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What are people's thoughts about the execution of Akmal Shaikh for smuggling 4kg of heroin into China? And the British government's stinging criticism of China's judicial system? Gordon Brown's condemnation of China helps Britain how? I think Brown is a complete mug of a PM and look forward to his demise in 2010. It's funny because he has continually urged us all to embrace and respect other cultures in this country and yet he shows no respect to the Chinese having made no less than 27 representations for clemency along with his vocal disgust of their handling of this case.

Admittedly I don't know much about the case but I do know the man's family are outraged and are citing mental disorder as a mitigating factor, apparently bipolar, the same as Kerry Katona. They described him as "a very vulnerable person and extremely ill". Why did they allow him to go to Poland and then onto China if this was so? The Chinese state that the guy has no medical condition on record so their actions seem fair enough imo. Anybody who commits a very serious crime prob has issues of some sort.

Kill them all, anyone caught smuggling drugs should be wiped out.

Every country in the world should do the same.

Stephen Fry was fronting a fairly high profile campaign for Reprieve on this case. Their take here.

http://www.reprieve.org.uk/akmalshaikh

people have been banged up in dubai for having a pack of mild (legal in this country) pain killers and also for smoking a spliff before they got on the plane. they have sensors so sensitive they can pick up if you accidentally wiped your arm on a surface where someone snorted coke. think you should define exactly what is an illegal drug and possession of exactly how much of it is smuggling before you start killing everyone off.

the guy had 4 keys for fuxsake. he hardly got that by wiping his arm on a table.

 rotflmfao rotflmfao

His defence didn't mention his mental health problems until he was proven guilty and the death sentance layed down.

Poorly handled by the people defending him.

but you'll just spout out any old shite anyway

seems to me that the uk government is bi polar.

 issues plea for clemency on the grounds that the guy had a a medical condition and may not have been aware of teh full implications of what he did

at same time refusing plea on medical grounds by mkinnons extradition to a us federal penetentiary based on the fact that he was trying to cause damage and was not aware of the implications of what he did

no wonder the chinese dont get us -we are so inconsistent.

that aside the chinese have laws -he broke em - our opinion is irrelevent.

No sir, I'll start a thread asking people for their opinions on the matter. That way I will broaden my knowledge on the subject and learn more about how people feel. Your contribution taught me you are a grumpy plops and nothing more. But that doesn't help me to become more informed about the issue.....thus compounding the very thing that annoyed you. So gg.

whilst I think there are some genuine mitigating factors in this case the chinese have certainly set an effective deterrent to drug smugglers , its just unfortunate that drug smugglers use unwitting and unsuspecting mules to move their stuff

that said if i were travelling in that neck of the words i would be extremely vigilant over my case/bag

OK, well here's my opinion.

Firstly, saying that his condition was 'the same as Kerry Katona' is pretty unhelpful. Bipolar disorders are not all the same, and even sufferers diagnosed with the same type of bipolar disorder will have different symptoms (eg there will be psychosis present in some, but not others).

"They described him as "a very vulnerable person and extremely ill". Why did they allow him to go to Poland and then onto China if this was so?". That quote also wound me up a bit. By their very nature, bi polar disorders present symptoms cyclically, and most 'sufferers' lead perfectly normal lives, either with or without medication. One presumes the guy was in a stable period when 'they' (whoever 'they' are) 'allowed' him to travel.

The long and short of it, I think, is that it's impossible for any of us to say what we think could or should have happened in this case as we don't have access to the guy's medical records or the evaluations that were made of his condition which were the basis of the appeal. What we can do is express our opinions on whether people committing a crime when not of sound mind should be convicted in the same way as someone fully in charge of their faculties.  I'm a loony lefty who has been a member of Amnesty for the last 15 years, so I don't think I need to spell out what I think to that.

Dead now by the sound of it they didnt think he was mentally ill so that was that.

Quick turnaround imo!

I didn't intend to cheapen the bipolar condition Claw so apologies if it came across that way. However, that said a disorder that allows the sufferer to lead a perfectly normal life during stable periods can be exploited and cheapened in this very sort of circumstance. I imagine anybody seeking to smuggle heroin into a country with capital punishment would see a bipolar sufferer as the ideal mule. If in the event they are caught they can use the clemency plea to lessen the severity of their sentence. Somebody with bipolar would hardly claim they were in a mentally stable period when they're sitting in a foreign prison awaiting the death sentence. Can an accurate assessment really be made after the fact?

If a Brit took a bad beat in the Bellagio, went out and got a shotgun, came back and started picking off dealers at will is that guy of a stable mentality? Hell no. If the American judiciary sentences that guy to death should our PM tell the world he thinks America is inhumane? and what good would it do if he did? That was more my question. I kinda think the criticism was such because it was China. And the Chinese authorities state this guy has no record of mental illness. So in that respect is bipolar being exploited to achieve clemency? And if it is wouldn't it set a dangerous precedent if China succumbed?

I didn't think you'd cheapened anything, but I wasn't sure why you'd mentioned Kerry Katona tbh.

I agree to an extent with the other stuff, but these things have to be considered on a case by case basis and the judgements of the professionals taken into consideration. IDK if there is a precedent for someone suffering (or claiming to suffer) with a bipolar disorder being let off a drug smuggling charge or shown clemency. I don't imagine the smugglers are too bothered about the fate of the mule in any case tbh, so not sure why they'd be 'ideal'.

"Wouldn't it be a dangerous precedent if China succumbed?"  In what way do you think such a precedent could be 'dangerous' - anything that leads to less state-sanctioned executions being carried out is ok in my book, or am I missing something obvious?

He was executed this morning before Mantis posted - the campaign to try to stop the execution has been going on for a few weeks.

Really? My internet browser must be playing tricks on me!

Well can I suggest that if you are seeking opinions you don't use the death of a fellow citizen as an opportunity to slag off the prime minister. 

btw I don't believe the uk will allow extradition if a death sentence is a possibility and will always make representations to any country if a uk citizen is under such a sentence.

I'm confused now. he was executed at 10.30am local time, which I would imagine was early hours of the morning here.

Think your right Claire, just me mixing up the Yahoo threads I have been reading.

I don't know what that means. The Chinese government slagged off our prime minister after they put one of our citizens to his death for smuggling 4k of heroin into their country. They said the lives of upto 26,800 of their own fellow citizens were jeapordised by the actions of our one fellow citizen. You don't think I should agree with the Chinese because the guilty guy is a British drug smuggler? I agree with their disillusionment with our government on this issue and was wondering if anyone else felt the same. You're trying to suggest disillusionment with our government over this issue wasn't present before I showed up. It was.

Stop being obtuse - you titled your thread "GORDON BROWN'S CHINESE TAKEAWAY" - is that meant to be funny?

I really don't think that that being "slagged off" as you put it, by a repressive regime is something that the British goverment should worry about, particularly when that regime is murdering a British citizen.

Perhaps you should hop along to the Chinese embassy and tell them you think they are doing a good job if you are so concerned about their opinions.

 

 

yeah this is a poker forum not an article for spectator magazine, "drug smuggler execution" or somethong would have surficed

I think China has become more progressive than repressive over recent years. I lived there in the early 90's so I am in a good position to assess how far the country has come. I think the way to accelerate their continued progression is to sustain favourable relations with them. Britain should be concerned about foreign relations really, especially with the world's major powers. We have become increasingly unpopular in the Arab world over recent times to our detriment and now we want to alienate Asia. You don't think we should worry about the cause and effect of our worldwide image? That's more obtuse than some thread title on a poker forum.

What's also obtuse is accusing a country of murder when they impose capital punishment for trying to deter major drug importation. Do you think China envies Britain's success in controlling our own drug problems without such a deterrent?

Two well important things for you to ponder about the point I'm making. You entered this thread with hostility and you got hostility in return. See what I'm saying? And Tiananmen Square was a long time ago.

Oh and "slagging off" was your word not mine.

Sigh.....

I agree with Mantis on this thread.
Our government is terrible.
China have this spot on, everybody knows whats going to happen, you bring drugs in you die.
Should be the same here.
The main point on this thread is what that 4 kilos does to so many people in that counrty.

Sorry stu but this is a loada shit tbh

The guy was mentally retarded and didnt have a clue what was going on that is clear, the chinese govt are ridiculous [  ] power to the people

And if where guna start saying people deserve the death penalty can we start with people like ian huntley etc etc plz

Who can really say who deserves the death penalty? Maybe capital punishment is wrong altogether, but it's something that's a matter of law in different countries around the world. The fact is China does have the death penalty, as does America, and they believe in it's virtues as a deterrent even if we don't. I know who really really doesn't deserve the death penalty though. And that's all the innocent people caught up in the 9/11 atrocities, the tube bombings, and any other terror attack. These are not people trying to traffic heroin into another country or child killers, they are just poor innocent everyday people going about their business. Victims of their country's unpopular foreign policy. These are the people we should be thinking about before running our mouths off criticising other countries and their culture.

In what way is it clear?

This. I dont think there was any suggestion that the guy was 'retarded'

I drink too much,ldo :)

lol there shouldnt be any offence where you die

For me it is quite simple.!

When you are in a country with different laws than yourself, you follow those laws.  If that means death for doing certain things, then death it must be.  Some countries chop off yer hands for robbing, some even cut off yer manhood for various things.  You go to that country, you do the crime, you serve their punishment.

Our Government has no right trying to interfere in any countries laws, political suicide, let the people paid to deal with that stuff at embassies do that stuff.  How would we feel if a Chinese person came to UK with 4Kg of whatever class A drugs and we put him in jail, or made him suffer whatever our laws are, and the Chinese government tried to tell us our way is wrong..

I also think it is convenient for a case to be found guilty and then afterwards, mitigating evidence to be found to try get the guilty person off.  Glad the Chinese took no messing...

There's been a suggestion that the gentleman was duped into smuggling the drugs by a group who promised to make him a world famous popstar. 

He was unaware of the contents of his case and therefore his mental illness played a key part in the whole trafficing/prosecution/execution situation.

If this is the case then it appears he has been treated horribly but it begs the question, why was his defence not aware of the facts.

Its all very confusing to me and I suppose we'll never get the full story.  Its pretty upsetting whatever the facts.

the defence doesnt get a chance to do that, theyre marched into court then out again with the death sentence

She was very successful at life, popstar, reality show winner, mum of the year, very rich, and I never heard one thing about her bipolar condition. After she's spewed all her money on booze and coke all I hear about is her bipolar condition. The Chinese were saying this guy had no medical records about his condition before he got into trouble but now he's on death row it's reason enough stop them exercising the law of their land. I agree that if his defence was genuine he's been treated horribly. But if this is the case I can't help but think he's been failed by more people than just the Chinese government.

Yeah its really that simple eh....China has one of the worlds worst human rights records- they executed over 1700 people last year for 68 different crimes-a lot less severe than smuggling drugs!!!!

If you think thats the way we should live then hows the planet meant to progress....all governments keep out of each others business eh???

Let Saudi Arabia stone women to death for adultery(many of which cases are on a whim with no concrete evidence)? Let china/America continue to pollute the planet the way they do?

Surely globalisation has had a positive effect in that these cases can be highlighted so that stuff like this can be erradicated. Not talking about this case in specific, and I'm all for following Laws and respecting other countries beliefs but it cant just be "put up and shut up"- if there is something I think is clearly wrong(like the stoning mentioned earlier) I think we have the right to shout loud enough so these countries hear of our disgust....and perhaps listen to their own civilians.

and why would you have? If she was diagnosed at the time then it's probably not something she'd want to shout about - there's a hell of a lot of stigma still around about the condition (indeed on this thread someone's said the guy was 'clearly retarded'.

It's also a difficult condition to diagnose, as the diagnosing professionals will often want to see the sufferer in all of their states (i.e. manic, depressed, stable) before making a diagnosis. With some forms of bi polar disorder the sufferer can remain in one state for a period of several years, so it's not an easy one. Of course it's often misdiagnosed (and treated) as acute depression too, as it's during depressive periods that the suffer will be seeking medical help, but during the manic phases that most of the 'damage' (i.e. problems with drugs, gambing, overspending) will be done.

I disagree, there are crimes so horrific that death would be a suitable punishment.

That said I will now contradict myself by saying I do not agree with the death penalty. In principal I have no problem with it depending on the crime but in practice there is just something disturbing and wrong about the whole process. The US process of spending years on death row is something I find particularly cruel and unusual.

ZOMG!!
She was just a typical coke fiend nothing else, the bi-polar bull was just to try and save her shite career!

Monda your posts on fire lately!

Theres no proof of any mental illness though is there?

Yeah Ian Huntley deserves to die, send him to China they would sort it.

I think a lot of people share that opinion, and is what Mantis was getting at earlier. Doctors don't go dishing out a diagnosis and medication to save people's shite careers.

Bipolar disorder is when someone gets excessively happy and excessively sad - that's all.

"Judge, my client is very happy right now, surely this should excuse him from the death penalty?"

not quite that simple

Do you have an alternative definition?

LOL,drinkaments ftw :)

See u for one at dtd sat ??

Try this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder

If I got caught with 4k of heroin in my bag and sentenced to death I reckon I'd get excessively sad as well. Shit! I might have bipolar??

From your link:

"is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a category of mood disorders defined by the presence of one or more episodes of abnormally elevated mood clinically referred to as mania or, if milder, hypomania."

The words are fancier, I'll give you that ;)

OK. Now if you've read the rest of it you'll realise that a period of mania is far from just being 'excessively happy'.  It's a lot more likely the guy was in a manic period when he did what he did.

I hope the rest of the people that read your blithe definition followed by the 'that's all' take the time to look at the link as well and realise there's a lot more to this all too common disorder that can really fuck up people's lives.

 :goodpost: ;iagree;

You do realise mental disorders arent real they're just in your head?

Thought this thread would be about his chinese order.

I bet he orders


ribs in peking sauce
special fried rice
chips
prawn crackers
maybe another dish like chicken in black bean  coz he is a fat fuck!

Okay okay, but both the wikipedia and swordpokers definition of bi-polar are exactly the same as the side effects of doing a lot of coke would you not say?

no, the highs and lows of coke come and go pretty quick and you are in your control of when and how they happen

I don't know - I've never done coke. To an extent I guess the highs brought on by taking coke and the comedown are similar in a way to the highs and lows experienced by bi polar people, but over a shorter time frame. It's probably a reason why a lot of bipolar people turn to drugs like coke too - to recreate the euphoria of a manic phase when they're feeling depressed.

i understand what you're saying claire but i hate it when everytime people say theres a reason why people take recreationl drugs like coke, cant people just take it because it makes you feel wicked and you want to have a good time without there being any underlying reasons?

Im talking about proper coke users not recreational ones.

yeah I'm not saying that that's not the case, and I know loads of people in that bracket. I'm talking specifically in the cases of people with bi polar disorder, among whom taking coke is pretty common.

are there really that many "proper" cocaine users?

imo there are proper herion and crack users but coke is recreational, i could do coke every night for a month and every other night for 2-3 months then just stop for the next 6 months, go smoke crack for 2 months and see if you could stop.

Yeah mate I think theyre are and I would be interested to see you do your challenge.
Ive only done it a few times but I know a few people who just ended up not being able to go out with out it.

Im talking about people who just end up doing it all day and night because they cant function with out it.

Found this though which should help people understand bipolar a lot better http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Bipolar

[ ] funny

conditions of prop bet pls? ;D

;joestrummer;........

Ha ha!

Okay mate you got to do a minimum of 1 gram in the day 2 at night for a month, and then at the end of it you have to sit in a room with one line ready chopped out for you for 24 hours with out touching it.

If you succeed I will move you on to the heroin test...... probs will be a little harder.

nah you win, really 5 stellas and 1/2 a spliff and i'm on my back singing too shy by kajagoogoo

you tube link please!

of me wrecked singing too shy or the record?

if you mean the record im sad you dont know that tune............the chorus dont start untill 1:10 so dont turn it off straight away then its like the greatet song ever..............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P6I4pT_tVA

LOL quality song

Of course in know the song!

I want to see you half battered singing it on your kitchen floor!

Nah dude, you don't get excessively happy and excessively sad if you do a lot of coke. But if you do a lot of coke you run out of money and that can make you sad. Katona was really happy then spewed all her cash away and then she was sad. And a bipolar diagnosis gives her the perfect excuse for a very standard life spew. And there would be a long queue of quacks lining up to offer this diagnosis for any cash she had left over.

so if you have infinite money you stay happy forvever?

Yes if i had infinite money i would stay happy forever.

but you might go on a deep spiritual journey where you realise money actually makes things worse, unless you plan on taking cocaine all the time in which case then yes you are correct you would feel great all the time untill you died of a heart attack but you would have great nights watching 80's electro pop on youtube mashed, gl.

surely you would be pretty sad when you died of a heart attack?

im assuming you'd still be buzzing so it's prob be a combo of being mashed and dying, it might be great, although my mate whos my mate had 2 heart attacks and he said it wasnt great, but he moans about most stuff.

If you had infinite money and an ounce of coke sitting on your coffee table you'd actually be having a heart attack in a jacuzzi filled with hot women, and that would be an ok way to go, but yes also kinda sad as well.

It hasn't been stated that this is a fatal heart attack so I'm assuming it's not too bad.

Might smart a bit but then you get to claim on your critical illness cover and get your house paid off and it's all gravy from there on in.

Then again seeing as we now have infinite money that probably won't be such a great consolation.

Surely this is a way to pretend to be bipolar? Crazy fun then norrrrrrrrr im dying!