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Title: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: outragous76 on March 13, 2010, 01:49:05 AM my image is mostly solid - final 2 tables of stars 163 - it felt like i should but i couldnt do it
PokerStars Game #41074613738: Tournament #301011255, $150+$12 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (1000/2000) - 2010/03/13 1:31:58 UTC [2010/03/12 20:31:58 ET] Table '301011255 3' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: omsk70 (203325 in chips) Seat 3: RonaldKosh (91298 in chips) Seat 4: outragous76 (148844 in chips) Seat 5: Metsfan512 (56185 in chips) Seat 7: ante_geia_AA (53194 in chips) Seat 8: JChiles915 (65666 in chips) Seat 9: mookaramus (64748 in chips) omsk70: posts the ante 250 RonaldKosh: posts the ante 250 outragous76: posts the ante 250 Metsfan512: posts the ante 250 ante_geia_AA: posts the ante 250 JChiles915: posts the ante 250 mookaramus: posts the ante 250 Metsfan512: posts small blind 1000 ante_geia_AA: posts big blind 2000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to outragous76 [Kc Qc] JChiles915: folds mookaramus: folds omsk70: raises 2000 to 4000 RonaldKosh: raises 6900 to 10900 outragous76: folds Metsfan512: folds ante_geia_AA: folds omsk70: calls 6900 Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: mondatoo on March 13, 2010, 02:07:50 AM Don't really see how this thread could be more random,but yeah if you want ???
Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: outragous76 on March 13, 2010, 02:16:03 AM Don't really see how this thread could be more random,but yeah if you want ??? thanks for the valuable input im playing and wanted to post prior to loosing the HH, hence the brevity Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: George2Loose on March 13, 2010, 03:05:59 AM Need more info on opponents first Guy- your stack size is pretty good to 4 bet/fold- maybe make it 27k and fold if either shoves.
Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: paulhouk03 on March 13, 2010, 03:16:12 AM depends on what ur opponents are like
looks very strong tho if you do 4bet Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: NigDawG on March 13, 2010, 04:54:37 AM well without reads i'd fold...
Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: George2Loose on March 13, 2010, 08:38:53 AM well without reads i'd fold... Brammer speaks sense as usual. Think this is a spot you've found because your cards are so pretty when in reality if you're gonna cold 4 bet your cards in this situation are probably irrelevant unless of course in the highly unlikely event someone peels. Had you looked down at J6 off suit in this spot I doubt you'd have put up this post. Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: mondatoo on March 13, 2010, 10:07:18 AM Don't really see how this thread could be more random,but yeah if you want ??? thanks for the valuable input im playing and wanted to post prior to loosing the HH, hence the brevity It wasn't meant to be an unhappy face at the end of it :) Seriously though it's impossible to say unless you give info on players,As George said I'd rather do it with weaker holdings then KQsooted,97green would've had me tempted.It's a fold for me but 4bet bluffs are cool so nobody would say it was that bad if you'd tried it. Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: BulldozerD on March 13, 2010, 11:05:43 AM i'd just fold - i need some sort of history before even thinking about it
Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: outragous76 on March 13, 2010, 11:56:47 AM Ok then - reads
The big stack opener had been super active 4 tables out when he had a monster stack. He took a cooler and then tightened his belt. Within the last 3 orbits he has doubled thru to 200k and is a huge CL. He has started to open more frequently. I would say he is opening his entire range and some. Villain 2 - the 3 bettor - he has opened quit a few pots in late position. He has also 3 bet villain 1 twice that i recall - no show downs so he could have had hands. During the course of the last hour i have 3 bet him all in 5 times from his LP opens. The only hand he has seen is when he opened the button - i shipped AdQd from the sb and the BB snapped me with AQo. I see this player as competant but able to fold. I thought hard about this play. The way I saw it - if i cold 4 - then it doesnt look like i am folding. However if Villain 1 ships - then I obv do. I guess I am pretty much priced in to call whilst crying if villain 1 folds and villain 2 ships. I guess my initial question should have been - are the stack sizes right? I say this because my 4 bet isnt all in - which is pretty unusual. SO now there are 2 questions: 1. Are the stack sizes right (to get folds) 2. with reads - do you do it? Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: mondatoo on March 13, 2010, 12:09:07 PM I do like the stack sizes for this play and both players seem pretty active so it is a good spot,but as said I'd rather have 97/J8 type hands than KQ.
Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: GreekStein on March 13, 2010, 12:22:55 PM Yeah making it 24,400 or something is fine but I'm folding here.
Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: gatso on March 13, 2010, 12:30:20 PM fold it all day
much prefer to do this with crap so we don't get all attached to the hand and do our nuts when someone peels and it comes king high Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: MANTIS01 on March 13, 2010, 02:31:43 PM If you've pushed all-in 5 times against one of these villains in the last hour what is it about your 4-bet and your image that will frighten either of these players? If I had been 3-bet by the guy to my left 5x recently you can bet I'd be snapping his action very soon. Considering you've been active vs these players I think pure 4-bet bluffing vs sizeable stacks isn't the wisest use of your chips looking at the state of the game overall.
Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: outragous76 on March 13, 2010, 02:55:00 PM If you've pushed all-in 5 times against one of these villains in the last hour what is it about your 4-bet and your image that will frighten either of these players? If I had been 3-bet by the guy to my left 5x recently you can bet I'd be snapping his action very soon. Considering you've been active vs these players I think pure 4-bet bluffing vs sizeable stacks isn't the wisest use of your chips looking at the state of the game overall. if you are villain 2 what is your 5 bet shove range? i dont think that there are more than 5% of players who will bluff shove 5 bet here ( and 5% is hgh) - dont forget if i have bet to 30k - he doesnt have a tonne of FE Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: MANTIS01 on March 13, 2010, 03:38:11 PM If you've pushed all-in 5 times against one of these villains in the last hour what is it about your 4-bet and your image that will frighten either of these players? If I had been 3-bet by the guy to my left 5x recently you can bet I'd be snapping his action very soon. Considering you've been active vs these players I think pure 4-bet bluffing vs sizeable stacks isn't the wisest use of your chips looking at the state of the game overall. if you are villain 2 what is your 5 bet shove range? i dont think that there are more than 5% of players who will bluff shove 5 bet here ( and 5% is hgh) - dont forget if i have bet to 30k - he doesnt have a tonne of FE The 5-bet shove range for most people is going to be pretty tight isn't it? So I don't think it's wise to 4-bet bluff just because the 5-bet range of our oppos is small or we could always 4-bet bluff using that principle. Personally if I am going to 4-bet bluff two active players with live players behind I'd want a situation where my FE in the game was at it's highest possible. I don't think jamming 5x in recent times makes that so and as such it's a move I would personally avoid in this spot. I reckon my 5-bet range widens considerably vs some guy who keeps jamming on me though. Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: outragous76 on March 13, 2010, 04:10:54 PM If you've pushed all-in 5 times against one of these villains in the last hour what is it about your 4-bet and your image that will frighten either of these players? . Considering you've been active vs these players I think pure 4-bet bluffing vs sizeable stacks isn't the wisest use of your chips looking at the state of the game overall. if you are villain 2 what is your 5 bet shove range? i dont think that there are more than 5% of players who will bluff shove 5 bet here ( and 5% is hgh) - dont forget if i have bet to 30k - he doesnt have a tonne of FE The 5-bet shove range for most people is going to be pretty tight isn't it? So I don't think it's wise to 4-bet bluff just because the 5-bet range of our oppos is small or we could always 4-bet bluff using that principle. Personally if I am going to 4-bet bluff two active players with live players behind I'd want a situation where my FE in the game was at it's highest possible. I don't think jamming 5x in recent times makes that so and as such it's a move I would personally avoid in this spot. I reckon my 5-bet range widens considerably vs some guy who keeps jamming on me though. you should be a politician with answers like that buddy this is what you said "If I had been 3-bet by the guy to my left 5x recently you can bet I'd be snapping his action very soon" it infers you would do it light - im just saying i dont think so obviously for 95% of people their 5 bet range is pretty tight Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: MANTIS01 on March 13, 2010, 04:46:28 PM If you've pushed all-in 5 times against one of these villains in the last hour what is it about your 4-bet and your image that will frighten either of these players? . Considering you've been active vs these players I think pure 4-bet bluffing vs sizeable stacks isn't the wisest use of your chips looking at the state of the game overall. if you are villain 2 what is your 5 bet shove range? i dont think that there are more than 5% of players who will bluff shove 5 bet here ( and 5% is hgh) - dont forget if i have bet to 30k - he doesnt have a tonne of FE The 5-bet shove range for most people is going to be pretty tight isn't it? So I don't think it's wise to 4-bet bluff just because the 5-bet range of our oppos is small or we could always 4-bet bluff using that principle. Personally if I am going to 4-bet bluff two active players with live players behind I'd want a situation where my FE in the game was at it's highest possible. I don't think jamming 5x in recent times makes that so and as such it's a move I would personally avoid in this spot. I reckon my 5-bet range widens considerably vs some guy who keeps jamming on me though. you should be a politician with answers like that buddy this is what you said "If I had been 3-bet by the guy to my left 5x recently you can bet I'd be snapping his action very soon" it infers you would do it light - im just saying i dont think so obviously for 95% of people their 5 bet range is pretty tight Hey look, no doubt the move COULD work. But why not save that sort of move for spots when it has the BEST CHANCE of working. I don't think your chip position requires you to urgently chase "could work moves" vs the CL, especially considering your image. Sure, I wouldn't 5-bet light vs you but I wouldn't 3-bet villain 1 light from ep either if a guy round the back kept jamming on me. Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: George2Loose on March 13, 2010, 06:35:39 PM If you've pushed all-in 5 times against one of these villains in the last hour what is it about your 4-bet and your image that will frighten either of these players? If I had been 3-bet by the guy to my left 5x recently you can bet I'd be snapping his action very soon. Considering you've been active vs these players I think pure 4-bet bluffing vs sizeable stacks isn't the wisest use of your chips looking at the state of the game overall. if you are villain 2 what is your 5 bet shove range? i dont think that there are more than 5% of players who will bluff shove 5 bet here ( and 5% is hgh) - dont forget if i have bet to 30k - he doesnt have a tonne of FE Don't 4bet to 30k please. 22 will suffice. Then fold to a shove. If your read means you don't think this is a good idea, don't 4bet at all. 27 is a better number than 22. Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: railtard1 on March 13, 2010, 07:14:33 PM there u go kid http://www.pokerhand.org/?5264257
Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: outragous76 on March 13, 2010, 07:27:24 PM its not quite the same as you had opened UTG +1 and your bet was all in
Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: sovietsong on March 13, 2010, 08:25:17 PM there u go kid http://www.pokerhand.org/?5264257 nice Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: EvilPie on March 13, 2010, 09:20:51 PM there u go kid http://www.pokerhand.org/?5264257 [ ] cold 4 bet Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: Free_Rollin on March 15, 2010, 06:08:01 PM there u go kid http://www.pokerhand.org/?5264257 Hand contains: [X] cold 4 bet [X] 5bet bluff FYP The advice earlier from some posters that you could cold 4 bet bluff, then fold a reraise, is exploitable depending on your frequency of 4 bet bluffing. Railtard1's exploited it here by 5 bet jamming, which is why I'm not a huge fan of 4bet/folding too frequently or at all without reads. Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: Royal Flush on March 15, 2010, 09:13:10 PM Hmm 5 bet jamming at 120-240 v theczar19 is probs not the smartest play.
Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: NigDawG on March 16, 2010, 01:47:58 AM Hmm 5 bet jamming at 120-240 v theczar19 is probs not the smartest play. wow learned something from this thread, was always too lazy to look up who enterthewu was thanks Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: EvilPie on March 16, 2010, 12:54:02 PM Hmm 5 bet jamming at 120-240 with 2c 4c then posting it on a forum where similar stakes opponents post is probs not the smartest play. Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: Bongo on March 16, 2010, 03:51:06 PM Hmm 5 bet jamming at 120-240 with Ac Ad, editing the HH to 4c 2c then posting it on a forum where similar stakes opponents post is probs the smartest play. Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: George2Loose on March 16, 2010, 03:59:53 PM Hmm 5 bet jamming at 120-240 with Ac Ad, editing the HH to 4c 2c then posting it on a forum where similar stakes opponents post is probs the smartest play. Can u edit hands on pokerorg? Title: Re: is this a good spot to cold 4 pre Post by: Bongo on March 16, 2010, 04:07:36 PM Hmm 5 bet jamming at 120-240 with Ac Ad, editing the HH to 4c 2c then posting it on a forum where similar stakes opponents post is probs the smartest play. Can u edit hands on pokerorg? Just edit the HH before you upload it. |