blonde poker forum

Ok with the flat pre? And now?

Full Tilt Poker Game #17237559126: $25,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (129011635), Table 5 - 80/160 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:24:07 ET - 2009/12/31
Seat 1: weeld26 (2,960)
Seat 2: joshk1 (9,632)
Seat 3: George2Loose (16,149)
Seat 4: phatchoy888 (12,483)
Seat 5: McLeroy31061 (4,585)
Seat 6: RUDY XOXO (1,663)
Seat 7: Buxbom (13,990)
Seat 8: shakyamunl (8,331)
Seat 9: seg84 (5,274)
RUDY XOXO posts the small blind of 80
Buxbom posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to George2Loose [As Kc]
shakyamunl raises to 480
seg84 has 15 seconds left to act
seg84 calls 480
weeld26 folds
joshk1 folds
George2Loose calls 480
phatchoy888 has 15 seconds left to act
phatchoy888 raises to 1,920
McLeroy31061 folds
RUDY XOXO folds
Buxbom folds
shakyamunl calls 1,440
seg84 folds
George2Loose has 15 seconds left to act
George2Loose ?

any info on opponents?

I recognise 3 betters name. Table was pretty solid/ABC. Think utg is peeling with shite. Worried about 3 bettor behind.

phatch0y888 is a SICKO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

prob nothing is super bad in this spot.. if you 3bet pre you can prob play the hand better... i.e if he cold 4's... then you fold with effect stacks being pretty deep.

assuming you have read on original raiser to say he is peeling light after flatting 25% of his stack pre???

obv eyeball for me dude

UTG was playing like a tard. His peel here doesn't have to be stong. In fact I'm sure he'd reshove top end of his range.

Is this a 4 bet, call situation. Should I shove? Is peeling bad? I tanked this one hard.

Another very good hand post. It's tricky now, so even tougher when you've only got about thirty seconds. I'll go for a re-raise all in. If you're correct about shaky, and phatchy has observed this too, he may well have under-estimated the strength of your hand. If you flat call your hand could be very difficult to play post flop, so i would put the question to phatchy pre-flop and neutralise your positional disadvantage. If he has aces or kings, thats tough, but you may end up getting the chips in later in the hand anyway if this is the case. Definitely an all-in for me.
  prob rubbish-just having a go-ATB-Rage :)

I'm AHHHHHHH-INNNNN! Your hand is so under repped the 3bettor folds so often to your shove here too, get it in George!

Agree with Cotton, UTG flats because he thinks youll fold, theres no way he can have you on a hand as big as you have. I reshove.

I tank shoved. Phat snapped with Kings. UTG snapped with AQ

Ul. Obviously not what you wanted to see. Hope you hit the ace. Thanks for sharing. ATB-Rage.

Results orientated, you made the right play mate so don't worry about it.

Always like to check these things :D

all depends on phatchoy888 stats, railtard sais he's a sicko, so I guess he's squeezing pretty wide here, I dont think we ever get called off worse.

If he shove we get all worse hands to fold, if we flat then 4bet our line looks so weird that we might get AQ to shove over us.

So phatchoy888 has raised to 1950, is raising to 4399 really bad here?

It is bad if your not planning to call it off, if your 4betting for value then its fine just don't ever 4bet fold AK otherwise just fold or call the 3bet, calling here would be terrible though playing AK OOP in a multiway pot. Also if he's a good thinking player he can 5bet shove here light as you are the 2nd player to flat call the UTG raise so its going to be more difficult for you to have a BIG hand in his mind.

this the $20r?

i fold here in this comp, way way way better opps to get chips. The 3bet here pre antes is very seldom AQ or TT

WTF is this a level?

Think crucial stage in the hand is me flatting pre. Should I always be 3 betting here?

I would 3bet here George yeah!

i wouldn't 3 bet in the jail game pre antes.

Now I kno its a level! asif u fold AK here Trigg

its not a level. Phatchoy is not 3bet stealing here this deep in a $20r.

30r

Only way I could get away from this hand is if I 3bet to isolate the UTG raiser (who you say is raising light in early postion) then if I got cold 4bet then I would obv fold. When you've played it like this I can't find a pass tbh. Obv there is a valid arguement in the fact this guy could be multitabling and never squeezing light.

Real eye-opener for me this hand, having discussed in more detail with Trigg and James about this hand they both tell me the same thing I did actually think Trigg was levelling me at 1st, people never squeeze light pre antes and that this guy is most likely multitabling therefore his range is so small it's like never worse than queens that he has. Being a 6max cash game specialist myself where players are alot more aggressive and capable of squeezing light and stacks are always 100bbs+ I guess 80bbs is more important in a tournament than 100bbs in a cash game. Knowing our opponent almost always folds AK and QQ here though to a 4bet shove and we have Ace and King blockers is it really as easy a pass as James and Trigg state? 

omg three of my heroes debating this hand, doctor keys doctor trigg and doctor williams.

i cant read this thread anymore. it upsets me too much that you all have different opinions.

Well I'm pretty much done with this hand appreciate the opinions put on here, but I disagree that he calls here with AK and I don't think hes going to want to call off QQ this deep if he is a good tournament player multitabling. If he is 1 tabling and noticed our overcall which I stated earlier then I think he might tank call with Queens, AK is a hand you can't call with this deep imo. I was playing in Galway ME was late on day 1 antes were in play and the same situation happend but I was the squeezer with AJss the initial raiser 4bet me, there was a fold and the over caller shoved I obv snap folded and the other guy called with QQ and the over caller had Aces, maybe just a one off it was a €2k buyin so the standard is going to be alot higher compared to a $30 rebuy. But like I said real eye opener and I for one will be giving squeeze plays more respect pre antes from now on in tournaments.

it's like you've hit rock bottom and you're trying to dig

lol?

we are repping like 88-JJ pretty strong with the backraise and you think a good reg folds QQ/AK?  No

Yeah thats fine, now you've explained instead of making a dumbass comment. But you wanna flip with AK this deeply stacked in a torny seems retarded to me.

17043 in the pot, 10563 to call, means we need 38.2% to call:

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    43.960%     43.76%    00.20%         215821548       964008.00   { AKo }
Hand 1:    56.040%     55.84%    00.20%         275393988       964008.00   { JJ-88 }

[ ] good reg will be passing up 5.5% edge

See you can make a good post with the help of poker stove. I have some interesting hands of my own to post either tonight or tomorrow from 6max NL cash games so if your interested in making a valuable comment on them please feel free.

The only reason to overcall a premium hand is to deceive everybody else at the table about the strength of our hand and to generate further action behind. skolsuper says villain knows for a fact we don't have premium because of our overcall, and rupert says we are repping a medium pair. This makes overcalling with premium a blindingly good and deceptive move under the right circumstances.

Are these the right circumstances? The problems start if we agree with Trigg who says a 3-bet behind in this spot is never a steal. And the consensus is that this is so. The only reason to overcall premium is to disguise our strength and generate action behind yet any action behind means we're beat. So yeah, if players behind aren't 3-bet squeezing then making a play that profits from players behind 3-bet squeezing makes zero sense. Considering UTG is playing like a tard I think 3-betting his open yourself is the only viable option under the circumstances.

I hate 3betting pre, are we 3-bet folding?  What do we do if we get jammed on or flatted behind us? We'd have to c/f a lot of flops which makes calling the initial raise a lot better this deep.

Once we've flatted and get squeezed, none of the options seems that great. Flatting is horrible, we're OOP and decent opponents never stack off with worse on the occasions we do hit. Shoving doesn't seem that great either so folding is probably the least worst option.

I think the hand would be way more interesting if we had Queens here, now that does become a 'hate life' spot.

You hate 3betting pre in case we get jammed or flatted behind? In reality how likely is that given the action? And there's only 2 players who could have position on us so it's very unlikely we will in fact c/f a lot of flops. And if we say a 3bet behind our flat beats us then a 4bet certainly beats us. Flatting only encourages players behind to get involved in a big multi-way pot with a wide range. So then if we miss we'll fold and if we hit...one pair may well not be good enough anymore. The only person who realistically jams our 3bet without the goods is the UTG opener who has been described rather eloquently as a "tard".

well 3 betting we fold out every worse hand and keep in every better.  so achieves just about everything we don't want to achieve

[ ] 3-betting UTG sure did make him pass the worst hand

true, although we don't really know much about villain before the hand so i'd give him credit for folding.

agree to disagree i suppose

whoaaaaaa

how did no-one pull that up!

It's called a pisstake.

Mantis you are forgetting the times there is no 3b, we flop a pair and get paiiiid

if utg is such a tard then just 3b with intentions of getting it in vs him

And hence the problem. When you flop a pair in the big multi-way pot you've created you think you're getting paiiid. My hand is so underrepped I've just gotta get my stack in cos I'm getting paiiid...oh wait. And sorry but lol at a 3bet folds out every worse hand Rupert cos villain 3bets and 2 players jam worse.

Well personally I like to not be results orientated/work off incomplete information rather than look at their hands and say what we should have done

Well do you need to look at their hands/be results orientated to say after UTG raise, call, reraise, players yet to act behind holding pp's will fold? I would say you can easily make that prediction from the action alone. So your statement 3betting keeps in every better hand isn't true...even if you think your statement nobody calls with worse is...which it isn't.