blonde poker forum

Poker Forums => Poker Hand Analysis => Topic started by: 810ofclubs on July 25, 2010, 03:13:06 PM



Title: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: 810ofclubs on July 25, 2010, 03:13:06 PM
10£-25£ live game 2 seats straddling in a 9max

Stacks are Villian 5k£ish, co 4k£ish, hero covers both.

Villian is a "reg" in the live games in london, limps nearly all of his range preflop, when isoed he folds, calls and raises. History shows he is raising QQ+ without AK calling nearly every pair and folding random limped hands unless he is getting a  "good price" 3 or more have already called behind lol. When in a hand he bets large proportions of the pot most of the time and is quite obv to me when strong / not folding made hands. Also does not play draws quickly ie always takes one off b4 putting money in the middle, a proper dirty nit and maybe a small winner.

Utg limps, villian limps, hj limps, co limps, hero otb with  3h 3s limps, sb completes and bb checks. Pot is 175£

Flop  Kd 8h 3s checks to the hj who bets 100£ a single chip, co folds, i call and the villian quickly makes it 375£, co folds and i think for a while and call.

Turn  6c no bd flush availible. Villian bets 900£. Hero tanks folds.

Basically i felt like a dirty lil nit after folding here, but even this morning i feel like its a good fold. Also any1 think i can consider folding the flop here? I mean he NEVER has a bluff range here so i guess K8s is poss deffo not K8o, then KK, AA and 88. 1005 think he is leading AK on the flop and deffo never c/ring.

Thoughts? (dont want ppl telling me wat to do preflop btw lol)


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: GreekStein on July 25, 2010, 03:18:01 PM
if you think he wouldn't play AA/AK this way too then I think you made a good fold


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: DMorgan on July 25, 2010, 03:24:16 PM
When you say that he limps almost all of his range pre, do you reckon he's still limping AA/KK UTG+1 after an UTG limp?

Sounds like you have solid reads on this guy so it'd be a good fold as long as we're sure that he won't spaz out and overplay Kx like this


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 03:24:27 PM
die nits, but we haz set :(


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: 810ofclubs on July 25, 2010, 03:27:49 PM
When you say that he limps almost all of his range pre, do you reckon he's still limping AA/KK UTG+1 after an UTG limp?

Sounds like you have solid reads on this guy so it'd be a good fold as long as we're sure that he won't spaz out and overplay Kx like this

100% still poss that he will overlimp

cos AA and AK deffo lead the flop


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: 810ofclubs on July 25, 2010, 03:29:22 PM
die nits, but we haz set :(

prob the nittest of them all sighs


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 03:30:15 PM
die nits, but we haz set :(

prob the nittest of them all sighs

This is why I kinda hate/love live, plays like this seem correct. How can that ever be right sigh.


niiiiiiiiiiiiits


(nice stack size brag btw) :)up


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: DMorgan on July 25, 2010, 03:34:55 PM
When you say that he limps almost all of his range pre, do you reckon he's still limping AA/KK UTG+1 after an UTG limp?

Sounds like you have solid reads on this guy so it'd be a good fold as long as we're sure that he won't spaz out and overplay Kx like this

100% still poss that he will overlimp

cos AA and AK deffo lead the flop

Then his range has to be KK, 88 and K8s and there are only 2 combos of K8s and 6 of KK and 88 so nice fold


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: booder on July 25, 2010, 03:35:07 PM
Is he really leading pot size on the turn with a set?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 03:37:58 PM
Is he really leading pot size on the turn with a set?

what are we hoping, that he suddenly c/r 79ss because he knows how nitty he looks and it's a dry board, and then bink turn to allow him to continue?

is it me or is K8s generous for a nit.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: booder on July 25, 2010, 03:42:08 PM
Surely if he has a set he wants to keep oppo in the hand, there are very few hands that are calling a pot size bet there.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 03:47:05 PM
Surely if he has a set he wants to keep oppo in the hand, there are very few hands that are calling a pot size bet there.

nits make a hand and bet. that's what they do. (some nits don't even bet often enough lol)


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: George2Loose on July 25, 2010, 04:11:01 PM
Would we not be better on calling the turn and folding most rivers?  If he has it he will barrell again if not we can get some value? Or is it too much a spew?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 04:13:33 PM
Would we not be better on calling the turn and folding most rivers?  If he has it he will barrell again if not we can get some value? Or is it too much a spew?

what worse is he vbetting? just K8s.

what hands/frequency is he 'bluffing' with?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: kinboshi on July 25, 2010, 04:27:55 PM
Would we not be better on calling the turn and folding most rivers?  If he has it he will barrell again if not we can get some value? Or is it too much a spew?

what worse is he vbetting? just K8s.

what hands/frequency is he 'bluffing' with?

Andy is desperately trying to find a reason to call :D


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: George2Loose on July 25, 2010, 04:44:21 PM
Would we not be better on calling the turn and folding most rivers?  If he has it he will barrell again if not we can get some value? Or is it too much a spew?

what worse is he vbetting? just K8s.

what hands/frequency is he 'bluffing' with?

If he never takes this line with 1 pair then I guess a fold is fine. What would be his default line with AK here then? Bet flop and then check call mode? Granted there's no two pair combo's out there and the board is super dry.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 04:49:16 PM
Would we not be better on calling the turn and folding most rivers?  If he has it he will barrell again if not we can get some value? Or is it too much a spew?

what worse is he vbetting? just K8s.

what hands/frequency is he 'bluffing' with?

Andy is desperately trying to find a reason to call :D

That's poker, put them on two cards you can beat and CAWL



folding sets is pooooooey me no likey even if its best play !!  ;grr;


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 04:52:45 PM
I call turn and call river. Seriously. We have a set. WTF?

surely if anything it's a peel turn and then make decision on river, which if he bets will involve lots of wincing.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Rupert on July 25, 2010, 04:56:53 PM
given ur read shouldnt u fold the flop? cos if hes bluff raising ever u should probs call the turn unless hes just decided to give up


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 05:09:42 PM
Is there ever a chance he's making a play on the dry board because of his image? if so then we have to peel flop if not sigh and fold and wish we could have been up against anyone else in the hand?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: paulhouk03 on July 25, 2010, 05:36:15 PM
[ ] folding a set on a dry rainbow board
I'm not good enough to fold a set ever on this board



Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: pleno1 on July 25, 2010, 07:28:59 PM
loled hard at skolsupers Channing post. wpwpwpw.

1. we have a set so im not folding.

2. amirite in thinking you're Toby Lewis? If so, I'm gussing you're playing really aggro so his bet sizes can mean 2 things.

1) "he's an internet kid, i got him this time I'm going to bet huge and he'; def call me as he showed 85s in one hand last week"

2) "he never believes me he prob has 78s, if i make a big bet here he prob folds"

I think he prob has AA/AK/88.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: action man on July 25, 2010, 07:31:39 PM
fold pre


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: EvilPie on July 25, 2010, 07:42:22 PM
If you don't do this

fold pre

Your intention should be to do this:

I call turn and call river. Seriously. We have a set. WTF?

I don't know if you usually play at these limits but would you have folded if you were facing a £400 stack at a 1/2 table?

200 bigs doesn't seem deep enough to be passing a set on such a dry board.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: kinboshi on July 25, 2010, 07:43:21 PM
Is there ever a chance he's making a play on the dry board because of his image? if so then we have to peel flop if not sigh and fold and wish we could have been up against anyone else in the hand?

Keep going Andy... :D


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 09:08:04 PM

Is there ever a chance he's making a play on the dry board because of his image? if so then we have to peel flop if not sigh and fold and wish we could have been up against anyone else in the hand?

Keep going Andy... :D

points for trying pls.


And pie that is evil, nowhere here has the amount been mentioned as a problem, it's the fact we don't think we beat anything he plays this way.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: GreekStein on July 25, 2010, 09:46:21 PM

Is there ever a chance he's making a play on the dry board because of his image? if so then we have to peel flop if not sigh and fold and wish we could have been up against anyone else in the hand?

Keep going Andy... :D

points for trying pls.


And pie that is evil, nowhere here has the amount been mentioned as a problem, it's the fact we don't think we beat anything he plays this way.


Who said you could comment in this thread?

You short handed specialists know nothing about full ring


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 09:51:41 PM

Is there ever a chance he's making a play on the dry board because of his image? if so then we have to peel flop if not sigh and fold and wish we could have been up against anyone else in the hand?

Keep going Andy... :D

points for trying pls.


And pie that is evil, nowhere here has the amount been mentioned as a problem, it's the fact we don't think we beat anything he plays this way.


Who said you could comment in this thread?

You short handed specialists know nothing about full ring


6 max is just 9 max with 3 nits assumed to have folded napkins. :)up

Against some of the guys in the vic (i'm assuming this is there) they can be diagf-esque nits.



Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Skgv on July 25, 2010, 09:54:45 PM
Think u play the hand about right !


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: pleno1 on July 25, 2010, 09:56:30 PM
are people serious about folding pre?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: George2Loose on July 25, 2010, 10:20:05 PM
Think u play the hand about right !

U gonna brown nose Toby on every single thread? :P


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: EvilPie on July 25, 2010, 10:28:04 PM

Is there ever a chance he's making a play on the dry board because of his image? if so then we have to peel flop if not sigh and fold and wish we could have been up against anyone else in the hand?

Keep going Andy... :D

points for trying pls.


And pie that is evil, nowhere here has the amount been mentioned as a problem, it's the fact we don't think we beat anything he plays this way.


If oppo is that easy to read then fair enough. Are we saying that he doesn't have a single move in his arsenal?

He's playing in a pretty big game here so surely we can't assume he's 100% abc?

If he is then fair enuff we fold. We probably shouldn't be playing against him though.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 10:33:58 PM

Is there ever a chance he's making a play on the dry board because of his image? if so then we have to peel flop if not sigh and fold and wish we could have been up against anyone else in the hand?

Keep going Andy... :D

points for trying pls.


And pie that is evil, nowhere here has the amount been mentioned as a problem, it's the fact we don't think we beat anything he plays this way.


If oppo is that easy to read then fair enough. Are we saying that he doesn't have a single move in his arsenal?

He's playing in a pretty big game here so surely we can't assume he's 100% abc?

If he is then fair enuff we fold. We probably shouldn't be playing against him though.


We're not 'against him' though we're at a 9 handed table and he's there too, he's just wasting a seat if he's playing that face up.



Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: jezza777 on July 25, 2010, 10:47:55 PM
In live cash we should be raising this otb for pure value.  Now we have a set - thats like 3 of a kind so I am pretty much never passing.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: pleno1 on July 25, 2010, 10:52:14 PM
folding 0%
raising 1%
calling 99%


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 25, 2010, 11:01:27 PM
In live cash we should be raising this otb for pure value.  Now we have a set - thats like 3 of a kind so I am pretty much never passing.

are you talking about raising pre or on the flop?

pre is a flat cawl


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: jezza777 on July 25, 2010, 11:12:16 PM
 pre flop I think it is a raise , 33 is ahead of most live pre flop limps and raises.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: EvilPie on July 25, 2010, 11:24:02 PM

Is there ever a chance he's making a play on the dry board because of his image? if so then we have to peel flop if not sigh and fold and wish we could have been up against anyone else in the hand?

Keep going Andy... :D

points for trying pls.


And pie that is evil, nowhere here has the amount been mentioned as a problem, it's the fact we don't think we beat anything he plays this way.


If oppo is that easy to read then fair enough. Are we saying that he doesn't have a single move in his arsenal?

He's playing in a pretty big game here so surely we can't assume he's 100% abc?

If he is then fair enuff we fold. We probably shouldn't be playing against him though.


We're not 'against him' though we're at a 9 handed table and he's there too, he's just wasting a seat if he's playing that face up.



But he's in this pot that we've just limped in to.

Surely if we're considering passing a set to him we should just avoid him. How are we ever going to win a pot against him?

Yes we'll pick up a few quid when he limp folds or check/folds a flop but we're literally never going to win a big pot because we are saying that we automatically assume he always has us beat unless he folds.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: DMorgan on July 25, 2010, 11:27:15 PM
If oppo is that easy to read then fair enough. Are we saying that he doesn't have a single move in his arsenal?

He's playing in a pretty big game here so surely we can't assume he's 100% abc?

If he is then fair enuff we fold. We probably shouldn't be playing against him though.

Playing 9 handed with 8 of this guy is printing money, DUCY?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: EvilPie on July 25, 2010, 11:31:07 PM
If oppo is that easy to read then fair enough. Are we saying that he doesn't have a single move in his arsenal?

He's playing in a pretty big game here so surely we can't assume he's 100% abc?

If he is then fair enuff we fold. We probably shouldn't be playing against him though.

Playing 9 handed with 8 of this guy is printing money, DUCY?

Yup. Not if we fold every time they bet and we haven't got the stone cold nuts though.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: ChipRich on July 26, 2010, 12:08:33 AM
I call turn and call river. Seriously. We have a set. WTF?

This^


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: railtard1 on July 26, 2010, 12:18:05 AM
call turn and river...

worst case scenario, we have one out.. and you are toby lewis ;-)


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: mondatoo on July 26, 2010, 12:32:36 AM
Never folding on this board even vs a nit


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: NigDawG on July 26, 2010, 12:46:35 AM
if you think he wouldn't play AA/AK this way too then I think you made a good fold

+1


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: GreekStein on July 26, 2010, 12:54:58 AM
if you think he wouldn't play AA/AK this way too then I think you made a good fold

+1

incred.


If oppo is that easy to read then fair enough. Are we saying that he doesn't have a single move in his arsenal?

He's playing in a pretty big game here so surely we can't assume he's 100% abc?

If he is then fair enuff we fold. We probably shouldn't be playing against him though.

Playing 9 handed with 8 of this guy is printing money, DUCY?

In the same way that pulling a needle and knotted thread through your eyelid repeatedly for £2 a go is printing money.

ha brilliant.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: 810ofclubs on July 26, 2010, 02:13:16 AM
pre flop I think it is a raise , 33 is ahead of most live pre flop limps and raises.

dont play live alot do u jezza


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: 810ofclubs on July 26, 2010, 02:37:58 AM
I call turn and call river. Seriously. We have a set. WTF?

pretty terribad way of thinking about this hand imo, ive stressed in the original post that the villian is very very tight and plays very face up. saying we hav a set u cant ever fold means that ur not thinking that this is in a 10-25 london cash game wher the guy has bet 900 english sterling pounds in a pot now for me / you this is 900 and not 900£ like it is to the villian.  


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: celtic on July 26, 2010, 02:40:48 AM
If it was anybody else at the table, would you have folded Toby?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: 810ofclubs on July 26, 2010, 03:06:49 AM
If it was anybody else at the table, would you have folded Toby?

depends obv all player dependent. but on that specific table i wouldnt hav folded to any1 else no.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Skgv on July 26, 2010, 04:56:10 AM
If it was anybody else at the table, would you have folded Toby?

depends obv all player dependent. but on that specific table i wouldnt hav folded to any1 else no.
ok u played the hand correct in this instance so well done an get the chavs to talk about something more challenging !


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: DMorgan on July 26, 2010, 05:34:17 AM
If oppo is that easy to read then fair enough. Are we saying that he doesn't have a single move in his arsenal?

He's playing in a pretty big game here so surely we can't assume he's 100% abc?

If he is then fair enuff we fold. We probably shouldn't be playing against him though.

Playing 9 handed with 8 of this guy is printing money, DUCY?

In the same way that pulling a needle and knotted thread through your eyelid repeatedly for £2 a go is printing money.

Well it'd be almost as low variance


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: EvilPie on July 26, 2010, 08:33:58 AM
Given all these reads that he's such a massive nit and must have your set beat why did you call the flop?

This suggests that you think he's capable of having at least one stab at a pot without the nuts.

What hand could he check/raise the flop with that at the time you thought you were beating?



Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: pleno1 on July 26, 2010, 11:40:58 AM
im not a big fan of folding ever really because i want to see the villians cards lol

really cool fold imo


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: TheChipPrince on July 26, 2010, 11:56:03 AM
Did he show?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: pleno1 on July 26, 2010, 12:11:59 PM
if you could see one of his cards, like he gave you an option before you made a decision and he showed you the   Kd what do you do?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: DMorgan on July 26, 2010, 12:24:41 PM
if you could see one of his cards, like he gave you an option before you made a decision and he showed you the   Kd what do you do?

Never fold because people almost never show one when they have a pair in their hand


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 26, 2010, 01:34:04 PM
I call turn and call river. Seriously. We have a set. WTF?

pretty terribad way of thinking about this hand imo, ive stressed in the original post that the villian is very very tight and plays very face up. saying we hav a set u cant ever fold means that ur not thinking that this is in a 10-25 london cash game wher the guy has bet 900 english sterling pounds in a pot now for me / you this is 900 and not 900£ like it is to the villian. 

If the answer depends entirely on your special understanding of the dynamics between you and villain then I don't see the purpose of the thread. So you can say to people they are wrong because they don't understand the situation as well as you do? I would wake up the next day and still feel like a horrible nit for folding this. His tendencies are only part of the answer, they are tendancies, maybe he read something about being aggro with tp since last time he played you, maybe he saw Gus Hanson play K-Q this way on the telly, maybe he thinks he's value-towning a LAG, any of those things are as likely as he has a set of Kings. If you are saying he never never has less than a set what's the question again?? Never folding the turn myself. 


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: SuuPRlim on July 26, 2010, 01:43:18 PM
I call turn and call river. Seriously. We have a set. WTF?

pretty terribad way of thinking about this hand imo, ive stressed in the original post that the villian is very very tight and plays very face up. saying we hav a set u cant ever fold means that ur not thinking that this is in a 10-25 london cash game wher the guy has bet 900 english sterling pounds in a pot now for me / you this is 900 and not 900£ like it is to the villian. 

If the answer depends entirely on your special understanding of the dynamics between you and villain then I don't see the purpose of the thread. So you can say to people they are wrong because they don't understand the situation as well as you do? I would wake up the next day and still feel like a horrible nit for folding this. His tendencies are only part of the answer, they are tendancies, maybe he read something about being aggro with tp since last time he played you, maybe he saw Gus Hanson play K-Q this way on the telly, maybe he thinks he's value-towning a LAG, any of those things are as likely as he has a set of Kings. If you are saying he never never has less than a set what's the question again?? Never folding the turn myself. 


The OP was describing the dynamic and giving an insight to reads and history with the villian, because the question is NOT how me, you or anyone would have played the hand, but asking for us to critique the hand as played, and offer any worthwhile opinons on how our HERO played the hand....so that is the point of the thread.

My opinion.
I would fold on the turn vs the generic live super nit I play with in my games. I would DEFO NOT TELL ANYONE THO ;)


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: kinboshi on July 26, 2010, 02:02:46 PM
He's metagaming - telling us he folds sets.  Never happened ;)


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Skgv on July 26, 2010, 02:41:24 PM
I call turn and call river. Seriously. We have a set. WTF?

pretty terribad way of thinking about this hand imo, ive stressed in the original post that the villian is very very tight and plays very face up. saying we hav a set u cant ever fold means that ur not thinking that this is in a 10-25 london cash game wher the guy has bet 900 english sterling pounds in a pot now for me / you this is 900 and not 900£ like it is to the villian. 

If the answer depends entirely on your special understanding of the dynamics between you and villain then I don't see the purpose of the thread. So you can say to people they are wrong because they don't understand the situation as well as you do? I would wake up the next day and still feel like a horrible nit for folding this. His tendencies are only part of the answer, they are tendancies, maybe he read something about being aggro with tp since last time he played you, maybe he saw Gus Hanson play K-Q this way on the telly, maybe he thinks he's value-towning a LAG, any of those things are as likely as he has a set of Kings. If you are saying he never never has less than a set what's the question again?? Never folding the turn myself. 
Once again getting way to complex for me with advanced english being used!! think in general people commenting on this have to realise that at certain levels making these sort of passes are the reason why some people can make it up to the level of £10 £25 blinds ai its not always a case of ive got a set its a cooler. Probaly if hero only has 200bb then its always going in but sometimes the money influences the mind to be scared an convinces them to believe the player has him beat. But the player toby has described would be probaly likely to have kk or 88,almost reminds me of my game a few years back! But i have to sort of agree a bit woth keys as alot of solid players do have random spazz outs an be creative at times an get away with ridicolous plays. an to be honest TOBY LEWIS PASSES A SET ! wow !


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: david3103 on July 26, 2010, 03:13:57 PM
I'm not especially good at the poker but given the description of villain I''d not be surprised to learn that he limps in with 88 and it's pretty safe to assume that he knows hero doesn't limp in with KK


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 26, 2010, 03:16:34 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: outragous76 on July 26, 2010, 03:23:09 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.

ta dah  :D


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 26, 2010, 03:56:00 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.




errrrrm you make it to that level being able to play against peoples specific ranges and making the best plays you can not saying i've made an absolute hand strength im unable to fold, nothing like binking a few donkies to help you be rolled for it though. And you do realise, that there are lots of old men in London with lots of money who believe 'tight is right'? There are also tonnes of people with more money than the ability to use logic and reason?!


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: kinboshi on July 26, 2010, 04:06:02 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.




errrrrm you make it to that level being able to play against peoples specific ranges and making the best plays you can not saying i've made an absolute hand strength im unable to fold, nothing like binking a few donkies to help you be rolled for it though. And you do realise, that there are lots of old men in London with lots of money who believe 'tight is right'? There are also tonnes of people with more money than the ability to use logic and reason?!

You're not helping your argument for the call here.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 26, 2010, 04:24:58 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.




errrrrm you make it to that level being able to play against peoples specific ranges and making the best plays you can not saying i've made an absolute hand strength im unable to fold, nothing like binking a few donkies to help you be rolled for it though. And you do realise, that there are lots of old men in London with lots of money who believe 'tight is right'? There are also tonnes of people with more money than the ability to use logic and reason?!

You're not helping your argument for the call here.


WE HAZ SETTTTTT


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 26, 2010, 04:25:12 PM
that's another +1 for the calling argument :)up


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Rupert on July 26, 2010, 04:26:56 PM
i think i prefer fold face up and never fold to him in future pots than fold face down fwiw


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 26, 2010, 05:07:34 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.




errrrrm you make it to that level being able to play against peoples specific ranges and making the best plays you can not saying i've made an absolute hand strength im unable to fold, nothing like binking a few donkies to help you be rolled for it though. And you do realise, that there are lots of old men in London with lots of money who believe 'tight is right'? There are also tonnes of people with more money than the ability to use logic and reason?!

Why can't a tight player who is rich think Ak or KQ plays well vs the range of his much looser opponent?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: GreekStein on July 26, 2010, 05:22:35 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.

lol how the fk do u come to that conclusion?

Do you think Guy Laliberte was playing $1k/2k online because he managed to grind his way through the ranks?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 26, 2010, 05:47:46 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.




errrrrm you make it to that level being able to play against peoples specific ranges and making the best plays you can not saying i've made an absolute hand strength im unable to fold, nothing like binking a few donkies to help you be rolled for it though. And you do realise, that there are lots of old men in London with lots of money who believe 'tight is right'? There are also tonnes of people with more money than the ability to use logic and reason?!

Why can't a tight player who is rich think Ak or KQ plays well vs the range of his much looser opponent?


sigh i'm just making the point that most of the people in this game haven't ground their br's from the small games up.

There are alot of idiots in the world, and sadly/luckily alot have money. If this guy is playing his cards as the reads suggest not 'poker' then it's a fold and maybe go home and open jam plo microstakes for a while to detilt. rotflmfao


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: SuuPRlim on July 26, 2010, 05:58:44 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.

Dearie me.

here we go hope this helps
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQuw4CfMlOg

EDIT* how the fuuuuuuuk do i EMBED this youtube clip :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQuw4CfMlOg



Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 26, 2010, 06:01:26 PM
Sorry, I ask again, if villain only ever shows up here with 88 or KK and that's a fact from reads/history what is the purpose of the thread??


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: SuuPRlim on July 26, 2010, 06:05:07 PM
Sorry, I ask again, if villain only ever shows up here with 88 or KK and that's a fact from reads/history what is the purpose of the thread??

omg. The OP describes how he played the hand. Explains why he played it like that and is asking for opinions on his play, if you think villians range is wider, and would have taken a different line for w/e reason then please explain and contribute.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: George2Loose on July 26, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
I'm with mantis.


DELETE PHA BOARD PLZ MODS


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: GreekStein on July 26, 2010, 06:22:45 PM
I'm with mantis.


DELETE PHA BOARD PLZ MODS

this is why your wife makes more at poker than you do now.

I hope you always remember fondly the times when you won at pokers


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 26, 2010, 06:23:35 PM
Sorry, I ask again, if villain only ever shows up here with 88 or KK and that's a fact from reads/history what is the purpose of the thread??

omg. The OP describes how he played the hand. Explains why he played it like that and is asking for opinions on his play, if you think villians range is wider, and would have taken a different line for w/e reason then please explain and contribute.

OP has already stated that hand is player dependant, he wouldn't fold to anyone else, but he folded specifically vs this guy because of the personal history/read which polarises villain's hand to the nuts. So what kind of contribution do you think is valid/helpful to the hand in question from people who don't know or have never played with villain?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: George2Loose on July 26, 2010, 06:24:20 PM
I'm with mantis.


DELETE PHA BOARD PLZ MODS

this is why your wife makes more at poker than you do now.

I hope you always remember fondly the times when you won at pokers

I do. Sigh. There;s a tourney in notts this weekend so I may yet win another 1!


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: SuuPRlim on July 26, 2010, 06:26:37 PM
Sorry, I ask again, if villain only ever shows up here with 88 or KK and that's a fact from reads/history what is the purpose of the thread??

omg. The OP describes how he played the hand. Explains why he played it like that and is asking for opinions on his play, if you think villians range is wider, and would have taken a different line for w/e reason then please explain and contribute.

OP has already stated that hand is player dependant, he wouldn't fold to anyone else, but he folded specifically vs this guy because of the personal history/read which polarises villain's hand to the nuts. So what kind of contribution do you think is valid/helpful to the hand in question from people who don't know or have never played with villain?

I know what isnt any use.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Skgv on July 26, 2010, 07:12:38 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.
No smarty pants hes obvioulsy a succesful buissnessman as welll i would like to think! x


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Skgv on July 26, 2010, 07:20:32 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.




errrrrm you make it to that level being able to play against peoples specific ranges and making the best plays you can not saying i've made an absolute hand strength im unable to fold, nothing like binking a few donkies to help you be rolled for it though. And you do realise, that there are lots of old men in London with lots of money who believe 'tight is right'? There are also tonnes of people with more money than the ability to use logic and reason?!

Why can't a tight player who is rich think Ak or KQ plays well vs the range of his much looser opponent?


sigh i'm just making the point that most of the people in this game haven't ground their br's from the small games up.

There are alot of idiots in the world, and sadly/luckily alot have money. If this guy is playing his cards as the reads suggest not 'poker' then it's a fold and maybe go home and open jam plo microstakes for a while to detilt. rotflmfao
I was actually trying to give toby a compliment by saying even though calling station he can make reads on his profiling of an opponenet an make a really tough fold alot of us could never do an this is a good weapon to have an maybe this is one of the reasons his game has improved so much over last few years that his bankroll has enabled him to play with better class players with obviuolsy the rich fish as well where the better players will feed on? Would this be clearer for all to understand or am i just being a donut! p.s dont forget im not really god at typing an writing so my points always seem to get misunderstood due to my lack of creativity of expressing my feelings! XXx


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Skgv on July 26, 2010, 07:23:24 PM
OK, just so I've got it straight. The reason we make it to this level is because we can make passes like this. But in the same breath we must understand that our oppo, who has also made it to this level, is the worse kind of terrible. Yep understand that.




errrrrm you make it to that level being able to play against peoples specific ranges and making the best plays you can not saying i've made an absolute hand strength im unable to fold, nothing like binking a few donkies to help you be rolled for it though. And you do realise, that there are lots of old men in London with lots of money who believe 'tight is right'? There are also tonnes of people with more money than the ability to use logic and reason?!

Why can't a tight player who is rich think Ak or KQ plays well vs the range of his much looser opponent?
nOW I RESPECT THAT POINT! sO TRUE


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Skgv on July 26, 2010, 07:24:20 PM
Sorry, I ask again, if villain only ever shows up here with 88 or KK and that's a fact from reads/history what is the purpose of the thread??
2ND TIME I HAVE AGREED BUT ITS BEEN FUN!


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: 810ofclubs on July 26, 2010, 08:45:43 PM
any1 think folding flop is nutline?


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Rupert on July 26, 2010, 08:59:06 PM
given ur read shouldnt u fold the flop? cos if hes bluff raising ever u should probs call the turn unless hes just decided to give up


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Rupert on July 26, 2010, 09:00:20 PM
of all the hands you play toby, why did u pick a really boring one to post.  i wanna see a super bluff


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: SuuPRlim on July 26, 2010, 09:02:43 PM
any1 think folding flop is nutline?

It probably is if you're planning on folding the turn, because in my experience these guys NEVER check the turn in spots like this,

however from a human perspective its too hard to fold probs, also what a fkin incred spot to hit a 3...
pretty sure you could deposit that £5k into ur account the following morning.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 26, 2010, 09:32:03 PM
Thread is clearly a level. Lolz Greekstein at insta "good fold Toby" post.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: George2Loose on July 26, 2010, 09:41:03 PM
Thread is clearly a level. Lolz Greekstein at insta "good fold Toby" post.

In all seriousness would be interesting if a random had put up this post to gauge the response. Then again I suppose they wouldn't have put the level of detail in that Toby has


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: kinboshi on July 26, 2010, 11:01:58 PM
Lads - stop the flaming, please.

(Posts deleted, again).


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: George2Loose on July 26, 2010, 11:04:13 PM
norrrrrrrrrrrr


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: kinboshi on July 26, 2010, 11:08:28 PM
norrrrrrrrrrrr

Unfortunately, yes.

Why can't people debate and argue properly?  It's not a school playground where name-calling is the best we can expect.  Criticise a person's argument, his opinion, what he says - but calling names?  Hardly constructive and relegates any useful points the person may make as invalid.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: George2Loose on July 26, 2010, 11:10:30 PM
norrrrrrrrrrrr

Unfortunately, yes.

Why can't people debate and argue properly?  It's not a school playground where name-calling is the best we can expect.  Criticise a person's argument, his opinion, what he says - but calling names?  Hardly constructive and relegates any useful points the person may make as invalid.


Fun to watch tho. I'd hate to be a mod


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: titaniumbean on July 27, 2010, 12:55:52 AM
norrrrrrrrrrrr

Unfortunately, yes.

Why can't people debate and argue properly?  It's not a school playground where name-calling is the best we can expect.  Criticise a person's argument, his opinion, what he says - but calling names?  Hardly constructive and relegates any useful points the person may make as invalid.


silly billy ......  ;marks;


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: railtard1 on July 27, 2010, 01:45:38 AM
Fml, missed all the flaming. I can probably fill in the blanks tho:

Greekstein: I hate you Mantis and you're shit at poker
Mantis: some more verbose way of saying the same thing

Right?

It's possible railtard1 weighed in on Mantis' side in some unlikely alliance, much like Stalin and Roosevelt, but that's just my pick of the outsiders.



opted out init


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: EvilPie on July 27, 2010, 10:58:54 AM
norrrrrrrrrrrr

Unfortunately, yes.

Why can't people debate and argue properly?  It's not a school playground where name-calling is the best we can expect.  Criticise a person's argument, his opinion, what he says - but calling names?  Hardly constructive and relegates any useful points the person may make as invalid.


Wow!!!!

It's finally happened!!!

Dan has posted something worth reading on PHA!!!!!


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Nico29 on July 27, 2010, 12:16:58 PM
Wow toby is a nit.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: NoflopsHomer on July 27, 2010, 03:53:21 PM
It's possible railtard1 weighed in on Mantis' side in some unlikely alliance, much like Stalin and Roosevelt, but that's just my pick of the outsiders.

:D


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Cf on July 27, 2010, 03:54:52 PM
[ x ] i have a set

[ ] i'm folding

If it's a cooler then fine, reload.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: SuuPRlim on July 27, 2010, 04:23:17 PM
[ x ] i have a set

[ ] i'm folding

If it's a cooler then fine, reload.

[  ] am crushing, beating, have good equity vs opponents value range



Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: Cf on July 27, 2010, 05:48:41 PM
[ x ] i have a set

[ ] i'm folding

If it's a cooler then fine, reload.

[  ] am crushing, beating, have good equity vs opponents value range



huh?

Reread OP's description of villian.

"History shows he is raising QQ+ without AK" - So we can discount KK here. AK is possible.

"When in a hand he bets large proportions of the pot most of the time and is quite obv to me when strong / not folding made hands. - And this adds up to what's being done here.

So what could villian have? I read he could have any of the following here: AK/KT+/K8s+/88.

We lose to 88 and beat the rest. Can't see how this is ever a fold.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: SuuPRlim on July 27, 2010, 11:26:30 PM
[ x ] i have a set

[ ] i'm folding

If it's a cooler then fine, reload.

[  ] am crushing, beating, have good equity vs opponents value range



huh?

Reread OP's description of villian.

"History shows he is raising QQ+ without AK" - So we can discount KK here. AK is possible.

"When in a hand he bets large proportions of the pot most of the time and is quite obv to me when strong / not folding made hands. - And this adds up to what's being done here.

So what could villian have? I read he could have any of the following here: AK/KT+/K8s+/88.

We lose to 88 and beat the rest. Can't see how this is ever a fold.

We are ahead of the bulk of his pre-flop limping range that connects, but what hands from that range c/raise flop and bet £900 on the turn?
Seems like 88 every day to me - and if there are never any bluffs in his range and no draws. Does he take this line with KQ? If you're right charles and he has K8/K9+ in his range then its bad to fold, but if you counter the number of times he limps K8s as opposed to folding to the amount of times he limps KK without raising, then i dont think it makes any difference to our equity that he would probably raise KK pre.

But if we take KK out of the equaiotn then his range for value here is K8/88 and when you consider how is will 100% limp 88 but sometimes fold K8 pre its a fold imo


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 28, 2010, 12:10:21 AM
[ x ] i have a set

[ ] i'm folding

If it's a cooler then fine, reload.

[  ] am crushing, beating, have good equity vs opponents value range



huh?

Reread OP's description of villian.

"History shows he is raising QQ+ without AK" - So we can discount KK here. AK is possible.

"When in a hand he bets large proportions of the pot most of the time and is quite obv to me when strong / not folding made hands. - And this adds up to what's being done here.

So what could villian have? I read he could have any of the following here: AK/KT+/K8s+/88.

We lose to 88 and beat the rest. Can't see how this is ever a fold.

We are ahead of the bulk of his pre-flop limping range that connects, but what hands from that range c/raise flop and bet £900 on the turn?
Seems like 88 every day to me - and if there are never any bluffs in his range and no draws. Does he take this line with KQ? If you're right charles and he has K8/K9+ in his range then its bad to fold, but if you counter the number of times he limps K8s as opposed to folding to the amount of times he limps KK without raising, then i dont think it makes any difference to our equity that he would probably raise KK pre.

But if we take KK out of the equaiotn then his range for value here is K8/88 and when you consider how is will 100% limp 88 but sometimes fold K8 pre its a fold imo

We heard a lot in op about how hero sees villain but pretty much nothing about how villain sees hero. You can't really make assumptions about what villain's value range is without that info. Well you can if you're saying this guy is now a rich twat businessman, who never bluffs, is never interested in his opponents, never does anything but bet the nuts regardless of who he's playing, can't play poker for shit, tassles on his slip-ons, clueless donkey type of guy. And this complete walking disaster of a player is described in op as a "small winner" in this high stakes game. Sounds like a damn tough game.


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: SuuPRlim on July 28, 2010, 12:18:43 AM
[ x ] i have a set

[ ] i'm folding

If it's a cooler then fine, reload.

[  ] am crushing, beating, have good equity vs opponents value range



huh?

Reread OP's description of villian.

"History shows he is raising QQ+ without AK" - So we can discount KK here. AK is possible.

"When in a hand he bets large proportions of the pot most of the time and is quite obv to me when strong / not folding made hands. - And this adds up to what's being done here.

So what could villian have? I read he could have any of the following here: AK/KT+/K8s+/88.

We lose to 88 and beat the rest. Can't see how this is ever a fold.

We are ahead of the bulk of his pre-flop limping range that connects, but what hands from that range c/raise flop and bet £900 on the turn?
Seems like 88 every day to me - and if there are never any bluffs in his range and no draws. Does he take this line with KQ? If you're right charles and he has K8/K9+ in his range then its bad to fold, but if you counter the number of times he limps K8s as opposed to folding to the amount of times he limps KK without raising, then i dont think it makes any difference to our equity that he would probably raise KK pre.

But if we take KK out of the equaiotn then his range for value here is K8/88 and when you consider how is will 100% limp 88 but sometimes fold K8 pre its a fold imo

We heard a lot in op about how hero sees villain but pretty much nothing about how villain sees hero. You can't really make assumptions about what villain's value range is without that info. Well you can if you're saying this guy is now a rich twat businessman, who never bluffs, is never interested in his opponents, never does anything but bet the nuts regardless of who he's playing, can't play poker for shit, tassles on his slip-ons, clueless donkey type of guy. And this complete walking disaster of a player is described in op as a "small winner" in this high stakes game. Sounds like a damn tough game.

This is kinda gd point. From what i know of toby, id assume it would make this player a lot less likely to barrel thin for value.

You;d be very suprised how these super nitty guys can win in these games, because there are enough terrible players round these guys play incredibly tight and every night they make 1/2 hands and get paaiiiiiid huge. they obv do 4/5 of it back in limp folding and paying blinds, but still manage to make a small profit,

I find they dont really affect the game at all, cept when you 4bet and they cold 5 behind. that sucks


Title: Re: Set in live cash game v "Nitty reg"
Post by: DMorgan on July 28, 2010, 12:31:14 AM
I find they dont really affect the game at all, cept when you 4bet and they cold 5 behind. that sucks

amen