blonde poker forum

Pretty surprising imo.

I guess the WSOP champions contracts are alot bigger than regular Team Proi's and they asked Raymer to take a pay cut (based on Kathy Lieberts Twitter musings) and Greg said no.

Thoughts?

Waste of money. Well rid of him.

Can't see how he pulled anybody in at all.

Never see him on TV and when you do he's a bit boring.

i dont disagree he is boring but he is a great ambassador for the game - poker stars should have taken him in and upstairs IMO  - not let him go

he also does good work with the PPA

nice guy but kinda agree with Matt. Cant see value in keeping him

Sign me instead

I would say the same for most sponsored players tbh. Apart from Thewy on will hills in the early days no player has ever influenced where I take my business (actually that a lie, i sometimes play the promo games on here, sky etc). That said moneymaker was a great figurehead at that specific moment in time, the effect he had on the game and stars will never be repeated......

I am surprised personally as I think Raymer and Stars are a really good fit. Stars has a pretty good rep as probably the classiest site out there and Raymer comes across as one of the good guys.

He is pokerstars ain't he?! This is a shame. I hope now he doesn't sign up for any other site, but a transfer to full tilt would be very amusing.

+1, I like Raymer

Apart from negreanu, who have stars got that's interesting? I like barry g but not exactly interesting.

I think raymer is an excellent ambassador and good for the game. When I first got into poker was just after he won the wsop and I always used to like watching him, if only for his glasses. Maybe he's not as interesting for us guys who are pokering day in day out like isildur and jason mercier are but I think he was a good fit at stars.

Stars have also made a big deal about having the most wsop champions. This jus gonna be forgotten about soon?

+1

Maybe they've decided that he just doesn't pull in the new punters?  Those who know him well have been playing for longer and he's already outlived his effectiveness (in marketing terms).  It's probably more cost-effective to have celebrities than fossil-men who mean far less to the newest generation of poker players?

Obviously, this isn't the case at Sky - where tikay is the exception to every rule.

There is no doubt Raymer pulled in the punters for his first year or two, as most world champs will, but I cant see him ever getting another big endorsement unless he binks big again. It is a shame because I think him and MoneyMaker have been perhaps two of the best ambassadors for the game around - no pulling power I might add, but very good role models for how a sponsored player should conduct themselves.

ESPN are apparently lining up an interview with him, I've heard there is a bit more to it than people think (No idea what that means btw, just heard someone say the same thing).

Absolute madness by pokerstars in my view fat bald guys are the future of this game and the sooner they wake up and realise it the better.

A bit harsh to judge him like that ! Have you met the guy ? He s an amazingly humble an warm guy who has time for everyone an has great aura on an off the table wheres you have Joe hachem the complete opposite of the big man.

Bit shocked at this news, would have defo thought it might be time to start pulling some of the women down from there site, fair enough it's about marketing, but I allways assumed you had to be a winnig online player aswell as binking a big live comp, to be sponsered, A few women to mention, have only won 1 comp on there, and been sponsered for like 2-3 yrs, pretty fickle imo.

The should look to the more younger generation, a female eqivilant to Islidur1 (without the bankroll) lol, Dreeniee82 would be a great ambassador to the company that is Pokerstars - wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii  ;)

I agree Mike gg

Not surprised really but it is a shame.  Raymer has always spoken very well and is great as a bridge between site and the media.  I remember him putting the hours in on freeplay Badugi while it was in Beta at PS and fielding tons of questions about the game.  However Stars is moving on and he isn't a pull at all for the new generation.

I can see him being signed by WSOP.Com though.  If the rumours of them getting a stable together are true (with Hellmuth as the banner name) he would be a perfect fit, especially if used as the media face at the actual series.  Nothing says traditional (or old) and live poker like the name WSOP.

I just cant see WSOP.com getting a big stable of players unless they make a big change soon, because at the moment all they are is a ring-fenced skin on the 888 network, open only to UK players (I have no idea why).

DO you not see why this is exactly the problem?

Of course I don't know him personally but I am keen on poker and know nothing about him at all.

Hachem on the other hand I know a lot about. Yes part of what I know is that he's a tit but at least I'd recognise him in the street.

Humble and warm doesn't drag new punters to the tables and that's what he's paid a large sum of money for.

Completely agree about him not being a selling point, however he does have value as ambassador imo. Poker is a fragile game from a legislative point of view, in danger of getting banned or heavily taxed in most countries, Raymer has worked his arse off trying to legitimise the game. He might not entice new players any more, but he might prove an important player in helping get the game legalised in the States.

That said, if I had my own poker room I'd pick Isildur1 or a bird with huge jugs over him in a heart beat to represent my room

Sad to see him go from stars!

Obv they dont think someone that is old ugly and fat has any pulling power

Guess when i win a couple of bracelets this year Stars wont be looking to add me to their stable :)

Sort of contridict yourself there as how can playing with an arrogant bad loser be good for the game or even want you to sit an play with him but with raymer playing on the same table is educational enjoyable expierence?

Please explain further ! ;dingdell; ;dingdell;

Quite like Greg, seems a nice chap.   Isn't he (or wasn't he at least) a big poster on 2+2?

To be fair, he'd be a big poster on any forum.

He used to be back in the day but doesn't post anymore I don't think.

I think some of his wsop main win was sold as shares to some 2+2ers.

if you read the 2+2 blog you can see he has given a reply. i dont know the guy anymore than the rest of you. he seemed genuine and has won the main and plays all forms of the game not just nlhe and plo (were some people would do well to learn that 2 ok he hands does not make an omaha hand). he is a poker player who does a lot of good for poker imo. weight looks and personality are not good reasons to shoot some one down.

FYP ;)

I think it's a big shame and a big oversight. What is the new image they are hoping for, when they're leaving behind someone who brings a warmth to each table, has great class and integrity, and knows and love each poker discipline?

Hachem is the complete opposite. I sat with him during a razz tournament, and he bickered at the dealer literally every time a card didn't go his way, no class at all.

Read an article somewhere today which simply says that Pokerstars are turning focus away from the US, and that's where Raymer has value.

I just don't get this tbh.  He won the WSOP ME and is a global figure and represents their brand better than almost anyone else that i can think of.  It is like saying they signed Isildur because they want to increase their market share in Sweden.

So by the same token is it the end for BarryG,Chad Brown,D Williams and T Mcevoy etc.. ?

wow u copied my post!¬ Knew there was a connection with us !

I think it's simply a case of them rethinking what 'Team Pokerstars' is for them, in terms of a marketing entity. 

Surely everyone who knows who Greg Raymer is and what he won is already quite aware of Pokerstars and he's not really going to bring in much new business - in the US or elsewhere?

tez player, but does alot for poker. Hopefully he keeps up the PPA work.

I wouldn't say he's tez

does tez mean terrible? how can you say that when he plays all forms of the game and has excellent results. just hendonmobbed him just to make sure he had not just binked the wsop but unfoutunatly the laptop crashed with all the hard work it was required to do. i am the defender of the old and a nit myself

For sure I've never understood the strategy of signing up all these pro players, it just not seem to make business sense for the reason you mention, some are fine but there seem to be tons of them. I think They would be better off signing up a few more celebs to try and reach out to potential customers that are not already within poker circles and trying to broaden the player market as a whole that way.

Seems to be pretty well respected on 2+2 on whole which is a pretty tough feat to achieve.

Raymer was a very good poster on 2p2 pre his wsop bink. Calling him tez is way off the mark imo.

And a very good poster on RGP before 2p2 started. Tez is laughable.

He didnt play for Newcastle so must be tez

This, still understand why he's been dropped.

Absurd comment. 

http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/pokerstars-drops-julian-thew-darus-suharto-18091/

Quite shocked to see Thewy has been dropped, I certainly hope we wasnt caught out asking John Duthie if he had 'smashed it' or something similar.

Seriously though, Thewy is probably one the best ambassadors for the game in the UK, I guess he probably doesn't have the pulling power of Coren or Boeree, hence being in a similar 'great ambassador, but who is he bringing to the tables' issue that Raymer has.   

Without knowing the facts, this is a shocking decision by Stars.

Julian is about the only poker player I know who I haven't heard a single bad word about.

Universally liked and a great player, surely the perfect ambasador for Stars.

Compared to the unknown Ainsworth or the whiny Boeree, I know who I'd have on my team if I was Pokerstars!

Are you really shocked?

Yes.

Why?

It was this time last year he signed for them, so I guess it was a case of them not renewing a 'trial' year, perhaps Boeree coming in tightened the UK pro budget or someink.

If I am brutally honest, I would much have Coren or Boeree for my own fictional online poker room because they bring with them more new players interested in the game, but I still think Thewy added value.

In terms of getting mainstream media exposure, the UK poker players rank like this.

Liv Boeree >>>>>>>> Vicky Coren >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Others

As nice a guy as he is, I doubt Julian is going to get a single extra signup for Pokerstars - if you know who he is, you already have an account with them.

Pretty much this and the fact that i have only seen Julian at the WSOP and DTD in the last year, i could be wrong but i guess they have decided to go with someone with more exposure?

I guess people have to put personal feelings aside on this one, because julian is a complete and utter boss, just a sheer quality guy who a lot of us on blonde like a lot.

However, he's had a very quiet first year as a stars pro (I know julian is a classy giq kind of guy anyway) and other uk players have had a huge amount of success and exposure this year.

Look at the likes of cody, toby, eames. Keys and trickett (is the latter a real person or just a poker level?) who are having big years and are either unsponsored or have just gained deals.

Have stars signed anyone as a replacement?

I see what peeps are saying. Also agree with AndrewT but do any of the other pros like JP or Jude get signups?

Jude defo runs good to have a deal imo, jp has gained them significant media exposure and been successful.

Surprised YoYo played any live poker this year with his 6 young kids he has to look after

This is true of virtually every Pokerstars Pro.

I think you massively over estimate Liv Boeree in this respect.

Only poker players have heard of her.

I think most of the pros are a waste of time. Better having famous people, that's the only way they will expand their market outside of current poker circles...........

That's very wrong keith.

I've spoken to about 3/4 non poker players who have mentioned her. Infact my gym trainer knows of her and the only other poker player he's ever heard of is ivey.

I agree with this actually.

But if you are going to have pros (and stars has shedloads), Julian is the best one to have in the uk imo.

Have to disagree...... my old mum mentioned LB to me a few months ago to me and she thinks poker is the thing that you prod the fire with.

Ok, I stand corrected.

It just goes to show how latent sexism is alive and well in the UK.

For what reason?

I love Julian but 100% can see why stars made the decision they did.

someone like Liv is perfect for getting new blood into the game.  she's a model as well as a poker player, done a few lads mags, the readership of which will be a prime target audience for poker sites I would have thought.

For the reasons I stated above.

He is the perfect ambassador, friendly, good natured, a fine player and a good sport.

Tell me why he is dumped and they keep (for example): Anh Van Nguyen, Lee Nelson or Marcin Horecki?

Keith, I'm not denying Pokerstars have a lot of deadwood on their books, but nearly any super hotshot young pro is not going to get stories in newspapers or appear on mainstream television. My mum has only heard of 3 poker players, and they are Liv, Devilfish and TV's Tony Kendall.

Also, bear in mind Stars will have a heavy degree of regionalism in their pros - plenty of foreign randoms may be pretty big deals in their own backyard.

snap, if st ars wanted to sign a bunch of old biddies, Liv Boeree is obviously the way to go.

Out of interest and not taking the piss, do you ever find yourself having to justify your own sponsorship deal in the terms we are talking about Flushy? ie, do people question how much new blood you bring to the tables and do you have an answer for it? I know FTP tend to reward heavily the players who bring more exposure to the brand, paying bonuses etc when they make TV tables/front covers etc

and to mirror Greeky and a few others, I know a ton of non poker players who have mentioned to me Boeree & Coren, most of them women. Boeree also has a reasonable following in the heavy metal circles I believe, its all noise to me though, play a bit of Chaz & Dave FFS etc

That's all great but i never saw him playing anywhere, ambassadors surely have to play?


Would rather not discuss the ins and outs of my deal in public but it's no secret you dont get much out of a tilt deal unless you are willing to put in the hours.

Ok, so I'm biased.

I like Julian alot, and I don't care for Liv much.

She's from the Joe Hachem school of sponsored player.

Wow - that bad???

lol.

Noone is as bad as Joe (except maybe his brother)

Explain please ?

I have just read all 150+ pages of Mer Brit "In the Well" on 2+2.

If Stars are happy to have "her" representing them, then none of their decisions in regard to who they sponsor and who they don't sponsor is likely to make any sense to me.

So I give up arguing and debating about it.

GL in the future Mr Thew.

seems simple, nice tits are comercially viable in poker

there s no doubt that Joe Hachem is the biggest tit under Stars banner  ( dont know his brother though)

My tits are quite nice, and I have a woodpecker.

Saw my first ever Long Tailed Tit the other day, absolutely beautiful.

Unusual to see just the one Mr H, they usually go around in little squadrons, like spitfires on a sortie. 

There were Blue Tits and Great Tits on the feeding box, and then the Long Tailed Tot joined in the feast.

Only time it's been seen there.

U think I shouldstart a thread about tits, Ihave loads in the garden.

Ugh I hate you right now, just started to reading it and know I am going to have to read the whole thread to satisfy my curosity and then realise I have wasted another 3 hours of my life.

bax and sheets itt so how can that ever be a waste of time?

I lied when I said I had read all the pages.

But around page 60 it gets incred.

WTF are stars doing sponsoring PeachyMer?

May as well just sponsor JJProdigy and be done with it.

lol at sponsoring PeachyMer, she is the absolute worst!

Todd Terry post sums it up perfectly

"Well, we have one more spot left on Team Online. Who do you think it should be?"

"I have the ideal candidate to become a public representative for PokerStars. She has privacy concerns so great that we'd have to list her under an alias. She won't want to answer any questions about herself. She doesn't want to show up at any live tournaments. Plus a good chunk of the high stakes tournament community believes someone else plays on her account at least some of the time."

"Perfect. Sign her up."

Wasn't Liv Boeree on GMTV or something like that? She seems the sort of person Stars can put forward as an advertisement. And she's appearing as a commentator on some new poker shows. etc.

Julian Thew on the other hand... sorry, who? I obviously know who he is but I'm someone who keeps up to date with the poker world and I don't really remember his name being mentioned recently. Doubt the general public have even heard of him.

 cliffs on thread?

obv know pm.

I find Liv B the most annoying player on tv, whether playing or commentating. All she ever does is whine like fuck whenever she doesn't win a hand.

However, she gets more exposure than most. A clerk at work, who's about 60, has heard of Liv after reading about her in one of the nationals after she won an EPT

Odds that Skypoker snap up Thewy?

The absolute worst or just the latest absolute worst? ;)

Haha spoke to Julian in Notts, I think i dropped the name of that site roughly 3.5secs into the convo!

I wouldn't be surprised if Julian took a break from big buyin poker.

A house full of children, a bank account full to overflowing, I don't see the point of him taking a deal worth significantly less than Stars gave him.

LOLZ guess I'm wrong again.

Horecki is a big name in Poland, Nelson ditto in New Zealand. Important for their regional tours.

Also, having done videos for Stars, you should see the ridiculous number of hits we get for some players because they have big followings in their own countries. e.g Richard Toth (insanely popular in Hungary)

But how many times more players on Stars are from Uk compared to Hungary and Poland?

50?

I think Julian Thew is Lovely, He was one of the first names I heard when I started playing, he was sponsered with william hill back then, and allways seemed very polite and happy to talk.

I then began to stalk him quite a bit, lololol - Him together with Neil Channing lolol.

I understand when these types of players (i.e.) sponsered are in a big tournament, they have to concentrate, and they need time in breaks to clear there head, however there are VERY FEW sponsered players who will even acknolodge you, crack a smile if you look at them, and say hi, they turn there nose up and walk the other way.

That is the attitude they give out anyway.

Just because you have had a big result, does not make u a better person than the average joe, a richer one, yes, a better player, yes, but no reason to turn your head up, especially if you can see how happy it would mean to that person if they got to speak to you for a couple of minutes.

He is such a nice guy, who is an awesome player, won countless live mtt's with huge cashes, and imo, the cream will ALLWAYS RISE TO THE TOP.

When Phil Ivey had his picture taken with me, he had been playing the main event (wsope) for X amount hrs, but he still took time out to stop and have it done, say hello, and make my liffe a happier place, people with as much talent, and decency are the pro players I respect.

Long Live the YO YO!! x

just spotted this & felt it warranted a reply.
my deal was up for renewal at the start of this month & it came as no surprise when it wasn't renewed - in short, i didn't perform & i didn't get out much.
flushy is right in that since vegas i didn't travel abroad; we had a new arrival over the new year & being around at home during the latter half of last year was more important than hitting the ept circuit.
my deal with stars wasn't huge & i'm embarrassed to say that i didn't even get to use up all of the budget.
as for the future, i'm not actively seeking a deal & am content donating playing some cash & the bigger comps at dtd, the ukipt tour & no doubt a trip to vegas...if i can wangle a pass.
ps...tx for the kind words all

Thewy should be sponsored by some sort of fertility treatment.

Shame the stars deal didnt work out mate but good that you put the family first, don't you ever get sick of being the nicest guy in poker?

I told Julian he needs to buy a telly for the house, or something.

Poor fella must be exhausted ;)

Stalking Channing???  You need help ;-)

Good luck for the future Julian, fwiw, I think you're a great ambassador for the game, whether you have a sponsor or not.

On another note, I lol everytime someone talks about sites 'snapping' people up.

Doesn't that just mean the Hungarian and Polish pros will have an easier time attracting new sign ups?

Getting rid of Julian is stars loss ,why instead of sponsoring players don't they put some extra cash back into the game  that for one would make me want to play on their site (shame  i am barred). The gukpt have put up a extra £300 k and purely for that reason i have started doing my money on bluesq.

Stars have obv changed policy and instead of Good people like Julian are going for mystery multi accounters instead

It would be nice if they announced the comings and goings.

Do people who have been dropped really want the site to be publicising their demise. I know it all comes out in the end, but I am not sure I would want it on the stars site for example. Seems like a bit of a rub.

Wish them well for the future, thank them for their efforts blah de blah.

I hope they drop Humberto and Ramdin next.

i like humberto. he is a shark and has a funny little toy of one. its great

and he does that rolling his sleeves up thing before he goes all-in, and some times says his own name theatrically HUM-BER-TOOOOOOOO

gl mate and family is always  gonna be number 1....just wondered but everyone knows you are the nicest guy in poker. who do you think is the 2nd nicest guy in poker. love jason. x

glad you like it too. really awesome.

He has an excellent tash too. + i believe is the inspiration behind why pramesh bansi wears a visor hat.

he's so annoying and stupid. wastes so much time in such a slow format as it is!

Good luck Jules, nice to see you have the right priorities.

Just want to make it crystal clear that if Jules was still pounding the European circuit then he would be one of the best people stars could sponsor as everyone has said he is the nice guy of poker.

As for why they have a billion pro's from eastern Europe who sat at the tables of every EPT looking like they have 2 months to live i have no idea.

Humberto tilts me hard

They are probably all in their 20's in my experience, eastern europeans all look like they have had a tough paper round.

People really underestimate how big these "billion pro's from eastern Europe who sat at the tables of every EPT looking like they have 2 months to live i have no idea" are. The players in their community worship them on a completely different level to the way we admire the "nicest guy in poker".

Could someone send me the link pls.

Of that i am sure but why not make playing an EPT a more enjoyable experience for those on your table seeing as you represent that site/tour

Won my biggest ever live pot off Ramdin in the PCA about 3 or 4 years ago. Paid for a couple of holidays that fker did, tyvm Victor  :)up

hh Woodsey come on!

Hand pls woodrow

Pah, I'm shyte at remembering hands, especially from that long ago. But a $10/20 game playing deepish, I flopped a set of 2's, in a multiway pot on a K high board with 2 hearts. Ramdin had AK hearts, another guy had KQ. Loads of action on the flop, KQ got out the way on the turn to an all in from me and Ramdin called, he missed and I shipped around $9k I think.

Played with a ton of the 'names' that night as they were all jumping into the game while waiting for the $25/50, which was the biggest game running that year I think.

Botswana and Namibia safaris ftw after that  ;D

A friend of mine is doing a dissertation on celebrity endorsement in online poker advertising at the moment. He has invited me along at the weekend to a focus group on this on Saturday.

So,

Who do you think is good value
Who do you think isn't
Who do you reckon would be a good pick for a sponsorship from a decent online site (who doesn't already have one)

Reasons why?

Also

General thoughts on online poker site sponsoring

Geo

Who do you think is good value
Anyone who brings with them a ready made target audience of potential new players. So sports stars, actors, musicians, attractive people and people from underrepresented poker demographics.

And Phil Hellmuth, regrettably.


Who do you think isn't
Talented male poker professionals

Who do you reckon would be a good pick for a sponsorship from a decent online site (who doesn't already have one)
This is surely the same as question one?

General thoughts on online poker site sponsoring
Put more money into in house promotions instead OR sponsor players who rake high/show loyalty to the site as an incentive.

My bad, Q1 was aimed at currently sponsored pros.

Geo

Q3 has to be that good looking loud mouthed friendly good humoured chatty but useless poker player they call ironside

wow Raymer with FTP now.

First player to ever cross between the 2 sites i believe?

That is a big suprise, I would have thought there would have been some sort of 'dont join FTP' clause in most contracts even after expiration.

this shows FTP is intent on taking stars on head to head. FT have been stopping some of their players from playing certain stars event. Stars dominate the live scene but i think full tilt have most of the tv  coverage of late. Think stars have dropped the ball with raymer and tilt have picked up a good man. Who next? Julian thew imo

million.

didn't sandra nicenorks or whatever her name is moved to stars from ftp?

i think she's incred.

(http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq267/ppokerfan/sandranicenorks.jpg)

Like?

some high rollers possibly pca then a televised show in the states. may have read it in a magazine somewhere??

They stopped their pros playing on High Stakes Poker as it's a stars show. Don't know if that's what you mean.

oh that was poss it cos but i am 75% certain ft pro's boycotted for want of a better word the pca high roller. flushy is in  a better position but am sure ft would never openly admit it. competition is good for all

Will someone give me odds that before the end of 2012 Pokerstars buys, acquires or merges with FullTilt.

do you know the market share of both companies keith?

Not exactly.

I'd estimate Stars has twice as much of the market as FT.

Just a guess though.

I don't know enough to give odds, but I would be extremely surprised if Stars were ever to go this route. 

I've heard rumours Howard, Jesus and the rest want to cash their chips in.

Can't see anyone apart from Stars else paying what they think FT is worth.

cant seet anyone buying an existing site with the current climate in US and doubt that existing operators might not get licenes if regulation goes ahead

that being said cant blame the boys for wanting out...................... and if there was legal clarity  -what a great buy for one of teh big casino chains wanting a big entrance

Both the 100k and 25k had tilt players in...

Full Tilt do on occasion say events we 'should avoid playing' none have been stars events.

Some of the stars tv cash games have had no tilt pros, i am not sure if that is stars doing or tilts.

How much is FT worth today?

$1 billion?

$500 million?

Can't see Harrah's or MGM paying that. Both would set up new operations instead.

wouldn't tilt float on the stock market if they wanted to cash out or is that not wise with the US legislation as it is?

chinese business men in macau or a board/trickett joint venture

Must be worth more than a billion (I have no idea though) I would have guessed around 3-5billion $ ??

would stars be allowed to buy full tilt? I know Tesco got stopped from buying safeway back in the day is there a similar market policing in this industry (seems unlikely thinking about it)

mmmmmm would be a huge huge deal

Those numbers are based upon what, if I may ask?

Float on stock market = pull out of US. Tilt sure are going to do that.


As you have concluded, who would police it? There'd be nothing to stop any deal from a legislative point of view.

dave using his fingers to count

like I say tikay I have no real idea, That's just what I thought, they must turnover more than a billion US a year?

Mind you thinking about it, they wont have any assets of value really, and must pay out a FORTUNE in pro bounties/advertising etc, so net profits might be much lower than expected.

Out of interest Flushy if you win a tourney do you get you're pro bounty?

haha nice hand ;)

touche

 rotflmfao

From Pokerscout (admittedly only cash player numbers, so a rough guide) Tilt are 4 times bigger that Party.

We know Party's poker numbers (£125m in poker revenues last year) because they have to announce it to the stock market.

Therefore Tilt are about £500m ($800m) a year in revenues.

What this would put a market cap at, I don't know.

EDIT: Tilt probably make more as a % from tourneys than Party, as the extra liquidity means more to a tourney player than a cash player, so that would be $800m at an absolute minimum - prob more like $900m-$1bn.

Because there are no domicile considerations in OnlinePoker...the assets and domains being held offshore, in theory the industry obviates any anti-trust/monopolies considerations that would exist from the global number 1 and 2's getting together in any other industry

Have absolutely no clarity as to how much they make though, or indeed what multiple to put on those earnings. Presumably there would be huge cost synergies (back office, marketing, platform etc) from putting any two like this together, but presumably Tilt would demand a huge acquisition premium that Stars would have no need to pay.

Must be quite a longshot

Has Raymer actually signed for FT or is it a one shot deal for the NBC HU?

lisa condon has just moved from boyle poker to full tilt in dublin. and she is taking with her  her considerable pair of assets

The turnover is not relevant to it's value, as such. It's Value is x times it's annual earnings, (profit) plus cash at bank & assets. It's assets are primarily it's software.

"x" in a dot.com boom company could be as daft as 30 or 40 times. In a dull but solid enginerering company, maybe just 6 or 8 times.

An Online Poker Gaming Room would trade at - let's guess, say, 15 times ebitda. Now put a discount in, for it's grey legality, lack of regulation, & the fact that gaming earnings are traditionally classed as inherently risky, & of low value. (Which is why Laddies "split out" the High-Rollers in their Annual Accounts).

I think you'd end up at around 6 or 8, allowing for the industry maturity, & the fact that Online Poker's downward graph is accelerating rapidly, & Legislation is working it's way around the world to control & perhaps tax them.

So, just figure what their annual earnings are, then multiply that by, say, 8 or 10, & you have the value. Strategics could change that multiple significantly, of course.

So the answer is it could be anything......

And the value to Stars even less given the majority of FT players have a stars account.

Sandy

By peculiar coincidence - see an imminent Post in my diary - I was looking at this site yesterday - it is the Wiki page of Full-tilt.

I nearly fainted when I saw how many Pros they have on board! Including "Team Full-Tilt", "Full Tilt Pros" & Friendsof Full-Tilt" there must be close to 200!

Ps - How many blondes there?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Tilt_Poker

VERY relevant, that. No need to pay for players - & that's what it amounts to - you already have.

Then there is the i-Poker-Tribeca model to consider - buy it to close it.

Reduce that Multiple to 4 or 5, then.

When I went I did economics at school the value of a company was 20 times the annual proft.

Because of the doubts over the future of online poker in the USA FT would be worth somewhat less than this.

I would assume if Stars did take them over they would immediately shut it down.

Surely not - they'd just keep it running and making profits?

Possibly less, possibly more - it depends upon how "sexy" the business is, & how it fits in with current City Institutional thinking.

I think Rolls-Royce currently trades at about 15, with high street supermarket chains (mature markets, etc) at 12 or 13. It can be anything, really, but I'd assume a standalone Online Poker room would be single digits, after dicounting for lowered traffic patterns, legislative concerns, & the discount that all Gaming Companies are traded at.

I did some weird back-of-the-envelope numbers for FT whilst having a lie down just now, & I'd take a stab at 20% either side of $1 billion. That's not an offer, though. It's almost certainly complete bollox, too, but I can't be doing with numbers plucked out of the air, there has to be some foundation to them.

FT is rigged, of course. A bloke said as much next door, this week, so it must be true. He knew what he was talking about, too, he'd played live, several times, in Newcastle.

That'd be as illogical as, say, Rank running Blue Square.com, & then opening Grosvenor.com, two sets of overheads competing against one another.

Oh, wait......

Increase their rake by 10%.

How long would it take to cover the billion?

2 years?

If the market believes that the company has a future of high revenue growth year on year, actual recorded profits are not a big deal in the valuation of the business.

I actually believe Stars need FT in play as a competitor to both keep the market fresh and their own team motivated.  I buy the FT pros wanting to get out now,  however they may do better by selling small chunks, than exiting entirely.