spot unless you fill up

When I raise pre flop I'm looking to isolate the limper and play a heads up pot in position vs a weak player. So him not folding pre is not an unexpected problem. Obv in this hand btn overcalled which isn't ideal.

Exactly if the player is weak then i'd rather he called and we went hu to the flop!

Altho he is likely to rep the flush. Maybe check and see what villian 1 does. Call 2k and re-evaluate on  the river

What do you think about betting less than 2k on the turn ourselves?

The move is crasy loose at a time when you're trading off a crazy loose image. It's ok to anticipate limping villain coming along but considering your hand flops like shit the pre-flop raise knowingly commits you to a bluffing strat vs at least one guy with a genuine hand, at a time when you have little credibility. There seems little to suggest this move has a high % of success under the circumstances.

Looks like he's playing this hand quite well up to now. Are we sure he's a weak player? Sure he's not setting us up?

If he is weak what about the button? Also how does the button perceive you? If button's good he might be doing to you exactly what you're trying to do to the limper. I suspect he isn't that good because really he should be 3 betting you unless he's very strong and looking to rinse you for a lot of chips.

I think with your laggy image you need to be very careful. Villain 2 is in a great spot here by having position on this board so it might be a good idea to check/fold and look for more opportunities to take chips off Mr weak. Unless you happen to bink a house on the river you're never liking this hand and it doesn't look like being checked down. Villain 2 could make life very tough for you if you check/call or bet and he calls you.

Don't like it tbh. Think with a third player in the hand check call is a better strat. If villian 2 bets and villian 1 raises you can muck your hand

FWIW I don't mind your pre flop play although it probably is a bit of a spew

turn  Qd 3d 6s 7d  pot is 5100

villain 1 checks, hero checks, villain 2 bets 2k, villain 1 calls, hero ??

is calling turn good/ok? had villain 1 c/raised turn hero folds, but should we still be folding turn given the actual action? as someone mentioned there really aren't many nice river cards for us.

is there even an argument for raising? do we see opponents call worse or fold better enough of the time?

I think check-calling is fine, bet-folding to a reraise is also fine. Raising here is absolutely terrible. I prefer check-callling here though.

Check folding is ridiculous don't they know who you are.. Chris "I run hotter than the sun" Brammer so there is like a 90% chance you will house up imo lol.

If you hit your house too you are defo getting paid off by the 'I cant fold paper' Scandi types and prob some player that satellited in that can't pass top pair top kicker/straight/flush.

Check-calling imo.

Didn't realise OP was Chris "mfckin" Brammer.

Just shove mate. You'll get there.

Lol. This!

If we check-call here, what is our plan for the river? Are we just check calling again?

Think I prefer bet-fold on the turn.

In this spot hero has a laggy image and the villain to his left has been an aggressive 3-bettor in pots he has played. Also the other real passive nervous guy liked this flop. Hero raised pre and then lead the flop so the chances of hero binking diamonds here will look pretty unlikely to his opponents, especially the aggressive villain. If you lead the turn with the intention of folding I reckon you will be folding most of the time. Passive guy will have it or aggressive guy will represent it.

check/fold to a bet on the river if you dont boat up. It's a gamble sure but versus these opponents you are defo getting paid off huge the implied odds are massive. Alternatively, if the fourth diamond comes on the river you could turn your hand into a bluff and rep the nuts although you could be walking straight into a guy holding AQ with the Ace of diamonds which you would then be booking your flight straight home to England lol. But this is obv an advanced bluff which takes a great read and big balls.

even if the 3 lands you dont know your boat will be good

A set should be raising all day on this flop, espesh if your last to act after a raise and a (quick) call. A quick call is usually a draw in my experience, a hesitated call looks to me like top pair big kicker. The aggro guy who has been 3betting alot is definately raising his set on the flop for value given his image. Imo if a 3 hits you have the best hand 99% of the time.

Button villain called the flop bet quickly though, which you think is usually a draw, and he would have raised a set right? So you think there's a pretty good chance this villain has a flush? You said earlier bet-folding was ok but if we think villain 2 has a flush it isn't is it?

He doesn't have to have the flush, given hes obv a LAG he could have a straight draw (7-5,7-4) or even made the straight with 5-4, he can even have a pocket pair like 88/99 which he decided to flat in position! He can even be on a total random float hoping to rep a scare card which is also associated with quick calls not expecting villain 1 to call behind. This sort of player is capable of this for sure.
The quick call is just a general assumption that its a draw from experience its usually not a strong hand is what I'm saying.

Given the pre-flop action I think we can discount those raggy 7-4 type hands and if he was floating to make a move betting to fold still fails as a viable strat here.

Scandis love 7-4s/7-5s the only thing that would make me think he didn't have these hands, is the fact that we have a 7 and the turn brought a 7.
But I agree with you on that I would be more concerned by betting and gettin raised by Villain 1 the Nit who limped, than bet folding to villain 2. As you want to keep the pot small, check calling is the best strategy as I said earlier.