blonde poker forum

Game: £500 +50 ME GUKPT Summer Series Walsall

Blinds 400/800 Antes 75

20 players remain, my table gets broken and I get moved. First hand and I'm under the gun and get dealt JJ I raise
to 4.2k from a 26k stack, mid position flats (known capable aggressive player) from a 30+k stack, passed round to the button who thinks and thinks then pushes all in with 20k.
Never seen this young player before (looked like Screech from Saved by the bell).
After a 10 second think I fold.
Now my thoughts were (a) wasn't happy about the flat call from the mid position, thought he may be holding premium cards and (b) I couldn't take the screech lookalike seriously but felt that his nervous look could be just inexperience.

Any thoughts welcome.

Raise less pre, fold to shove.

Why are you raising more than 5x pre!?

terrible raise pre - make it 2k

probs a fold - but that said if ive got 4.2 in there i might call

The standard of play at my previous table was pretty tez and the 5x raise was pretty much what it took to get a fold and when I raised I pretty much just carried over with me.

I agree the raise was wrong I was also happy with the fold until after the hand a couple of regs told me Screech was shoving more than anyone else on the table.

What miffed me about my fold was that after that he shoved loads more times and within an hour was a monster chip leader.....




....and I bubbled  :(

This^


But once youve made it 4.2k and theres a flat, once he jams for 20k we gotta get this in.

but im shite, and i dont even have a fkin flag so wtf do i know

lol Rich.

This is flawed thinking. A lot of people think this way too.

Why do you not want people to call when you have this hand?

If people weren't folding to 5*ing would u then start 9xing or shoving?

Never folding FWIW with your raise size he could be jamming hella wide. You hand doesn't actually look as strong as it is. God knows what geezer behind is flatting with.

raise less pre, snap now.

World Of Warcraft

lol, had to be said i think.

I agree that it was flawed thinking for the new table but the original table was very weak and many blinds and antes were won like this. Is this still flawed thinking in this scenario?
I don't mind anyone calling just not too happy with people shoving over the top

Not sure really, depends on table make up. Now I'm confused.

Not sure what the flatter had, that's why I ultimately folded. Unfortunately he folded too.

you're gettinf over 2.5/1 immediate.

he has 20bbs, there's been a raise (allbeit a large one from ep and a flat call) it's a protected pot and if he wins it uncontested he adds over 50% to his stack, he'l be shoving pretty wide I think.


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

   1,797,919,200  games     5.376 secs   334,434,375  games/sec

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    63.393%     62.87%    00.52%        1130373528      9376542.00   { JJ }
Hand 1:    36.607%     36.09%    00.52%         648792588      9376542.00   { 55+, A2s+, KQs, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, ATo+, KQo }


---
maybe a liiiitle bit wide, but you could add all broadways too, left out q10s etc, I think this is the most ridic standard call.

My advice is don't go playing pots with Jeff Williams
(http://www.lasvegasvegas.com/pokerblog/081108-22.jpg)

Yep

Never get caught up in the 5x crowd its just plain bad.

what credit crunch?

ewwww, sorry, don't like it at all.

The raise size is terrible. We have pocket jacks. We don't want to pick up the blinds/antes - we want action. We somehow now have action - get it in.

Cheers all for the advice.
I've taken it all onboard.

Summary
Don't raise 5x Pre
Don't be a pussy and get it in facing an all in shove from apriced in shover.

Thanks again

Yeah mate, 2.2k UTG for me. 5x is bad because you don't know what any further action will mean as it's 1st hand at this table, so it's an expensive way to find out nothing at all. Obv your aspirations to take the blinds rather than get action need to be addressed, as does implementing stuff that worked from last table at this new table. Don't mind flat calling UTG either.

lol, why?

Because the game is shallow, the SPR will be realistically forcing us to commit if we get raised, is the table loose or tight? guessing with jacks for our stack 1st hand at a new table is tez, we have zero info so we don't have any ranges for any player so can't actually make an informed decision, we will be oop in the hand, limping disguises the strength of our hand, limping may encourage a ss to jam and we can snap, we can choose to raise if our limp is raised or see a flop cheaper than a 3bet pot. So quite a few reasons why I don't mind it as an alternative 1st hand at a new table. Why lol?

'lol' because i think it's terrible.

.YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTY

Obviously raise less pre as has been said, definitely re-shoving here...

im struggling to fold a Jack with another Jack off this stack - and im certainly not going to find reasons to do it by limping utg just because i have just sat down

you can trade off a "he is trying to set the tone" image by raising the 1st hand and hope to find teh "ill put you in your place player" at the same time

It is shallow

Raise+Snap>>>>Open Fold>>>>Limp

Would you still re-shove if original raise was 2.5x?

Is it ok to have a limp/call/raise range utg?

fyp and the answer is no!

The answer isn't no. If a couple of other players have say 10bbs then limping with these blinds and antes can prompt a shove where a raise would prompt a fold. That's just one example.

neil channing writes that he limps a lot and gets LOLed at by everyone but he seems to do OK

I played with him at GUKPT London back in March, and yeah, he was doing it a lot. I was probably on his table for like an hour or two before getting moved, and this was on day 2, with about 50 people left and around 36 were getting paid. I thought it was really strange, and not sure why he was limping from both early position and late position.

He obviously thinks his strength is much greater post flop rather than pre, but I really can't say I think this was effective? Think Toby was on his table for much longer than I was, maybe if he sees this thread he can comment on it.

edit to add: lol, Neil finished 2nd btw, and I bubbled. :)

neil channing has far superior skills post flop to most players

limping pre is usually bad

middy tells me not to
middy is greater than most
ill stick with middy thanks

but seriously - my jape aside, limping pre with JJ here is pretty bad. How are you looking to proceed if ur 10bb stacks limp too?

the standard as described in OP is terribad (i mean generally - not the OP) - and as such raise and play the hand for value - dont flat and self level.

Players this bad are not jamming ATC and hoping they have fold equity - infact if they are reading this they didnt understand that last line

He limps loads when stacks are deep. You won't see Neil just chucking blinds in when he's 30 bigs deep.

However, Neil does it with his entire range which is ok if that's what you are doing and you have the post flop skills he does to be able to do it effectively.

Limping UTG with big hands is generally what bad players who play too much live poker do. They think it disguises their hand when in fact it does the opposite.

My second example of why limping UTG is profitable in live poker is because players who know just enough always put you on the nuts when you limp.

LOL.

According to your hendon mob, you don't look like a winning player, so what do you know about profitable plays?

Burn

im all for people opening 5x and folding to the squeeze all in  :D

also lol at some of the replies itt