blonde poker forum

After reading her article in the Guardian, is Vicky that naive?

I like her generally and was shocked that she liked a man who laughed at cancer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/25/ron-fanelli-wanphen-pienjai-poker

Are you saying this with a straight face... or the face of a baby having a smoke.

Why do you think it is OK?

I thought it was a very good article and , no, she wasn't being naive. She referred to him as her 'old poker friend'. The reality is that many of us have 'poker friends' who we know absolutely nothing about away from the poker environment.
 To me, it seemed to be more about how our perceptions of, and assumptions about people who we never really knew, change, when faced with the harsh reality of what they are really like.
 Vicky seems like a really nice person to me. Her book's a cracker too. I don't know her in real life though obv, so who knows?  :)

Exactly my point, I have not criticised the article at all.

But I am not keen on people who wish cancer on a fellow poker player.

I guess I must be a country bumpkin.

No, I believe that the consumers of images of babies smoking share some responsibility with the producers of such pictures.

Not a big deal for me, but seeing as you asked.

Got anything interesting to say on the subject, or do you just want to criticise my avatar. Do you still watch Thomas the Tank engine?

What about people who wish fellow poker players to die in a gas fire?

Is that ok? Or don't you like them either?

FYP, you fool.

really? actually that does make more sense, especially as I suspect it orginated from America; anyway - that was a minor aside - back on track now

Beat me to it  ;)

LOL'd - Please look at my avatar and imagine one of them is you..!

Me ?

You don't see the irony between your original post and that avatar?

Made me LOL even more... LOL

What a plank!

It has nothing to do with my avatar, another numb-nut itt

what does itt mean please?

I am a newbie to the internet, please help

It was a minor aside

I have no axe to grind here, nor any point of view that I particularly want to put forward, I'm just trying to work out why  you are calling Tightend names.

Is it because he thinks there is an ironic connection between someone who laughs at cancer and someone who uses a baby smoking a cigarette as an avatar?

http://www.acronymfinder.com/In-This-Thread-%28forums%29-%28ITT%29.html

thank you

It was bothering me, but until I was called numbnuts I didn't have the confidence to ask anywhere.

OP is levelling surely.

This is just because no one's interested in his Bristol City thread.

Vicky is a lot of things, but naive, she is not.

I thought the article was beautifully balanced, & superbly written. She has inherited her late father's writing skills, & some.

To Red-Dog.

I'm sorry, but it is slightly different to wish cancer upon an adult over a poker hand, than have a avatar which is just bad taste IMO. Like a joke in bad taste.

Don't worry the board police are on to it.

Vicky Coren like most good journalists is capable of dividing opinion, she isn't worried about being controversial but of all the things people might think about her not many would think her to be naive. Her words are very carefully chosen imo and it's an excellent article.

Tighty are Tank are by most reasonable measures 2 of the forum's brighter members. If you want your original post to be taken seriously it's best not to try and rubbish thier intelligence with childish name calling.

With respect, I'm not saying it's not slightly different. (Although I'm sure a lot of people can see the irony in spite of that)

I'm just curious as to why you are calling Tightend names.


EDIT: For the record, I think Fanelli's cancer remark was dreadful.

I would make sex with Vicky Coren. Something about her I like.

Tikay, I have not criticised the article, I am merely asking the question about how someone clearly educated and well liked like V Coren, would consider this man, who is all that is wrong with modern poker players "a friend".

He clearly had no respect for women and treated them like play things, before the move to Thailand. Perhaps I am too set in my ways to, believe that anyone who treats women as animals is wrong.

But I haven't been up the big smoke for a while.

Vicky Coren is the shizzle. The article is superb

I apologise for that and have removed the offending item also.

But quite why every one has their thongs in a twist, over a debate is a mystery to me.

mad yank was newteabag on 2+2

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/62/bbv4life/hey-bbv4l-imma-bout-go-bang-some-chix-253318/

TBF, Tighty did spend all of yesterday updating in Tallin all that time sitting down is enough to give anyone numb nuts!

I have read them all.

I know where you're coming from. It seems that forums are just a breeding ground for arguments these days.

She considered him  "friend" (a word whose meaning has changed considerably of late), because a few years ago, in the poker sense, she WAS a "friend" of Ron's, so was I, so were most people in the UK poker scene. We played poker with him, we interacted with him on poker forums, including blonde, we played Charity poker Tourneys with him, & most of all, because he was Ron, we argued with him. "Poker acquaintance" might be a better word than "friend" I suspect. I never liked him or disliked him, he was just another face.

At the time, despite some fairly outrageous views, he was just another member of the poker community. We try to get along with most, I think, & he was no exception. At the time. I've met worse people in poker, by far.

Now, it would seem, he's a murderer. Which changes things in the current tense, but not in the past tense. We have to adjust our thinking in the light of events.

His throwaway & juvenile "hope you die of cancer" line which she quoted is a tinsy-winsy & insignificant piece of background in the article. We all abhor such thinking, it's utterly disgraceful, but we've all seen it a thousand times in Online chat Boxes. Vicky tried, I think, to give her article "balance". Which is a very rare commodity these days, with everyone having one view, or the other, & no in-between.

Still, if you do put something up for debate, you have to be prepared to listen to the other person's point of view.

No they aren't.

No they're not

damn slow internets connection, Mantis beat me

As an aside..dunno wot it is about Vickey, but i think she is proper cheeky and as most men are sexists...i will resort to type...

so i wouldnt mind giving her one   ;D

You find men sexiest?

OK, This was my take on this Man? and Vicky's article:


Another Poker player, another murder.

What is it with some poker players nowadays? Why do some poker players feel they can carry out their heinous crimes in the far flung reaches of this world? Another ex-regular in the world poker circuit has admitted to the murder of a Thai woman in Wanphen Pienjai, Thailand.

The guilty man this time is Ron Fanelli (Mad Yank), as he was known in some circles and he was a well known face around the London poker scene. In fact, one journalist Vicky Coren, a writer for the Guardian, even described him as “a friend”, in a recent article. Fanelli an ex-US navy veteran travelled frequently and was known for his outlandish behaviour. I guess this is where his nickname Mad Yank stemmed from?! I did not ever meet this man, but he clearly had a love him or hate him personality.

The murder reported in the Phuket Gazette, took place after Fanelli met a Thai lady in the Sweetheart bar, Phuket. After talking for some in the bar, they both went back to Fanelli’s home and during a sordid exchange Fanelli flipped accusing her of being a money grabbing whore. Yeah for sure, Fanelli she may well have been, but that is the type of woman he craved. He demanded a lady who would bow down at his knees, pay homage to the mighty MadYank. After marriages, came and went like his poker fortune, his deluded ideas about women were there for all to see.

Fanelli, then proceeded to murder the defenceless women, dispose of her body in a suitcase. Seemingly unconcerned about his crime, he was finally arrested and upon answering the question. “Are you Mad Yank?” He quipped “Yeah, but that was a long time ago”. Admitting to murder Fanelli now faces jail in one of the toughest prisons in Thailand. I’m sure the hard man will receive a warm welcome.

In the article,  the Guardian have a quote from an old poker talk show in which Mad Yank appeared, answering the question “What is the worst thing you’ve done?” and this was his answer “Me? I'm an angel. I've never done anything bad. Well, I guess I've made a few people cry. I don't like getting unlucky. There was that time I told everyone at the table I hoped they'd die of cancer. Other than that, I've never done anything bad."

Says it all really, Unlucky for you this time!



 

Have you never thought of some one as a 'friend' only to be let down/disappointed at some stage?  If not, then lucky you.

You were right, the article does not seem to make sense at times. It went along the lines of 'I used to really like this guy, but now he's alleged to have killed a love-interest, omg can you ever really know someone?' Journos do that kind of hyperbole, it's how you make an article interesting. She did point out that she thought he was a womanizing failure who wished his fellow players cancer. Yeah, lovely guy. ""There is no way this man, whom I knew and liked, had actually done it.""
It's the same with the (bad) Tobin analogy. Yeah to those that knew them casually, they both seemed like lovely people. Except Tobin is, to the core, a psychopathic serial killer, and Fanelli maybe wouldn't have allegedly killed the lady had he not been in a drunk rage.

So her argument flows like:
-He seemed ok on the surface
-But underneath he was a cold-hearted killer

When in fact it is reasonable to assume from her article that
-He seemed like a bit of a dick on the surface
-He went on to commit a crime of passion (allegedly)

The first one is a 'good' newspaper article, the second isn't, so she writes the first.

It's partly redeemed by the insight at the end:

 "No amount of hookers, no manner of kinky activity, could fill the hole where Ron's self-esteem used to be. He knew, now, that the women's obliging, flattering manners were just a pretence. That's just what women do to get what they want. He despised them for it. What he didn't understand was that the more he degraded and punished the girls, the worse he felt about himself. And the further he had to go to feel masterful again. It was a dark, twisted cycle.

One day, he picked up a beautiful girl from the Sweethearts Bar, round the back of the Club Med resort in Kata on the island of Phuket. He took her home. And when she reached for him, with her obliging smile, telling him how lucky she felt to find such a handsome customer, he was revolted by the lie. He saw, suddenly, all the women in the world, every last bitch taking him for a fool. Ron would not be taken for a fool. He snapped."

Which sounds a bit like Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

".....Another Poker player, another murder...."

I've shared tables dozens of times with TWO poker players who are currently charged with Murder. A friend, well known & respected on this Forum, as well as knowing those two very well, says he knows of two other Poker players who, in the last year, have, allegedly, murdered their wives or partners, & been charged.

I only knew 2 of the 4. I was, in the poker sense, "friends" with them both. Things change though, when their crimes come to light.

Yes plenty, I am not some wet behind the ears poker hero. I am not referring to Ms Coren, more like the young ones who abuse people for fun.

Like the ones who start a thread on 2+2 forum about "News ways to abuse people".

LOLZ got a bit excited thinking of a cheeky woman who loves poker..sigh

My bad.  I assumed this thread was in reference to Ms Coren.

Why all the sarcasm? Obviously the two are linked. People who abuse other poker players.

"I told everyone at the table I hoped they'd die of cancer"

As you've suggested this is just the standard type of bad taste thing a lot of poker players do. Just like some internet forum posters like to use bad taste animated pictures as their avatar - it's not good but I don't see it as something that is necessarily all that interesting or insightful.

If you'd questioned why Vicky thought of him as a friend when he had so little respect for women then I still wouldn't think it was that interesting but at least it would be over a topic that was vaguely important

[X] You are gaining respect by standing your ground

Apologies if you feel I am being sarcastic with you.  Was not my intention.  Was merely asking a question based on the OP.  Your reply swayed from the topic of the OP, hence my confusion.  

Carry on and I'll stay out of it.

zomg, you said a bad thing, your can't be my friend anymore

don't think many of us would have many friends left

Thread went downhill since JonMW's gas fire

To Laxie

Apology accepted and I most certainly do not wish for you to stay away from topic. I don't know if you are female, but judging by your avatar you are and I'm interested in Ladies views on this.

In hindsight I'd like to blame recently reading about a gas fire for my 'oversight'

emdubya, when diagf evolved into the single word 'grease' did you not wonder why people kept writing that?

Your 'oversight' and Adam's reply had me in genuine fits of laughter earlier.   :D  Tried to stifle the laughing for fear of waking the house!  And pillows are not suitable sound barriers as it turns out.  


 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao  Just glad the kids are awake now!

Dry :-)

Wait also - the relevance of seeing the last episode of the IT Crowd is relevant, I think it subconsciously influenced me.

Therefore, in summation, I am willing to concede that I may have made a mistake - however there were extenuating circumstances

Back on track.  I suppose I just felt the term 'naive' was a bit strong...at the very least.  

The poker world is a small one in the grand scheme of things.  You run into many characters and obviously not all of them are going to be good characters.  Some of us tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.  I happen to be one of them, but I can't speak for Vicky.

You also have to keep in mind, she's a high profile poker player as well as journalist.  She has to keep her 'professional cap' on at all times.  Can't be easy.  Again, not speaking on her behalf, but I'd imagine there are plenty she'd quietly do without.  However, we're such a small community and she has no choice but to deal with the lot...as it's her job.  

Rubbish table/forum talk is one thing.  I have 'friends' who's views I disagree with.  Doesn't mean they're always bad people or I'm naive for calling them friends.  (Acquaintances is probably a better term.)  But I can assure you, if I ever found out one of them was guilty of something similar - I'd find it very difficult to write an article as well as she has with regards to that person.

And that's just my 2 cents.  From this female's point of view.

Now then.  I have a match to get to.  Happy debating Folks and come ooooooooooooon CORK!!!

Verdict: Vicky Coren is a bloody good writer

don't think many of us would have many prostitutes left either

It was in The Observer a week ago and leave Vicky alone... she's smoking hot :)

lol pls be levelling or never post in a forum again.

Have you read that 2+2 thread - it is very funny and not at all about diagf type abuse.

VCs article was published last week and has already been done to death in several forums - joining these discussions of course isn't enough for you.

Excellent post and I agree totally.

You are one who should not post in a forum, with pearls of wisdom like this. You should become a footballer, sounds right up your street.

So this is what happens if you share a table with TK for too long.

lol wp

;) 

Vicky is certainly not naive and is a really good author too.

She aint too shabby at poker either!

I think there is a more and more disturbing trend amongst some of the international poker community. Over the past few months I have heard of, and written about several poker players who have murdered people in foreign countries under the banner of poker player.

Just recently we had Fanelli, Van der Sloot, some nut-job in Vegas who's name escapes me(who killed a dealer) and countless others.


My only personal opinion is that it would be a good thing, if the poker community frowned upon these odious individuals rather just shrugged it off with a "he is OK, but he may murder someone" type of comment. The new-age poker player is rapidly becoming as dis-liked as the professional footballer, who also treat everyone with contempt.

Maybe it is because some of them have never had to work in the real world and have no social skills, other than to be obnoxious.

"Countless others"? Countless? Really? That's just hyperbole. Unless you're including those murderers who also play poker; given poker is played by some 5% of Americans and there are around 16000 murders per year, so you'd expect 800 murders by people who play poker. But I'd give you reasonably long odds that the number is actually lower than that, given a large proportion of US murders are gang related, and I can't see many gang members 20 tabling $1/$2 NL on Stars.

So yes, the odd murder has been committed by someone who also plays poker. A larger proportion of murders are committed by someone who thinks selling heroin for a living is ok. Are you saying that a poker player murdering someone should be condemned more than a drug dealer murdering someone?

I also don't see anyone coming out with "he is OK, but he may murder someone". Ever. Coren's article is written in hindsight. If she'd written it before he murdered someone she should be comatose in a big bath of water with Tom Cruise keeping an eye on her. And she's obviously not condoning it or shrugging it off. Pretty much just saying that he often pissed people off at the table, but she couldn't have imagined at the time that he would kill anybody.

Why are you getting so worked up about what she's written? She isn't saying it's ok.


I've met plenty of people who do work in the real world who have no social skills and are obnoxious.

Who are we supposed to be frowning on?

The pokey players who murder people or the poker players who may one day murder people because they're obnoxious?

If the former, pretty sure we already do. If the latter then we're frowning on 4/5 poker players and only missing the quiet ones who keep themselves to themselves, and I suppose that's ok coz they never turn out to be murderers ::)

If you didn't get that Vicky Coren frowns on the actions of a murderer there then it's a bit of reading comprehension fail on your part.

If you would have wanted her to claim that she never liked the guy really, and given reasons why, then I'm sure she could have knocked out a piece like that really easily. Only thing is that would have been aftertiming of the highest order and that's something that poker players revile.

Glad you came on here to talk bollox, made me appreciate the article more. Vicky Coren really can write. You should read all her stuff, you might learn something.

I have not said she is a bad writer anywhere and I have said I noticed this trend recently. Time will tell, whether a more unsavoury contingent are joining the community.

Don't know what heroin dealers have to do with anything, the death clearly comes with that shit profession.

Tank if you can not see that unreasonable behaviour is sometimes attached to lunatic's, then perhaps you will be the next one righting about a "good friend".

If that's the price of having friends then it's a risk I'll run.

fwiw, I don't think much of your 'time will tell whether a more unsavoury contingent are joing the community' observation.

I think time has already told that unsavoury types are drawn to gambling with cards. I think that's been the case since the days of of the Wild West, since the days of Doestoesky (sp?) and if you replace cards with other gambling objects then I wouldn't doubt that Roman citizens who liked a punt were statistically more likely to chop up prostitutes than Roman citizens who didn't like a punt.

Murderers are bad. Sometimes you know someone and they seem ok but then they murder someone so you know you were wrong and actually they are bad. Sometimes these people are poker players, but they are bad people, we should distance ourselves from them otherwise people will think we are all bad. Also, I will wear protective clothing at all tournaments from now on, especially when playing opponents whose eyes are too close together.

This http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joran_van_der_Sloot is absolutely crazy. He grimmed the Feds lol.