Greg Raymer No Longer on Team Pokerstars

[tikay]

Must be worth more than a billion (I have no idea though) I would have guessed around 3-5billion $ ??
would stars be allowed to buy full tilt? I know Tesco got stopped from buying safeway back in the day is there a similar market policing in this industry (seems unlikely thinking about it)

mmmmmm would be a huge huge deal

Those numbers are based upon what, if I may ask?

[AndrewT]

wouldn't tilt float on the stock market if they wanted to cash out or is that not wise with the US legislation as it is?

Float on stock market = pull out of US. Tilt sure are going to do that.

would stars be allowed to buy full tilt? I know Tesco got stopped from buying safeway back in the day is there a similar market policing in this industry (seems unlikely thinking about it)

As you have concluded, who would police it? There'd be nothing to stop any deal from a legislative point of view.

[smashedagain]

Must be worth more than a billion (I have no idea though) I would have guessed around 3-5billion $ ??
would stars be allowed to buy full tilt? I know Tesco got stopped from buying safeway back in the day is there a similar market policing in this industry (seems unlikely thinking about it)

mmmmmm would be a huge huge deal

Those numbers are based upon what, if I may ask?

dave using his fingers to count

[SuuPRlim]

like I say tikay I have no real idea, That's just what I thought, they must turnover more than a billion US a year?

Mind you thinking about it, they wont have any assets of value really, and must pay out a FORTUNE in pro bounties/advertising etc, so net profits might be much lower than expected.

Out of interest Flushy if you win a tourney do you get you're pro bounty?

[SuuPRlim]

dave using his fingers to count

haha nice hand

[outragous76]

dave using his fingers to count

haha nice hand

touche

 

[AndrewT]

From Pokerscout (admittedly only cash player numbers, so a rough guide) Tilt are 4 times bigger that Party.

We know Party's poker numbers (£125m in poker revenues last year) because they have to announce it to the stock market.

Therefore Tilt are about £500m ($800m) a year in revenues.

What this would put a market cap at, I don't know.

EDIT: Tilt probably make more as a % from tourneys than Party, as the extra liquidity means more to a tourney player than a cash player, so that would be $800m at an absolute minimum - prob more like $900m-$1bn.

[TightEnd]

Because there are no domicile considerations in OnlinePoker...the assets and domains being held offshore, in theory the industry obviates any anti-trust/monopolies considerations that would exist from the global number 1 and 2's getting together in any other industry

Have absolutely no clarity as to how much they make though, or indeed what multiple to put on those earnings. Presumably there would be huge cost synergies (back office, marketing, platform etc) from putting any two like this together, but presumably Tilt would demand a huge acquisition premium that Stars would have no need to pay.

Must be quite a longshot

[TommyD]

Has Raymer actually signed for FT or is it a one shot deal for the NBC HU?

[smashedagain]

lisa condon has just moved from boyle poker to full tilt in dublin. and she is taking with her  her considerable pair of assets

[tikay]

like I say tikay I have no real idea, That's just what I thought, they must turnover more than a billion US a year?

Mind you thinking about it, they wont have any assets of value really, and must pay out a FORTUNE in pro bounties/advertising etc, so net profits might be much lower than expected.

Out of interest Flushy if you win a tourney do you get you're pro bounty?

The turnover is not relevant to it's value, as such. It's Value is x times it's annual earnings, (profit) plus cash at bank & assets. It's assets are primarily it's software.

"x" in a dot.com boom company could be as daft as 30 or 40 times. In a dull but solid enginerering company, maybe just 6 or 8 times.

An Online Poker Gaming Room would trade at - let's guess, say, 15 times ebitda. Now put a discount in, for it's grey legality, lack of regulation, & the fact that gaming earnings are traditionally classed as inherently risky, & of low value. (Which is why Laddies "split out" the High-Rollers in their Annual Accounts).

I think you'd end up at around 6 or 8, allowing for the industry maturity, & the fact that Online Poker's downward graph is accelerating rapidly, & Legislation is working it's way around the world to control & perhaps tax them.

So, just figure what their annual earnings are, then multiply that by, say, 8 or 10, & you have the value. Strategics could change that multiple significantly, of course.

So the answer is it could be anything......

[henrik777]

And the value to Stars even less given the majority of FT players have a stars account.

Sandy

[tikay]

By peculiar coincidence - see an imminent Post in my diary - I was looking at this site yesterday - it is the Wiki page of Full-tilt.

I nearly fainted when I saw how many Pros they have on board! Including "Team Full-Tilt", "Full Tilt Pros" & Friendsof Full-Tilt" there must be close to 200!

Ps - How many blondes there?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Tilt_Poker

[tikay]

And the value to Stars even less given the majority of FT players have a stars account.

Sandy

VERY relevant, that. No need to pay for players - & that's what it amounts to - you already have.

Then there is the i-Poker-Tribeca model to consider - buy it to close it.

Reduce that Multiple to 4 or 5, then.

[The Camel]

When I went I did economics at school the value of a company was 20 times the annual proft.

Because of the doubts over the future of online poker in the USA FT would be worth somewhat less than this.

I would assume if Stars did take them over they would immediately shut it down.