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Title: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 29, 2005, 09:42:37 AM Here is a hand from a HU NL cash game.
Villain is a good aggressive player, 50 hands ago Villain got lucky and busted the Hero's Ac Aspades with Kd Kc . Villain keeps on consistently raising OOP with a various range of hands. Blinds £10/£20 Hero OTB has £3264 Villain has £4233 Hero is dealt 6c 7c Villain raises to £60 Hero raises to £180 Villain calls Flop: 2d 6d 9c Villain checks What now...? Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: 12barblues on December 29, 2005, 10:41:09 AM No idea where I stand, so bet £240 (two thirds of pot) and see what happens.
I don't care much for the pre-flop re-raise. I would be a lot happier betting £80 into a £120 pot. That said, £10/£20 HU cash is so far above my lowly level that I get a nose bleed even thinking about it. Scary stuff. I am very interested to see what some of the site's big guns suggest here. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Newmanseye on December 29, 2005, 10:50:24 AM I aggree with 12barblues a strong bet with two thieds of the pot, he will probably come over the top if he's bluffing particularly if he's a loosey goosey, However if he flat calls you might be in schtook, so if the flat call comes take the free card.
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: thetank on December 29, 2005, 02:26:36 PM I'm not even going to touch it, NL cash not my game at all.
I'd check, fold, cash out and play a tournament. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: NoflopsHomer on December 29, 2005, 02:42:10 PM I'm not even going to touch it, NL cash not my game at all. I'd check, fold, cash out and play a tournament. :D Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: snoopy1239 on December 29, 2005, 02:50:55 PM His check is a sign of weakness.
Bet. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: ifm on December 29, 2005, 03:36:47 PM His check is a sign of weakness. Bet. Or strength :) Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: thetank on December 29, 2005, 03:39:55 PM His check is a sign of weakness. Bet. Or strength :) Worry about that when you're raised. Free cards are not to be bought out of position with a check. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: ifm on December 29, 2005, 03:41:40 PM I realise that, i was implying you have no idea at all what he has (monster or nothing), the only thing to do is to bet to gain info.
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 30, 2005, 09:56:51 AM Here is a hand from a HU NL cash game.
Villain is a good aggressive player, 50 hands ago Villain got lucky and busted the Hero's with . Villain keeps on consistently raising OOP with a various range of hands. Blinds £10/£20 Hero OTB has £3264 Villain has £4233 Hero is dealt Villain raises to £60 Hero raises to £180 Villain calls Flop: 2d 6d 9c Villain checks What now...? OK, on to the turn... Hero bets £300 Villain calls £300 There is £960 in the pot The turn card is the 8c So the flop is: 2d 6d 9c 8c The Villain checks What now...? Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: 12barblues on December 30, 2005, 10:25:40 AM OMG! 20 outs but only 1 is definitely clean......what a 'mare.........
A 'normal' size bet runs the risk of being check-raised all in and being blasted out of the pot as I don't see how we can call? If we check and miss completely or, worse, hit a 'tainted' out we still don't know where we stand. So, all in.....and then reload when it goes horribly wrong. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: elblondie on December 30, 2005, 12:30:22 PM I can only agree. I know it's a huge overbet but I still think I move all-in for several reasons
1. I'm quite happy for him to pass and just collect the pot if he passes, which is quite sizeable. I certainly dont want to lose this pot to a A5 offsuit type hand where I give him a free card to hit an ace 2. if you check you wont really know where you are on the river, and he may well give you a very difficult decision. You may end up folding when you should call or calling when you should fold 3. At this point with a card to come he may make a dreadful call with 10J off suit or similar...and he should miss most of the time Stick it in and win 8) Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Royal Flush on December 30, 2005, 05:28:08 PM I woul check, flat calling out of position scares the hell out of me. He may well have a set. If we are going to bet on the turn then it has to be all in, but i think that is a bit silly (ducking) as we open up to a set.
Check and take the card, if you hit the river but not hard enough then u can flat call and limit your loss, if you smack the river and it turns out he has nothing he is likely to bluff putting you on a missed ace. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: 12barblues on December 30, 2005, 05:53:17 PM I understand what you are saying but, apart from 5c for the absolute nuts (and Tc for the non-nut straight flush), what card(s) would you like to see on the river? And how much would you be prepared to call? The uncertainty would be too much for me, which is why I want to give him the headache.
I'm perfectly happy to concede that my all in may be a response to being outplayed. At least he can't outplay me on the river. And I do have a lot of outs, even if I don't know what they are. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: The Baron on December 30, 2005, 06:12:22 PM As awful a decision as it is, the turn is much more likely to be a horror card for him than it is for you.
I would take the play out of this hand and just go all in. He'll most likely get timed out wondering what the hell you've got. By the way I think when you are worried about being outplayed in a hand like this, there is nothing at all wrong with taking the skill out of it. :) Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: thetank on December 30, 2005, 06:42:20 PM 12barblues, thebaron and DC all advocating an all-in here is enough to convince me.
Their arguments make sense, any bet will commit you to calling a raise, might aswell make him do the sweating. There's certainly enough in the pot to make it worth winning then and there. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Royal Flush on December 30, 2005, 06:54:46 PM I am a cash game fish, thought i should thorw that in.
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: 12barblues on December 31, 2005, 12:54:45 AM And I am just a fish. Full stop.
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: thetank on December 31, 2005, 02:10:02 AM newmanseye says DC is a ;fish; too.
I hear the Baron can play though, and he agrees with you 12barblues. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 31, 2005, 09:40:14 AM Here is a hand from a HU NL cash game.
Villain is a good aggressive player, 50 hands ago Villain got lucky and busted the Hero's with . Villain keeps on consistently raising OOP with a various range of hands. Blinds £10/£20 Hero OTB has £3264 Villain has £4233 Hero is dealt 6c 7c Villain raises to £60 Hero raises to £180 Villain calls Flop: 2d 6d 9c Villain checks What now...? OK, on to the turn... Hero bets £300 Villain calls £300 There is £960 in the pot The turn card is the 8c So the flop is: 2d 6d 9c 8c The Villain checks ... Hero bets £850 making the pot £1810 and leaving himself £1934 Villain raises all in for £3753 Do you Call or Fold? Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 31, 2005, 03:29:58 PM Edited
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: 12barblues on December 31, 2005, 03:31:29 PM This is precisely the situation I feared. I fold and cash out because I've been totally outplayed. I still don't know whether he has a monster or sweet FA.
And I still hate the pre-flop re-raise that trebled the size of this pot. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Harry Demetriou on December 31, 2005, 04:28:41 PM Sorry to join this thread so late but as they say better l;ate than never.
Here is a hand from a HU NL cash game. Villain is a good aggressive player, 50 hands ago Villain got lucky and busted the Hero's with . Villain keeps on consistently raising OOP with a various range of hands. Blinds £10/£20 Hero OTB has £3264 Villain has £4233 Hero is dealt 6c 7c Villain raises to £60 Hero raises to £180 Villain calls Flop: 2d 6d 9c Villain checks What now...? Pretty starightforward so fa...Villain raised and as a perceived aggressive player you reraised him to make him fold pre flop and he does not oblige by folding and calls your reraise instead. I am inclined to think that Villain has at least a playable hand at this point as he has called your reraise but he is still getting decent enough implied odds of around 17/1 if he flops great anyway. On the flop however he has checked to you and you have hit middle pair and a back door flush draw so I feel it is important to bet here. SOmewhere in the region of half the pot to 3/4 of the pot seems reasonable as you have a good chance of being in front and there has to be a good chance that Villain will fold as he will feel you have at least a pair or two big overcards as at face value neither of you really should have been helped byt he flop considering the pre flop action. (BTW One thing you haven't mentioned is how Villain perceives you but as you mentioned that he cracked your AA with a KK earlier I assume he thinks you are a tight player or one that only plays premium hands. As such it would put greater emphasis on him having a playable hand pre flop after your reraise). Villains check call on the flop doesn't tell you a great deal, however, as he could be on a draw such as holding two overcards in diamonds but surely with this type of hand he may have preferred to lead into you or check raise you on the flop. After all he is described as aggressive and with two overs he may even figure he is a fasvourite over you and want to commit chips at this point. Then again he may have a set of 2's or 9's and may have decided that he wants to see no diamond come off before getting chips comitted. Having said that when in a heads up type situation it's less likely that you are afraid of a flush type draw in the same way you would if it was a multi contested flop. Whatever the case you cannot really be that happy about his call but on to the turn you go and you still may have the best hand although I don't feel at this point he has two overcards unless it is a big overpair. OK, on to the turn... Hero bets £300 Villain calls £300 There is £960 in the pot The turn card is the 8c So the flop is: 2d 6d 9c 8c The Villain checks ... Hero bets £850 making the pot £1810 and leaving himself £1934 Villain checks again and this is like a godsend imo as he has now shown definite weakness (two consecutive checks) and the turn card has given you lots of additional outs if you are checkraised and you could still easily be in front. Making your pot sized bet makes sure that Villain cannot call you with a draw but he throws a major spanner in the works by check raising you all in so now you have to make some decisions. Villain raises all in for £3753 Do you Call or Fold? The pot is now 3734 and it will cost you your remaining 1934 to call which is roughly 2/1. Firstly this is a cash NL game and I cannot believe for the life of me you can fold here and believe you must make a mandatory call. To fold you have to be confident that you are going to lose 67% of the time from this position and even though you may have tainted outs some of them surely are clean ones. Currently you figure you have 9 clubs plus 3 x Fives and 3 x Tens and possibly 2 x sixes and 2 x sevens but even if you discount on average 4 of them (which I believe is fair) you are going to expect to have 15 outs that win for you assuming that you are behind at this point and need to catch up which is roughly 33% chance of winning. You have to also calculate whether your opponent (who is very aggressive) is the type of player who likes to commit chips with a draw on the turn or capable of making a complete bluff at this pot in this spot not to mention allow for your already being in front with the pair of 6's. Well thats my perspective on this hand anyway but for me I am committing to this pot with my bet on the turn and him check raising whilst not welcomed is not going to stop me from calling. Whilst I prefer to do the original pushing of chips into the pot I figure that nearly all of my perceived outs are good as Villain most likely has an overpair and the only real hand I don't want him to have is a set of 2's or 9's or even 8's on the turn but if he has so be it. I can't go running scared just because there's a lot of money in the pot. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Harry Demetriou on December 31, 2005, 04:34:03 PM Idiotic me:-(
Somehow I managed to put most of my answer to this thread inside the quote box......never mind...I will eductae myself in replying correctly one day. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 31, 2005, 04:39:55 PM use [ quote] and [ /quote]
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: thetank on December 31, 2005, 05:00:58 PM Aww bless, did tightend show you how to add polls?
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: TightEnd on December 31, 2005, 05:28:29 PM He will never be told the true depth of the poll function on here
I move all in on the turn to avoid this situation I call here for EV purposes. and, the result? Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 31, 2005, 05:34:50 PM and, the result? Tomorrow, my old apprentice ;) Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 31, 2005, 05:35:29 PM I would like some more views.
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Royal Flush on December 31, 2005, 05:39:47 PM This is why we check the turn....
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: TightEnd on December 31, 2005, 05:42:39 PM and, the result? Tomorrow, my old apprentice ;) less of the old. thats two threads now. I'm the same imaginary age as Tikay Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Heid on December 31, 2005, 05:44:34 PM The wholeplace is filling up with obscure SW references....
Spectacular! Now if someone can just get this walking carpet out of my way.... Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: The Baron on December 31, 2005, 05:56:26 PM Am I in your way?
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: thetank on December 31, 2005, 05:58:13 PM But sir, the odds of succsefully being dealt JJ or better 2 hands in a row are approximately 3,720 to 1.
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Heid on December 31, 2005, 05:59:05 PM That's no minor hand, that's 7,4 off suit!
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: The Baron on December 31, 2005, 06:01:06 PM You've gotta be able to get some kind of read on that player, fish or shark!
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 31, 2005, 06:02:07 PM Played well, you have
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Heid on December 31, 2005, 06:02:49 PM There aren't the blinds you're looking for...
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: thetank on December 31, 2005, 06:03:51 PM Never tell me the pot odds
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 31, 2005, 06:04:06 PM have you seen Return of the Sith yet Heid?
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: TightEnd on December 31, 2005, 06:04:52 PM ENOUGH WITH THE STARS WARS JUNKIES... Please. He'll put another poll up next, like which is his favourite extra in "The Empire Strikes Back" or "favourite location in a stars movie" STOP Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Heid on December 31, 2005, 06:07:02 PM RedDog, standing by..
And yes Mr Esis, if i could cream my pants, I would have whilst watching that ...suprememly fantastic, very sad, almost as good as Empire... Tunisia Mr End, and of course... the Ugnaughts!!!! Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: The Baron on December 31, 2005, 06:07:49 PM I'll raise you two thousand now and another fifteen when we get to the turn.
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 31, 2005, 06:07:57 PM LOL @ ALL OF YOU
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Heid on December 31, 2005, 06:15:06 PM You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than party poker....
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 31, 2005, 06:16:31 PM You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than party poker.... Yeah, the customer support and its owners. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: TightEnd on December 31, 2005, 06:17:52 PM Talking complete DikShit as usual Nemesis
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: The Baron on December 31, 2005, 06:20:03 PM Heid, you must go to the Waterstones System. There you will learn from Harrington, the poker master that instructed me.
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 31, 2005, 06:22:47 PM Talking complete DikShit as usual Nemesis You would think that after making $1Billion from the PP share launch he would be able to afford to change his name via Deed Poll. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Heid on December 31, 2005, 06:24:27 PM Harrington, ahh great player was he, powerful, strong!
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Scottish Dave on December 31, 2005, 06:31:50 PM But sir, the odds of succsefully being dealt JJ or better 2 hands in a row are approximately 3,720 to 1. just when you mention that, i was dealt JJ then JJ then QQ in three hands on thursday night! Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on December 31, 2005, 07:45:24 PM Here is a hand from a HU NL cash game.
Villain is a good aggressive player, 50 hands ago Villain got lucky and busted the Hero's with . Villain keeps on consistently raising OOP with a various range of hands. Blinds £10/£20 Hero OTB has £3264 Villain has £4233 Hero is dealt 6c 7c Villain raises to £60 Hero raises to £180 Villain calls Flop: 2d 6d 9c Villain checks What now...? OK, on to the turn... Hero bets £300 Villain calls £300 There is £960 in the pot The turn card is the 8c So the flop is: 2d 6d 9c 8c The Villain checks ... Hero bets £850 making the pot £1810 and leaving himself £1934 Villain raises all in for £3753 Do you Call or Fold? The Hero decided to call the reraise all in. the correct play IMO. The Villain turned over Ac 9s !!! The river was... 3h What do you think of the Villains play? Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: The Baron on December 31, 2005, 07:47:04 PM Oh my life.
Where did you say this took place? ;) Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: ifm on January 01, 2006, 01:22:38 PM I actually don't think it's that bad, flat call the flop and reraise the turn.
He probably puts you on a draw (flushing) and reraises the harmless looking club. He can't really thing you're drawing to the straight because of the preflop action and lets face it he is ahead. Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: The Baron on January 02, 2006, 12:24:58 AM Who won?
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: Nem on January 02, 2006, 12:30:13 AM The river was a blank 3h so the Villain won a big pot.
Title: Re: NL Cash Game Post by: The Baron on January 02, 2006, 12:34:25 AM I know it worked out in the end but I just HATE that flat call by the Villain on the flop. It's really asking for trouble.
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