blonde poker forum

I think they did...

We're on the turn in a hand, the details of which are irrelevant.

Player A bets 2100.

Player B announces raise and throws in 2500 (2x1000, 1x500) then a further 4000 (4x1000).

Floor rule this as a min raise.


Seems a pretty clear raise to 6500 to me. Something about the 2500 being more than the 2100 required to call. He didn't have any change obv otherwise he'd have put in 2100.

spot on ruling imo


that is a min raise. anything he does after that is irrelevant, he's already minraised

I agree ... Count your chips out behind the line and put the lot in at once, it aint difficult ffs.

really tilts me when players announce "raise", then put the call in and dwell for ages trying to decide how much to raise.

Correct ruling.

But how is this a min raise? If you announce raise beforehand you can make two movements into the pot. The first to call and the second to put the raise amount in.

How is 2500 considered a min raise over the 2100? In any other situation this would be a clear cut call.

yeah it tilts me too lol, just not convinced that the raise shouldn't have stood.

ignore the second movement. if you say raise then put an amount of more than a call but less than a raise in the middle then it's a min raise, never a call

do what you like after that, put more chips in, stand in the middle of the table doing a banana dance, I really don't care, it's not going to change the fact that you just did a minraise

correct ruling


what would be the time penalty for standing in the middle of the table doing a banana dance please?

depends if you touch the pot with your banana feet. that would be a 1 rounder, just doing the dance without disturbing anything is probs just a warning for a first offence

ruling is good

Ruling is wrong imo.

As long as the guy clearly said "raise" before putting the 2500 in I think it's pretty obvious his intent is to call the 2100 and raise 4000.

To the letter of the law the ruling might be correct, but common sense should overrule any rule in poker imo.

The raiser should be given a 74 round penalty for being too stupid to just say "Raise to 6100 total"

you'd be my hero sir. that's enough!

How do we know his intention wasn't to call the 2100 and raise 4400?

I don't think his intention is clear at all.

Does he now want 400 change from his call? Or is the change from his raise?

I often do this. Thanks for confirming that my action is tilting. I was worried that I might be wasting my time.

example please of one of these any other situations in which saying raise before putting in chips is a clear cut call

Right, that's it ... I am off to delete my Congrats thread now !!

The 2500 is the call(dealer gives change doesnt he/she?) the 4k is the raise. Verdict=ruling wrong!

CF mentioned he/she had no 100 chips or would of put the 2100 in the pot 1st followed by the 4k, eh?

By the letter of law "poker" law the ruling is correct. Poker is no environment for employing common sense  ::)

LOL brilliant.

Fwiw I agree with Camel and Keys here. Why are people being so gay about this - it's clear the guy's intention is to put the 2500 as the amount he has to call before his raise.

meh, just f throw all chips in at once ffs

I dislike it. I think the 2500 is quite clearly his call, and the second movement is his raise - a move which he is perfectly entitled to make and something many players do. By the time the floor has arrived, I think it's quite obvious what has occurred. It's obviously something that can vary on the situation, but in this case, I think it's quite clear cut. He hasn't announced raise and tried to raise 2100 by 400 has he?

i think by the variety of opnions on this matter, shows that DTD didnt make a 'bad' call, just one you dont happen to agree with.

How is it clear?  It only becomes a possibility when he goes back to his stack.  Before that he could just be clueless about minraises.

Poker rules are there to maintain the integrity of the game. That and allow experienced players to intimerdate inexperienced/new players with cries of "that's a string bet" only for the inexperienced player to reply "what's a string bet".

Welcome to the game of poker.

I know what you are saying, but in most games and sports if newbies break the rules they get penalised, so why should poker be different.

The purpose of the string bet rule is to ensure that a players betting is concluded, so that other players can then act.  It should be updated to stop it being abused but newbies will still be caught out.

i think this ruling is taking rules to an extreme - don't like the ruling at all as it is fairly obvious what the guy is doing.

I don't like it when people raise like this either, a few old timers do it, but ruling seems harsh

Putting the call money in first before putting the raise in is the "I call youz and I raise youz" method of betting

Look, rules are there for punters to abide too, if we are not going to play to the rules whats the point in having them.

DTD run there club to a very high level of discipline, that's why they get bums on seats.

Either you want rules, or a free for all, the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Time to quote some rules :D From DTDs site:

Methods of Raising- In no-limit or pot-limit a raise must be made by (1) placing the full amount in the pot in one motion; or (2) verbally declaring the full amount prior to the initial placement of chips into the pot; or (3) verbally declaring "raise" prior to the placement of the amount to call into the pot and then completing the action with one additional motion.

So announcing raise and putting the call then the raise amount in seperate motions is ok. The obvious difference here is some of us think that the 2500 should be considered a call of the 2100 and others think it's a min raise. The reason I think it's clearly the call amount is that in a standard sitatuation of just facing a bet but not announcing raise we'd never consider the 2500 to be a min raise. Given that raising in 2 motions is allowable I don't see why we'd view the 2500 as anything other than the call amount of the previous bet. Sure, if he just sits there thinking he's done and hasn't noticed the 2100 then he needs to be held to a min raise, but otherwise we should just leave him to it and let him put his raise in.

when facing a bet of 2100 is the amount to call a) 2100 b) 2500 c) other?

I'll give you a clue. the answer is not b or c

a) obv

but throwing in 2x1000 and 1x500 is a valid way to call this bet. you expect change from the dealer.

you've quoted the rules that make your point a fail. time to give up imo

The difference between saying raise and throwing in exactly 2100 and 2500 is that the 2500 is ambiguous. Is it the call or have you missed the 2100 and intend to raise that much?

If you throw in 4000 chips after the 2500 as the raise then is the bet now 6100 or 6500?

According to QI a thread ends when someone mentions Nazis.

And the person who mentions them loses...

I hate to say it but Gatso, despite mentioning Nazis, wins.

CF manages a rule quote which fails in so many ways it has to be considered epic.

Right. So unless you've got exactly the correct amount, you can't use this method of raising?

Lol.

Anyone who raises this way shouldn't be playing poker anyway

lets change the facts here a moment. It is 2600 (blinds 50/100) to call and the guy has 2x5k chips. He says 'raise', throws one in, then waits 30 seconds and throws another one in.

Ruling now please?

Agreed. That's a significantly different scenario.

If a guy is sitting there with 2x5k chips in front of him he should have sorted some change by now. If he doesn't sort some change he's gonna be confusing the whole table with this flicking single 5k chips into the pot at 30 sec intervals business. My ruling would be to tell the player he's lost his 1st 5k chip for making such a hash of his bet. If he makes a fuss he loses his 2nd 5k chip and is asked to leave the game.

wtf r u loling about - of course you can't.  I know its sad, but the anal retentives who must place their chips in their special way are fckd if they don't make sure they have the right change.

How about he says. unfortunatly Mr Dealer I do not have the correct change. however I would like to raise xxx, not to hard is it?

It would be best if everybody announced their play before acting but that's not how it's done on the telly and it's not as flashy  ::)

How has this got to 4 pages?

Robert's Rules states that all Cf's ruling threads must be at least 4 pages long, especially when banana dances are mentioned.

I remember a famous quote about raise sizing.....

Haha - your Mum's a busted flush draw!