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Poll
Question: Do you Call or Fold the Villains reraise?
Call
Fold

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: NL Cash Game  (Read 9781 times)
thetank
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« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2005, 06:42:20 PM »

12barblues, thebaron and DC all advocating an all-in here is enough to convince me.

Their arguments make sense, any bet will commit you to calling a raise, might aswell make him do the sweating.

There's certainly enough in the pot to make it worth winning then and there.
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Royal Flush
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« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2005, 06:54:46 PM »

I am a cash game fish, thought i should thorw that in.
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12barblues
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2005, 12:54:45 AM »

And I am just a fish. Full stop.
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thetank
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2005, 02:10:02 AM »

newmanseye says DC is a  fish too.
I hear the Baron can play though, and he agrees with you 12barblues.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2005, 02:20:46 AM by thetank » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2005, 09:40:14 AM »

Here is a hand from a HU NL cash game.


Villain is a good aggressive player, 50 hands ago Villain got lucky and busted the Hero's  with . Villain keeps on consistently raising OOP with a various range of hands.

Blinds £10/£20

Hero OTB has £3264

Villain has £4233

Hero is dealt   

Villain raises to £60

Hero raises to £180

Villain calls

Flop:   Two Diamonds

Villain checks

What now...?


OK, on to the turn...


Hero bets £300

Villain calls £300

There is £960 in the pot



The turn card is the   


So the flop is:  Two Diamonds


The Villain checks


...

Hero bets £850 making the pot £1810 and leaving himself £1934

Villain raises all in for £3753


Do you Call or Fold?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2005, 03:28:15 PM by Nemesis » Logged
Nem
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« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2005, 03:29:58 PM »

Edited
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12barblues
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« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2005, 03:31:29 PM »

This is precisely the situation I feared. I fold and cash out because I've been totally outplayed. I still don't know whether he has a monster or sweet FA.

And I still hate the pre-flop re-raise that trebled the size of this pot.
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Harry Demetriou
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« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2005, 04:28:41 PM »

Sorry to join this thread so late but as they say better l;ate than never.

Here is a hand from a HU NL cash game.


Villain is a good aggressive player, 50 hands ago Villain got lucky and busted the Hero's  with . Villain keeps on consistently raising OOP with a various range of hands.

Blinds £10/£20

Hero OTB has £3264

Villain has £4233

Hero is dealt   

Villain raises to £60

Hero raises to £180

Villain calls

Flop:   Two Diamonds

Villain checks

What now...?


Pretty starightforward so fa...Villain raised and as a perceived aggressive player you reraised him to make him fold pre flop and he does not oblige by folding and calls your reraise instead.

I am inclined to think that Villain has at least a playable hand at this point as he has called your reraise but he is still getting decent enough implied odds of around 17/1 if he flops great anyway.

On the flop however he has checked to you and you have hit middle pair and a back door flush draw so I feel it is important to bet here. SOmewhere in the region of half the pot to 3/4 of the pot seems reasonable as you have a good chance of being in front and there has to be a good chance that Villain will fold as he will feel you have at least a pair or two big overcards as at face value neither of you really should have been helped byt he flop considering the pre flop action.

(BTW One thing you haven't mentioned is how Villain perceives you but as you mentioned that he cracked your AA with a KK earlier I assume he thinks you are a tight player or one that only plays premium hands. As such it would put greater emphasis on him having a playable hand pre flop after your reraise).


Villains check call on the flop doesn't tell you a great deal, however, as he could be on a draw such as holding two overcards in diamonds but surely with this type of hand he may have preferred to lead into you or check raise you on the flop. After all he is described as aggressive and with two overs he may even figure he is a fasvourite over you and want to commit chips at this point. Then again he may have a set of 2's  or 9's and may have decided that he wants to see no diamond come off before getting chips comitted. Having said that when in a heads up type situation it's less likely that you are afraid of a flush type draw in the same way you would if it was a multi contested flop. Whatever the case you cannot really be that happy about his call but on to the turn you go and you still may have the best hand although I don't feel at this point he has two overcards unless it is a big overpair.



OK, on to the turn...


Hero bets £300

Villain calls £300

There is £960 in the pot



The turn card is the   


So the flop is:  Two Diamonds


The Villain checks


...

Hero bets £850 making the pot £1810 and leaving himself £1934


Villain checks again and this is like a godsend imo as he has now shown definite weakness (two consecutive checks) and the turn card has given you lots of additional outs if you are checkraised and you could still easily be in front.

Making your pot sized bet makes sure that Villain cannot call you with a draw but he throws a major spanner in the works by check raising you all in so now you have to make some decisions.


Villain raises all in for £3753


Do you Call or Fold?


The pot is now 3734 and it will cost you your remaining 1934 to call which is roughly 2/1.

Firstly this is a cash NL game and I cannot believe for the life of me you can fold here and believe you must make a mandatory call.

To fold you have to be confident that you are going to lose 67% of the time from this position and even though you may have tainted outs some of them surely are clean ones.

Currently you figure you have 9 clubs plus 3 x Fives and 3 x Tens  and possibly 2 x sixes and 2 x sevens but even if you discount on average 4 of them (which I believe is fair) you are going to expect to have 15 outs that win for you assuming that you are behind at this point and need to catch up which is roughly 33% chance of winning. You have to also calculate whether your opponent (who is very aggressive) is the type of player who likes to commit chips with a draw on the turn or capable of making a complete bluff at this pot in this spot not to mention allow for your already being in front with the pair of 6's.

Well thats my perspective on this hand anyway but for me I am committing to this pot with my bet on the turn and him check raising whilst not welcomed is not going to stop me from calling. Whilst I prefer to do the original pushing of chips into the pot I figure that nearly all of my perceived outs are good as Villain most likely has an overpair and the only real hand I don't want him to have is a set of 2's or 9's or even 8's on the turn but if he has so be it. I can't go running scared just because there's a lot of money in the pot.

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Harry Demetriou
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« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2005, 04:34:03 PM »

Idiotic me:-(

Somehow I managed to put most of my answer to this thread inside the quote box......never mind...I will eductae myself in replying correctly one day.
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Nem
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« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2005, 04:39:55 PM »

use [ quote] and [ /quote]
« Last Edit: December 31, 2005, 04:42:26 PM by Nemesis » Logged
thetank
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« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2005, 05:00:58 PM »

Aww bless, did tightend show you how to add polls?
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TightEnd
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« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2005, 05:28:29 PM »

He will never be told the true depth of the poll function on here

I move all in on the turn to avoid this situation

I call here for EV purposes.


and, the result?
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Nem
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« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2005, 05:34:50 PM »

and, the result?

Tomorrow, my old apprentice Wink
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Nem
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« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2005, 05:35:29 PM »

I would like some more views.
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Royal Flush
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« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2005, 05:39:47 PM »

This is why we check the turn....
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