blonde poker forum

Ok, this hand is from tilt early $162. Had been playing pretty tight pre antes, got moved from a table full of frenchys to this table with a couple of sickos. Opponent had flatted about 50% of the hands i had seen at this table. I know him as a very good reg. I have history with him on stars, but not sure if he knows im same person on tilt, as i have dif names. On flop i just felt pretty bad check folding to him. I guess it prob turns my hand face up as a hand with marginal show down, i.e a ton of A high stuff. So the fact he still bets the turn.....
On the river when i checked to him he time banked for about 40 seconds and then shoved...
surely his value range is thin here?? AJ 33 44 only... but maybe not even AJ.
I asked a few people about this hand and got mixed responses. A good player i know said he has played a ton with opponent and he loves a bluff so snaps off on river.. but i just cnt see this as being some random bluff.. maybe somethign like 88 or 99 that he has turned into a bluff?
Just fold river?

Date: 2010/01/13 17:06:55 ET
Type: Tournament (126773901)
Game: Hold'em NL
Table: 30
Blinds:  $100/200

Table info:
Seat 1: xROUNDER12x ($7,540)
Seat 2: nabjuna ($1,640)
Seat 3: railtard1 ($13,100)
Seat 4: Bourbonftw ($4,615)
Seat 5: farno ($17,652) 
Seat 6: NeverScaredB ($11,616)
Posts small blind $100
Seat 7: dreampokerman ($20,473)
Posts big blind $200
Seat 8: Roy Winston ($4,457)
Seat 9: grand slam xv ($10,885)

Dealt to railtard1
 
 Ahrt Qd

Preflop: (Pot: $300)
FOLD grand slam xv
FOLD xROUNDER12x
FOLD nabjuna
RAISE railtard1, to $490
FOLD Bourbonftw
FOLD farno
CALL NeverScaredB, $490
FOLD dreampokerman
FOLD Roy Winston

Flop: (Pot: $1,280)
 3s Jh 4d   

CHECK railtard1
BET NeverScaredB, $875
CALL railtard1, $875

Turn: (Pot: $3,030)
     3s Jh 4d Aspades
CHECK railtard1
BET NeverScaredB, $2,000
CALL railtard1, $2,000

River: (Pot: $7,030)
      3s Jh 4d Aspades Kh
CHECK railtard1
BET NeverScaredB, $8,251 and is ALL-IN

????????????

Why would he be betting that turn card with 88/99, to start an early bluff? or v thin merged value or what?

Looks alot more like sets, QT, picked up spades/ a bluff, I think I would cawl.

Surely if hes going value town bet bet bet he would make it 2500 on turn to get stacks in without an over bet on the river?

just how wide is his flop stabbing range in reality?

what does my hand look like though? Top of my range is AQ / AK i guess. other stuff like 88 /99 even J9, JT i am likely to fold on turn... i dunno, i really levelled myself in this hand

as i said this is a v good hand for analysis. I'm a little stumped.

If it's a bluff I think it's pretty sick.

the range your repping is pretty weird. For him to jam the river, he either has air and thinks you dont have much or thinks you have 2 pair + or may level yourself. Rly rly gay spot, as played i fold i think

yeh i really played retarded on flop, but after that the turn plays itself.... then the river, as i said, he tanked for liek 40 seconds before jamming for slightly more than pot. Levelled myself so hard on this hand!

set  of 3's or 4's is my guess, and puts you on AK and doesnt think u would lay it down

Why do we raise so small pre? Why do we check the flop? Why do we then call the flop?

sorry, think im being dumb/hh error, but how are we oop when he posted a blind?

Think it is an hh error, as 2 people act after villian preflop.

u think villain coldcalled the button (my guess)? railtard 1 get the right hh pls, makes a huge difference to his pre calling range and line.

That would be my best guess, Alex.

Cleary seats 7 and 8 post.

i mean, is it really that taxing?? im sorry the HH is slightly incorrect, copied from poker hand and must have messed up along the way... neverscaredB flatted on the button.
What is wrong with raising  slightly under 2.5x at this stage? if he is flatting that he will flat 3x no??
yeh flop line is weird as i said, was gona check / fold, but it felt pretty weak to him. Flop being error, (AS I ALL READY SAID) what do i do on river AS PLAYED..

Hit the timebank and write out 10 times "i will not spew like this again today"

^^^Genius

ok, soz, just hate stuff like that. Like when someone grabs u during a break at some live donkament and goes to describe a hand willy nilly without stacksize/blinds/position/reads etc. Really fking tilting, let me smoke in peace. Makes so much difference.

Pre i dunno, flop looks tez, as played its a horrid high variance spot, i mean ur at the top of ur range but given how uv played the hand villain can be vshipping a much wider value range given he coldcalled otb. kick urself for that flop gift.

Sure won't do this every time I see you from now on.

as i said / you said flop is bad / spewy... BUT, surely this makes his value range super thin by river? i mean my hand cnt look like 88-tt after my turn c/c. So he has to have 33 or 44... MAYBE AJ, but then i have to have exactly AQ.. mehh, i duno as i said, i levelled my self sooo hard here...
i guess check fold flop or bet fold flop FTW.

p.s I p.m'd neverscared on pocket fives and asked him what he had if he remembers..

fkit, this hand has me stumped. Ur hand looks like complete bollocks, but possibly as strong as fuck, he cant handread u here, which i think makes this a fold. tilt call and get showon Q10ss

Yeh pretty tough spot...  wp on flop by me [  ]

haha don't ever fold to neverscaredb

also i think he will know its you

i think the turn is rubbish too.
when you hit the turn, why do you call? if it's for him to bluff the river then you call river.
if you think he's betting turn knowing you're strong anyway etc, then just fold turn (having already folded flop) etc

as played, it depends how much he likes to bluff as it's not a great turn to 3 barrel bluff.

other things that would help are eg knowing whether he raises or calls more pre in position (ie how he plays small pairs), as well as knowing river bluffing frequencies etc

lol he 3b a small pair pre 0% of the time, just like anyone else with a clue.

man i got a ton of good advice in thread, but to be honest, im not sure how much i agree with you here. I mean, unless im completely stupid the turn plays itself, all i can do is check call. Check folding is pretty dumb and check raising just as bad (WITH stack sizes etc).
And OF COURSE he is NEVER 3betting me with a small pair here.
Also why is it not a good turn for him to barrel?? It is likely to fold out 88-tt type hands. Its just the river, its so strong for him to bet after i call the turn IMO. The fact he time banked for 40 seconds before jamming for slightly more than pot is something that i thought may have been mentioned... maybe not important, i dont know?

Just a silly hand to discuss as its such an unusual spot to be in because you took the worst possible lines to get here.

It's like asking us to analyse the tactics in an under 7's football match.

Shoot high, easy game.

sorry, meant mid pairs

as for the turn call, my point is whether he's bluffing or value betting he's usually gonna bet the river so betfolding and checkfolding aren't as bad as check calling

Make it easier, the only pairs he is going 3b are the ones he wants to get in.

Got there before me, sorry Alex

x

lol, thanks james

Really weird hand, such a strange line dunno how we expect to know where we are in this hand its like playing Russian roulette in the dark.. cbet flop fold to a reraise seems best line here. I think I pass the river after he time-banks, in my experience alot of players do this for value with the nuts (q10ss)/strong hands(sets/2pair).

gimme ur std line v unknown please.

bet fold flop

ur taking this line generally for the purpose of balancing?

edit, obv not, u mean as a standard line right?

and when villain calls and we reach turn?

on this specific board, we pc this turn hu or bet till get raised and re-eval?

Nah i probs fire a turn A, unless guy appears bad then i just check.

If we cbet the flop. I Think betting or checking the turn, would both be fine.

sound, so as played u b/f all 3 streets readless?

The river is a call because its vs NeverScaredB.  nsb us vv good but also vv aggro + has a reputation for making big bluffs, crai on rivers with air etc.  when the flop is checked to him hes going to fire 100% (or close to it).  Then when the hero calls hes probably giving the hero a range of weak Jacks, mid pairs.  The Ace in the turn is obv a good card to keep barreling so nsb will keep firing.  I think nsb will still assume you call the turn with weak jacks etc sometimes because he expects the hero to know that the ace is a good card to barrel.  when they get to the river nsb knows the heros most likely holding is a 1 pair hand and the river has brought another scare card so hes probably going to shove all his bluffs.  obv the villian is going to take this line with lots of hands for value  aswell but I think villian is definately capable of turning TT- into a bluff.  I think calling this river v nsb would be profitable.

Awesome post. :)

Errm not bet folding when i bink an Ace

Me neither

Is NeverScaredB = Brynn Kenney?

amen brother

How often do you play the early tilt 150?

I call, you've played scared/weak all thorugh the hand and the board looks scary now. He is jamming thinking that you just can't call because you can't have any idea what he has.

scared / weak huh? really.. AFTER the flop line (which is admittedly awful) the turn plays itself i think... what do you suggest i do on turn, donk into him? C/R?
As tom said earlier, villain is very good and it should have been a call vs HIM, but not vs some / most!

You are right you have played this super strong and aggressive...

Villain posts ridiculous 3 barrel spots on 2+2 and thinks he is better than he is. As played its a very easy call.

[ ] Good way to get people to fold to you when you 3 barrel, WP Villain.

Middys analyse of his range and his perceived view of our range is pretty much bang on. He is likely to show with a 87s etc a load because he perceives the board to improve street by street for 3 barreling into our range.

+1

+1000

Obv, because his range is polarised to sets/two pair and air hands. But this would rarely happen the likelyhood if we played this hand in this fashion (the correct line) is he just folds the turn or hero calls us with a jack on the turn, cos he knows the ace is a scare card we can rep. Ez game.

Ha first off this is the tilt 150, so quite a lot of that 2% is in this field.

Secondly if we overbet the turn (imo) and he raises then i would suggest his range is air and air, so would be fist pumping here.

Again i have only played this tournament ~300-500 times so i could be wrong on the ranges.

Disgusting brag ;)

For sure it might well be, i dont know about cash though, just comps.

In cash.. players will call down a Jack here and a big part of there floating range will be wheel draws meaning they've just turned an ace. Making this an easy turn to bet for value, and for when we are double-barrelling as a bluff against all medium and small pocket pairs. But if raised yeah its an easy fold in cash.

wtf? u cant just change our turn line, kinda the most retardedly pointless pha post ever. Obv if you overbet u snap it off but as played and we bet what we bet and then he raises, what u doing then?

eh? I said i think 2k is too much to bet on the turn....however as we have bet 2k....

ah wondered wtfwgo.  2k into 3k is overbet? thought was totally 100% standard no?

Min 3 to induce the 4 LDO :D

im folding to NSB in future [  ]