blonde poker forum

Looking very nasty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12709598

Tsunami pics on Sky News are amazing - If you understand my meaning.

Can't see the pictures because the "Breaking News" banners are covering half the screen.

Reports of aftershocks, including one of a magnitude of 7.1. That's bigger than the earthquake that struck Haiti.

My current client is a Japanese company in the City. Lots of pretty worried faces this morning  :(

Just seen coverage from Oarai in Ibaraki prefecture (showing a boat caught in some vortex in a harbour).  That's only about 20 miles from where I used to live.  Scary stuff.

The death toll is rising, it's going to be a lot more than the 26 they've reported so far.  Other countries don't have the tsunami protection or infrastructure to deal with an earthquake, and some of the Pacific islands are going to be hit hard by the tsunami.

Hawaii hit in about 3hrs

Awful stuff, incredible pictures

The red cross is saying the height of the Tsunami is higher than some Pacific Islands

West coast of states on warning now as well, looking very scary.

Due to hit Philippines within the next hour:

Hopefully looking at the alerted areas we are on the opposite coast that is forecast to be affected, although the next province to us IS on alert.

Chatting to Roxanne and she said "it's ok we will just pray"

Listening to a report on the tv from Taiwan where the tsunami should have hit already and the have not had anything yet

These pictures on http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12710020 are just incredible

What sort of warning would they have had?

Is it litetrally just hours?

In Japan, they have warning systems - but as the epicentre was so close to Japan and the severity of the earthquake was so high, they won't have had much warning at all.  Minutes really.

Hopefully the other countries that are in the path of tsunami have enough time to move people to higher ground.

The further away the longer warning they get............

Deadliest earthquakes from recent times (taken from BBC site):

26 Dec 2004, Sumatra, Indonesia: 9.1 quake and tsunami kills 227,898 across Pacific region

12 Jan 2010, Haiti: 222,570 killed, 7.0

12 May 2008, Sichuan, China: 87,587 killed, 7.9

8 Oct 2005, Pakistan: 80,361 killed, 7.6

20 June 1990, Manjil, Iran: 40,000 killed, 7.4

26 Dec 2003, Bam, Iran: 31,000 killed, 6.6

16 Jan 2001, Gujurat, India: 20,023 killed, 7.7

17 Aug 1999, Izmit, Turkey: 17,118 killed, 7.6

30 Sep 1993 Latur, India: 9,748 killed, 6.2

16 Jan 1995, Kobe, Japan: 5,530 dead, 6.9

Apparently this was the 6th largest earthquake recorded since monitoring began around 1900.   Thousands of times more energy than the one that hit New Zealand recently, that one was so damaging because the epicentre was right on a city.

nothing tilts me more than rolling death toll counts

"36 dead"

it will be 1000's by this time tomorrow - so what is news worthy of reporting 36 dead?  - false hope imo

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/iwate-tsunami.png)

Unbelievable pictures. 

Small earthquakes are frightening enough, something like this must be bloody terrifying.

Nuclear Plant  in Northeast Japan on fire!! - And they're saying they can't pump water to cool the reactor down!

Papua New Guinea 11:30am  , Solomon Islands 12:30 , Samoa 14:50 , Cook Islands 15:00 , Australia 15:30 , New Zealand 17:30 . Tsunami e.t.a  just given on Sky news.

(Our time obv)

Just saw an image of where the epicentre was. Quite a bit off the coast but it still did all that damage. Just imagine if it was further west... could have been strong enough to take out half the country?

That's why they shut the reactors down when there's an earthquake of significant force, so they don't need ongoing cooling.

There are four nuclear power stations on the East coast of Japan, and quite a few other nuclear-processing plants, etc. in that area.  You'd hope that they're all safe.

I was talking to a colleague in Tokyo over Skype about an hour ago and I can hear a scraping noise in the background.

"That's my desk moving"....

The aftershocks are pretty bad. All public transport is suspended in Tokyo - they're spending Friday night in the office.

The Richter scale is not linear though. An 8.0 releases 31 times more energy that a 7.0 and 1000 times more than than a 6.0. Look at the strengths quoted above - and this was an *8.9*.

the tsunami reaches Sendai airport

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l12lIDKYsYo

Just awful. Really puts everything into perspective...

We can only the other countries can evacuate the coast in time

xx

Yes, the logarithmic scale hides the differences in magnitude at first glance.  I think they've said that this earthquake was 8,000 times more powerful than the one that hit New Zealand.  Of course there are other factors that determine the damage they cause - such as where the epicentre is and how deep the earthquake is, etc.

Very scary.

I though each point up the scale was 10 x more energy than the last? ie 7.0 is 10x more than 6.0 and 8.0 is 10x more than 7.0 and so on and so forth? At least I thought that's what they taught me at uni? (http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww249/mikill_thomas/unsure.gif)

I always thought the same woodsey. seems the 10x is shaking amplitude, 31x is energy release. assume that's because amplitude is in a straight line and the energy goes in all directions or something like that so what's felt is only 10x even though it's much more powerful but I could be talking bollocks

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale) says 10x horizontal amplitude, not energy.

Er well.......you know what I mean't, I just knew it was 10x for each point up the scale.

Yeah, sorry if that came over the wrong way. I thought the same as you, was surprised to see just how scarily quick the energy increases.

24 hr news has made a massive difference to this kind of stuff. If I remember correctly the Indonesian Tsunami was the first one they ever really caught on camera properly to study.

Looks like the tsunami isn't going to be anywhere near as bad for other countries such as Indonesia - which is a huge relief.

Unfortunately, it looks like the numbers of dead in Japan will be in the thousands rather than hundreds.

It was an oil refinery that was on fire, looked like a gas leak (according to the chaps here who know about these things).

Shutting down a reactor doesn't stop it producing heat, unfortunately. Somewhere between 5-10% of the energy is purely from radioactive decay (for enriched uranium) rather than induced fission, so there will still be a fairly big heat load. Japanese reactors are pretty decent though, should be able to cope. Simple convection will cope with a fair bit, even if your pumps fail.

Jeeeeeeez these new pics are pretty dramatic stuff!

The official Kyodo news agency is reporting that about 88,000 people are missing.  :(

not surprised at all and only enforces my point about rediculous report of "36 dead" etc

think we just need to be thankful that it appears the knock on effects on other countries and islands isnt being reported as too catastrophic atm

The pics were of the oil refinery in Tokyo, but there was a fire at a nuclear plant as well.  Apparently there's no radiation leak.

Although there was an accident at a processing plant in Ibaraki prefecture not long after I'd come back to the UK.  Someone had put the wrong bit of something into some acid (not sure on the details) and it had given off a dangerous cloud of radioactiveness.  The authorities didn't alert the public for hours, and then told people to stay indoors (hours too late).  Just makes me a little anxious when the authorities say it's all OK...

Found something about it here:
http://www.isis-online.org/publications/tokai.html

reminiscent of chernobyl where the soviets didn't admit anything had happened until the radiation was detected in sweden

This list is a quite shock indictment on the Western news media.

Of those 10 I recall heavy news coverage of the top 2 and a bit about number 3.

I can't remember the other 7 being covered at all.

some amazing photos from the ny times

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/11/world/asia/20110311_japan.html?ref=asia#19

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/03/powerful-japan-quake-sparks-ts.html

State of nuclear emergency!

Frightening.

lol what 10 was a huge news story when i was a kid.

3 4 8 and 6 i remember very well, Bam especially so.

@AndreaTOAP Scientists on CNN now is saying entire island of #Honshu #Japan moved eastward by 8 feet (2.3 m)

;gobsmacked;

Now hearing they might leak raidation out into the sky to help cooling?  Did I hear right?

Better than a blow up if true surely.

defo, just doesn't seem right!  I guess the nuclear scientists know a lil more than me tho!

An explosion at Fukushima-1:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4uogOEUrU

That's not good news.

This is scary.

Skynews showing a before and after photo of North east town Minamisanriku. Completely unbelieveable - total devastation.

Trying to find pics

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html

Cant find the before picture but this one shows the complete destruction of this town. This used to be a built up area and it has just been wiped off the face of the earth.

The scale of the clean up/rebuild process is unimaginable - where do you even think about starting?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm

Look at these pictures to see the devastation.  Like Alex said, whole towns literally washed away.

So sad.

Just wow.

Great article which explains why the radioactivity you would get from flying to japan would be worse than wandering around at the moment outside the plant.

http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/ (http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/)

I dont think he is very impressed with the mainstream media and multiple contiued factual inaccuracies.

Good article, makes a lot of sense.

a day spent at pripyat, where the chernobyl plant was, gives you less radiation than a flight to new york and that one actually blew up

Pretty amazing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/13/japan-tsunami-survivor-shinkawa-rescued-fukushima?CMP=twt_fd

wow. I love that he's sat on his own roof but it's 10 miles away from where it should be

Is that comment for real?

you do realise that this is the worst example of human carnage and devastation that we are ever likely to see in our life time?

I honestly dont think people have appreciated the importance of this event. Cheltenenham conversations and PHA conversations make me quite sick right now

What would you like people to do ? Yeah it's a horrible situation and it's a huge disaster but there's not much we can do about it is there ? I'm all for empathy but its pretty unrealistic to expect people not to carry on with there daily lives when they aren't directly effected, it's how people are and if they weren't, everyone would go insane.

ok, gl next time you have a bad run, i am sure it will be a bad time and it will be really crap



maybe i take life more seriously than most


my bad...

Massive +1.

If we were to stop, for every horrid thing that happened in the world. We would never do anything apart from bemoan how unfair life is.

You've literally picked the worst person on Blonde to do this to, honestly, check my posts :)

Why were you even clicking on PHA anyway if you're so concerned. Why even log onto a poker forum?

I've had far too much to drink to have this conversation, so I'll just say I'm sorry for the people who have been affected by the Tsunami, just as I am for the poverty stricken people in Africa just like I am for the people who live as slaves in our own country, the world is a pretty brutal place.

Agree with those who say what are we supposed to do?

It's horrible but then where do you make the distinction between events? There's some pretty fucked up shit going on in Libya atm too- which takes precendence?

err, was that rant referring to my post? if so then it's a major wtf moment

maybe go calm down and come back and reread your last few posts in the morning

 ;popcorn;

Come on boys, I mean seriously!!! I know everyone feels pissed off right now but just take a step back and breathe!! You're all mates FFS, well, virtually at least...kind of-ish..you know what I mean!!

I also have friends in Japan and it's a fecking awful tragedy whats happening out there...same with the Philippines, and Twin Towers & as already mentioned Libya is in a right fecking mess!!!!!

It would be sooooo fucked up if you all perma-fell out on at thread that's supposed to keep everyone updated with the poor awfulness of the situation in Japan...Don't ya think!

Can we not continue with this, and start again

Please....Do cause I'm new here innit!! I'm also QM on Tuesday and could do with all the support I can get as I'll need it!!

xx

[link=topic=52336.msg1334238#msg1334238 date=1300057917]

Is that comment for real?

you do realise that this is the worst example of human carnage and devastation that we are ever likely to see in our life time?

[/quote]

Although the death toll is not yet known, it's likely to be tens of thousands rather than the hundreds of thousands that died in the boxing day tsunami of 2004.

The final death toll in Haiti last year was over 80,000.

800,000 died in the Rwandan civil war in the 90s.

I believe that life is a gift and, while there is certainly a time for melancholy and quiet reflection, we should spend most of the time we have enjoying ourselves. You never know when it will be snatched away.

Pretty awesome post Tank.

To be fair to Alex, I can see why he was offended by Gatso's post though.

Generally, although I have seen a few bad taste jokes around on this disaster, I'd say the volume of those is far less than to other recent events. None on here either, and none deleted.

Quite a shock for everyone I think. Saw this one last night. Just remarkable

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zfCBCq-8I




Quoted from a news correspondent on twitter today, so it remains a scary time
Brittle bright day,wind cold from south - bad for radiation drift: Second reactor has blown at Fukushima: Four nuke power stations at risk

and that's wtf moment number 2

I was expressing amazement at a pretty stunning story of human survival. if people can get offended by that then they probably need to step away from their computers, tv screens and newspapers for a while

or maybe when a few people say the same thing independantly you should reassess what you said and realise it might have caused offence

I know the whole thing is horrible, but for me one thing sticks out and has done since the start...


The loss of life, while it's dreadful, is relatively small in comparison to other events on much smaller scales.  I'm probably explaining myself all wrong here, but I can't help being in awe of their overall success in limiting loss of life considering how badly they were hit. 

Property damage is massive.  But that can be fixed in time.  Lives can't be replaced.  With all of their efforts to protect against this type of thing, they've actually saved quite a few.

I really want this thread to get back on track, so I won't be doing any arguing.

I'm deservedly known as over-sensitive - ooh, such a sin - & this dreadful tragedy has moved me, & I suppose everyone, to different degrees.

But, BEFORE Gatters Posted that, I had thought EXACTLY what he did.

Here's my angle, & I assume, it's pretty much gatters angle, too.

This Japanese guy - fairly old, I think, 60+? - must, we assume, have climbed onto his roof when the tsunami struck, to try to be above the torrent of rising water.

His thought as his house get's washed away cannot be imagined.

Think about what happened. He's stood on the roof of his house, & the tsunami rips his house away from it's footings, & the whole house/roof is washed, like, a mile, 2 miles, inland. While he's stood on it, aghast.

And THEN......

The tsunami "ebb" takes him back towards the shore, from where he began. And onwards, out to sea, several miles out to sea.

All the while, this 60+ year old guy is stood on the roof of his house.

It's an extraordinary thing.

And my initial thoughts, amongst all this dreadful tragedy, & incomprehensible loss of life, was that it was the first moment I could smile, & wonder at a true & incredible miracle. It was almost black humour.

It remains the only image of the tragedy so far I have found uplifting.

I really do not think any offence was intended.

^^^^^^^^that^^^^^^^

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12729138

The focus of the media seems to be on the fear element surrounding the nuclear power plants and the 'worst-case scenarios'.  Words such as melt-down and even 'nuclear explosion' have been used in reports by news agencies that should know better.  It's tabloid sensationalism, and very inaccurate.

Very little focus on the fact that the plants have withstood two massive disasters and the scientists, engineers and emergency teams have put systems and processes in place to minimise the danger to the public. The nuclear physicists continue to reiterate that the reactors are 'safe' in terms of containing the core and the level of radiation the local environment is being exposed to is minimal.  Some of the experts who have been on the 24-hour news channels have been excellent - but the presenters still seem to want to focus on the Armageddon scenarios rather than what is actually happening.  The fact that scientists will not rule something out as impossible, even if the chance of happening is minutely remote, means that this is often reported as being a definite possibility. 

There are whole villages/towns of people who are missing, numbering tens of thousands - that's the real disaster and tragic story.   

The sad footnote to the story is that his wife didn't survive. 

The poor chap must have thought the whole thing was a dream/nightmare. We cannot begin to imagine.

But the tale still made me smile. Not malice smile, just glory be, at how human spirit can, sometimes, overcome massive odds to survive.

I feel for Alex, who has clearly been much moved by the whole thing, & I think it was that which caused him & others to perhaps misunderstand Gatters Post.  I don't believe for a second that Gatters was making light of it.

In years to come, films & books & TV progs will be made about this tragedy. I bet "the man on the roof of his house" features in every one, it will become one of THE iconic images.

i have seen several heart warming moments, a father and son walked for 2 days trying to find wife and daughter - we will obv never know whether it was a modern tv "set up", but their emotion when they walked into a shelter and find them was truely amazing and seemed very genuine. That is a heart warming story.

a guy on a roof several miles out at sea having lost everything including his family can never be described as "funny"

but nice try

people leeping from windows of the world trade centre will be an inconic image for the remainder of time, but it doesnt make it any less distressing

The elderly "Gent on roof" survived, against all odds. I smiled at him, & for him, it made me happy. Personally, I'm quite comfortable with that.

The difference being, they died. 

And despite all the odds being stacked against him, that old man survived.  With all the horror of this thing...is it really wrong to be happy he was found alive? 

[  ] that was the point i was making

and oh right he survived - hehe titter titter - yes i bet he is ecstatic

relevance? that's the first use of the word 'funny' on this thread. you can't just introduce a word yourself and then moan about others using it when that didn't happen

There is the 'rebuilding' issue for Japan to face after the rescue operations and other immediate concerns are over.

They obviously need power for this, and that's a big problem.  About 30% of their power is from nuclear power, and the Fukushima plant was one of the biggest (if not the biggest?) producers of electrical power in the country.  It's now permanently offline (the use of seawater as a coolant would render the plants useless anyway, without the other issues they've faced.

So they'll have to look at alternatives and look at measures to cut electricity usage - a big ask in an industrialised nation that is more reliant than most on electricity. 

I was watching an interview with a young Japanese man (university student age) who lives in Tokyo, and he said that he'd made sure he'd unplugged everything to make sure he wasn't wasting any electricity.  A small gesture (as is the switching off of the iconic screens in Tokyo's Shibuya district) - but something that makes a difference when it's done by the 130million people across the country and by businesses, etc.  One thing Japan has massively in its favour is social cohesiveness.  Of course, it's a terrible disaster and the human cost is immense, but Japan will be able to deal with it better than most countries could in a similar situation.

Watching this student talk and mention his small efforts to help made me smile.

my bad you didnt say funny - you said you loved it - you sicko

It was Gatso's description that wasn't very good.

Obv his intention wasn't one of malice. Those of us who know Gatso whished by the comment because we know he obv didn't mean harm by it and it was prob just a poor way of saying what Anthony Kendall's post just did.

Can understand how it was taken the wrong way.

It wasn't what you said that caused offence, it was the way you said it.

feel free to enlighten me as to which of these definitions you were referring to

love   /lʌv/  Show Spelled
[luhv]  Show IPA
noun, verb, loved, lov·ing. 
–noun
1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.
3. sexual passion or desire.
4. a person toward whom love is felt; beloved person; sweetheart.
5. (used in direct address as a term of endearment, affection, or the like): Would you like to see a movie, love?
6. a love affair; an intensely amorous incident; amour.
7. sexual intercourse; copulation.
8. ( initial capital letter ) a personification of sexual affection, as Eros or Cupid.
9. affectionate concern for the well-being of others: the love of one's neighbor.
10. strong predilection, enthusiasm, or liking for anything: her love of books.
11. the object or thing so liked: The theater was her great love.
12. the benevolent affection of god for His creatures, or the reverent affection due from them to God.
13. Chiefly Tennis . a score of zero; nothing.
14. a word formerly used in communications to represent the letter L.
–verb (used with object)
15. to have love or affection for: All her pupils love her.
16. to have a profoundly tender, passionate affection for (another person).
17. to have a strong liking for; take great pleasure in: to love music.
18. to need or require; benefit greatly from: Plants love sunlight.
19. to embrace and kiss (someone), as a lover.
20. to have sexual intercourse with.
–verb (used without object)
21. to have love or affection for another person; be in love.
—Verb phrase
22. love up, to hug and cuddle: She loves him up every chance she gets.
—Idioms
23. for love,
a. out of affection or liking; for pleasure.
b. without compensation; gratuitously: He took care of the poor for love.
24. for the love of, in consideration of; for the sake of: For the love of mercy, stop that noise.
25. in love, infused with or feeling deep affection or passion: a youth always in love.
26. in love with, feeling deep affection or passion for (a person, idea, occupation, etc.); enamored of: in love with the girl next door; in love with one's work.
27. make love,
a. to embrace and kiss as lovers.
b. to engage in sexual activity.
28. no love lost, dislike; animosity: There was no love lost between the two brothers

My money is on number 3

Sick, 'look at me binking and cashing comps left right and centre brag' posts where all you talk about is your money.

ffs

Lets cool it please

*** posts deleted ***


thanks

9 is Appropriate for gats posts no?

Japan are in a really tough spot with regard to electricity generation, they have very few oil & gas resources so they have to import them all. By generating 30% of their electricity by nuclear power they are minimising their purchases of Oil from the gulf.

For the future they are going to need to make a decision soon as to how to generate electricity for the next 40 years - either more oil burning plants which will have the problems with the neverending cost of the raw material going up (+ environmental problems) or build new nuclear power stations.

I think they will have no choice and will build new ones - they could build plants that can survive an 9.0 earthquake and a tsunami and a hydrogen gas explosion with only "minor" problems, in the 70's - the new ones will be even better. (i guess you could argue that their problems are not "minor" but I think anything less than a core explosion (the equivalent of a dirty bomb) is a good outcome)

On Kins point about the media - I wish experts would use statistics more - i know the broadcasters think that the viewers are too stupid to understand them but i think that an answers that says <0.1% is a lot better that saying "very small possibility" which a viewer may take to mean <10%

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12733393

Look at the headline of that page - "Japan earthquake: Meltdown alert at Fukushima reactor".  It sounds as there's an alert about a meltdown at the plant.  That's not actually the case.

So obv that Gatso's remark was a celebration of survival and life I can't believe people are making a spectacle of themselves trying to tell him how he should express himself - utter bollocks

Fwiw I wasn't offended by Gatso's post.

When I read it I thought "That's a bit insensitive", but thought nothing more about it until I saw Alex's tirade.

I was simply playing Devil's Advocate because I thought the rush to condemn Alex was a bit harsh.

I certainly wouldn't dream of telling Gatso how to express himself.

I think this was aimed at me keith

I wasnt offended by the remark although I did think it was very insensitive. Continuing to justify it rather than just say " i probably didnt mean what you interpretted it as" and maybe a "sorry if i offended you" is obv not in gatso's  make up.

but apparently im the villain here - obv

A few points for my POV on the whole thing...

Firstly, I've read gatso's comment multiple times. And I fail to see how it either a) intended to cause offence, or b) how it actually caused offence. I just don't see it. I don't think it was even worded badly as others have stated - I think the meaning is incredibly obvious. Yeah, I guess the use of the word "love" can cause ambiguity but I'd think most people should be able to interpret the context in which it was used.

Secondly, life goes on for the rest of us. Yeah, what happened to Japan is awful, but that doesn't mean I'm going to put my own life on hold sitting and doing nothing but feel sorry for them. That's not how it works. If this was how we did things then you'd put the news on in the morning, read the tragedy of the day, and never get anything done. But ultimately in this case it's nothing to do with me. That's not to say I have no empathy but we simply can't worry about everyone elses problems. eg, my best friends mother died just over a year ago. Obviously this shook me, and a lot of my time around this period was spent checking to see my friend was ok, arranging things to do, comforting him, etc. This is one of the things friends are for - I wouldn't expect the people in Japan to have been worrying about him at this point.

And finally the subject of finding it "funny". Simply put: yes, I find the idea of someone using the roof of their house as a boat amusing. That's not to say I actually like what has happened. If it was my choice his house would still be one piece and there'd be no disaster. But I can't change that. The story obviously also has the against all odds miracle surviving aspect, but i'm not even going to claim to use that as justification. I am generally a fan of black and inappropriate humour - and i'd say this is what this is. This doesn't make me a bad person. What I find MUCH more offensive is people who want to take the moral high ground and call me a sicko. Fine, it's something you might not find amusing - i'm not going to try and force my views on you and convince you it is - and I expect the same the other way round.

so I should apologise for offending you even though you weren't offended?

I would point out that I was offended by you making things up that I'd said, putting your own spin on them and then accusing me of being 'a sicko' for my comments but doubt an apology is in your make up either

I make no apology for what I said as the rational 99% of the forum could understand what was written

I make no apology for my (now deleted) attack on you. I actually think I underreacted

surprised that your sicko post is still up tbh seeing as it caused the deletions

the mark of the man right there

Time out, there are bigger things happening in the world today.

The 'Meltdown alert at Japan reactor' story is still the focus for the media (that's the headline on the BBC site) - even though compared to the damage caused directly by the tsunami the 'fear' is almost totally unfounded.

These photos give an idea of the terrifying damage the tsunami left behind:

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/_51672109_011524081-1.jpg)

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/_51672031_011525502-1.jpg)

The Boston Globe, latest picture update

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/03/japan_earthquake_aftermath.html

Incredible. Did you see those shipping containers?

I still can't get my head round this.

The "clear-up" will eventually become a massive project in itself.

Just wow.

Rather worryingly the sky news nuclear expert has had a huge turn around in the last 2 hours (in light of new info) that rods are exposed and not covered

basically said if they cannot keep rods "covered in water/coolant" that melt down was inevitable (to paraphrase)

this still wouldnt be chernobyl-esque - but worrying nonetheless

They were uncovered previously as well.  There is an 'increased' risk as the MOX reactor core (mixed oxide that uses plutonium as well as uranium) has a lower melting point - but the risk is still VERY small.

Compare (both on the BBC website):

1648: Yukiya Amano, head of the UN's nuclear watchdog, says Fukushima's reactor vessels "have held and radioactive release is limited" despite the effects of the earthquake and tsunami.

1617: BBC News website reader Mark Kemp, who lives near the Fukushima nuclear plant, says: "We have a bit of information but we're not sure how much is being told. It's all fairly worrying."

Properly written summary (ie not by a journalist) of the nuclear situation here:

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/

Cliffs: Bad, but not terribad, risk probably all gone now, actually performed amazingly well considering it was only designed to withstand an 8.2 earthquake. Risk of any part of core escaping to atmosphere = 0.

Totally minor in the context of the wider situation in Japan.

We've got nuclear power plant experts on here too now have we? Fk me this forum has everything  :D

the thing that impressed me most on the link boshi posted before http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm was how much of the nuclear plant survived compared to other areas. I'm assuming that the round white things are pretty important and they look to have got through it fine despite taking one hell of a battering

No one on here is an expert as far as I know, but what we're trying to do is find the best sources of information - as opposed to the sensationalist headlines.

These comments seem to be less worrying than the 'Meltdown' headlines (on the same page interestingly enough) don't you think?

"The explosion at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant sent a plume of smoke into the air but the International Atomic Energy Agency said on Monday that the reactor had not been damaged. The World Health Organisation said there was a minimal public heath risk.

However the power company that runs the nuclear plant said later on Monday that fuel rods at one of its reactors had become fully exposed again, meaning the water being pumped in to cool the reactors is evaporating due to the heat.

Japanese nuclear officials worked to quell concerns and announced the distribution of 230,000 units of stable iodine. Iodine can be used to help protect against thyroid cancer in the case of radioactive exposure.

Yukio Edano, Japan's chief cabinet secretary, said that a large-scale radiation leak was unlikely. Edano said the reactor's inner containment vessel holding the nuclear fuel rods was intact, allaying some fears of the risk to the environment."

(source: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/03/20113144314279315.html)

and from the beeb:

1747: UK energy consultant Prof Ian Fells tells the BBC that widespread power blackouts across Japan pose a bigger problem for the population than radioactive leaks from broken nuclear reactors.

From the Red Cross (http://blogs.redcross.org.uk/international/2011/03/):

I’ve just got off a conference call with the Japan Red Cross, who shared with us some headline figures about the disaster and their response to it. Some of them are staggering. All figures are approximate and will no doubt change quickly, but this is a snapshot of the current situation.

The disaster

-2,000 people confirmed dead

-10,000 more people expected to be confirmed dead

-2,000 people injured

-530,000 people displaced, staying in 2,500 evacuation centres, such as schools and public halls

-24,000 people still completely isolated and cannot be reached

-1.2 million homes without power

-1.4 million homes without water

-4,700 destroyed houses

-50,000 damaged houses

-582 roads cut off

-32 bridges destroyed

Bbc1 7 30pm bang goes the theory, the science of earthquakes and how to limit their effects

Dan, I heard on the news that the Japanese earthquake was 8,000 times stronger than the Christchurch quake.

I've looked in vein for a website that can give me a laymans description of how this can be the case.

Got any links that can enlighten me?

This may help, Keith.

It lists the recent New Zealand quake at 7.1, in the Table near the foot of the page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12735023

Also epicentre of the Christchurch one was right under the city, which is the main reason there was as much damage as there was. They were very, very unlucky.

It's a logarithmic scale.

Excuse me for being thick but if there is a radiation leak how far does it spread and what are the effects?

That's a difficult one to answer, there are so many variables.

This might help :

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/03/japan-megaquake-update.html

From what I remember,  strontium-90 is a dangerous isotope.  It emits beta radiation that if I'm right doesn't penetrate the skin. But if it gets into the food chain, especially milk, it mimicks calcium chemically and if digested can then do damage from within,  causing leukaemia and other cancers.  Strontium is one of the byproducts of fission, and radioactive caesium and iodine are mentioned in that article as others.

If the core goes into a meltdown and there's an explosion that disperses this over a wide area that can affect local populations a lot.  This is like a dirty bomb,  and I think is what basically happened at Chernobyl.  Apparently, the chances of this happening in Japan currently are pretty much zero.

I think with the evacuation zone and other precautions they have implemented,  the immediate dangers are restricted to those working on the plants, and the long term use of the land in close proximity.  Outside that I believe the risk to anyone else is negligible.

That's based on a-level physics and what I have read since then,  so could well be inaccurate.

Average radiation exposure for a person is 3.4mSv per year.  (1 mSv from medicine)  (this is a milli - sievert)
standard x-ray is 0.02mSv (chest x-ray = 0.06mSv)
CT scan 20 mSv
Regulations limit workers in radioactive environments to 50 mSv per year, Aircrew are limited to 20mSv per year.
Radon in Cormwall & Aberdeen can be up to 10 mSv per year. Ramsar in Iran has seen up to 260 mSv per year due to background radiation.
A 10 hour flight is about 0.05 mSv (hence one transatlantic flight is about equal to a chest x-ray)

I am not exactly sure what an mSv is but it appears to be in standard way of measuring these things. (there is also use mrem which is 100 mrem = 1mSv) I am now looking for a source that explains the no's are in Japan.

Sunday readings where 1.5mSv per hour, 0.75msv ph at 2am Monday and 0.02mSv ph later on Monday. So now 3 hours wandering in circles around the plant is equal to about a weekend in Aberdeen.

You're thinking of alpha radiation, but I'm not pedantic. Oh, wait.
Alpha - big (basically a helium nucleus), heavy, lots of damage, can be stopped with a sheet of paper
Beta - light (high-energy electrons), not so much damage, few mm of metal
Gamma - like high energy xrays, need a lot to do damage, few feet of lead

As long as reactor containment doesn't fail (very very very unlikely at this point), the worst that can happen is that some active steam (ie mildly radioactive) is released as they release pressure. If the fuel rods are exposed at this point, this could contain some radioactive isotopes of Caesium and Iodine. Former not too bad, animals can't absorb it, latter can be bad as humans absorb it in trace quantities from food and it accumulates in the Thyroid gland. Hence the iodine tablets being passed around - if people have enough washing around, any of the radioactive version just gets pissed straight out. As long as the wind direction is out to sea (as it was last I heard) anything blown out will eventually come down as rain into the ocean, where it becomes basically harmless.

Yeah,  alpha particles don't penetrate skin - it's all coming back now.

Strontium is still a threat if it gets into the food chain, but I'm sure it's a beta emitter. Probably wrong there as well.

http://www.slate.com/id/2288212/

Nuclear overreactors - wish I'd thought of that.

not looking good at reactor 2

LOL at the BBC Environment correspondent getting quoted on New Scientist - "This opens the possibility of a serious meltdown - where molten, highly radioactive reactor core falls through the floor of the containment vessel and into the ground underneath."

Errr, no, Richard Black, that's just sensationalist nonsense. Even if the core melted, all that would happen is that it will be trickier to clean the mess up later. Melt-through didn't happen at 3 Mile Island, and that was an older design. Very much designed for, even in a 40 year old reactor.

Another hydrogen explosion (reactor 2) isn't exactly brilliant news, but it shouldn't be a massive cause for concern either. Neither of the first two breached the reactor containment, and initial reports is that the 3rd one was smaller than the 2nd one.

First of all I'll say that although I don't know him well, I think Guy is a decent guy :)

But, quite obviously, due to your previous differences with tikay you decided to attack him over his comments due to your previous issues even though I'm pretty sure you knew there wasn't any malice or wrong doing by his comments. I'd go as far as to say if Cos/Vinny/Me or whoever had said it you'd probably have ignored it or agreed with it. If I'm wrong then I apologise but I'm 99% certain I'm not and if I'm right then I think it's pretty terrible that you would use a situation like this just to have a go at someone you don't like. I guess it's not possible for me to post this without it effecting our friendship but it's what I think so there we go.

I also totally disagree that Alex was hounded after his comments. I hope he continues to post on blonde but I don't think anyone was out of order towards him. I remember making a similar rant myself a while ago so I certainly wasn't judging but it isn't right to tell people how they should react to worldwide disasters happening.

Going to just sit back and wait for all the doomsayers and spin doctors to have their say then see what's showing on the Geiger counter in a few days/weeks time.

I think the Japanese pm has resigned himself to a meltdown situation after that press conference? Seemed like he was praising the staff that remain knowing the inevitable?

this

At least the other. Fukushima plant (no. 2) is in "cold shut-down".

Sounds like the radiation in the immediate vicinity of the Fukushima plant (no. 1) is dangerous for those working on it to prevent the situation getting worse.

EU Energy chief has already said Europe should look at what options we have to met the energy needs of Europe without Nuclear energy.

 

Any comments from him on the tens of thousands who die every year in the coal -based electricity supply chain,  and the millions affected by the pollution it causes!?

http://www.nikkei.com/news/headline/article/g=96958A9C93819490E3E7E2E3E28DE3E7E2E1E0E2E3E3E2E2E2E2E2E2?n_cid=TW001

Looks like almost ten thousand of those missing from tsunami-struck Minamisanriku were safely evacuated before it hit the town.

Now there's some good news.

To put this in perspective my best mate now lives in Christchurch and emailed me to say that he had never seen anything like it in his life and it was totally devastated and he was taking his family back to the UK for a while but he didn't see how it would be possible to rebuild in any short time.  8000x stronger is hard to imagine based on this. Incidentally my mates wife works right at the epicentre of that quake and her office building was razed to the ground but she is pregnant and had phoned in sick that day....small mercies huh???

Ray (and others)
Firstly, i like you to and see you as a mate, and no your comments don’t bother me. What it does is give me an opportunity to set a few things straight for many people on this forum.

The Tikay thing
Nearly a year ago I stood up for what I thought was right against Tikay – thats obv not going to make me many friends on blonde. I don’t care, I stood up for what I believed and said things that many others who aren’t prepared to speak out on blonde agreed with fwiw. HOWEVER since then, I have met with Tikay, we agreed to disagree, we shook hands and moved on. I have NO issues with Tikay, I have interacted with him in a positive way on this forum (and at live events) many times since (and fwiw we have had disagreements – usually in private) since too. The drum bangers, i couldn’t care less  about to be quite honest. They just embarrass themselves.

Now for this thread.
I haven’t had a go at Tikay – so where yours and other comments are directed im not too sure (note my initial post is before Tikays). My issue is with Gatso and his attitude to 2 things, firstly how he offends people, and secondly what he sees as loving something/black humour – whatever.
There was no reason he couldn’t have re read his post, realise that he clearly had offended someone, and just say “i think you mis interpreted what I said but im sorry”. Instead he chose another way. Like Keith said, its not what he said, its the way he said it. The fact there was no apology is the mark of the man in a situation like this.

The situation.
I DO NOT FIND HUMOUR (black or otherwise) IN THESE TYPE OF EVENTS.  I don’t love seeing people clinging onto roofs at sea. Etc etc. I don’t laugh when people fall over in the street, I rush to help. I agree with you and others who say you cant put your life on hold, your right you cant. But it doesn’t mean that just because Im not a popular member of a forum that I have to agree with you or others on something . I dont find these situations anything other than disturbing – and it would appear MrAlex felt the same. To suggest that me putting my point across is having a go at Tikay or someone else I don’t like is ludicrous. To suggest I am making a “spectacle” or whatever was said about me is insulting, but trollers are going to troll! Fwiw – i have had disagreements with Cos/Matt and many others on blonde related matters – i guess it usually gets taken to msn, but that is because I have their details. So you are wrong on that point im afraid.

I am allowed to disagree with people. I am not a shrinking violet. Trying to make me the villain in this situation is laughable. I stood up for MrAlex, myself and other people who share the same view who probably wouldn’t post through fear of the reaction that came about like this. All Gatso had to do was apologise to MrAlex for the upset he caused. Clearly he isn’t prepared to do that.

I don’t want this to drag on, but I obv couldn’t not respond. Ray I have no issue with you, and no doubt the haters are gonna keep hating. Life goes on

This is what we should be hearing on the main news channels, not the sensationalist fear-mongering:

"At around 5 PM Japan time today the UK government’s Chief Scientific officer John Beddington spoke to the British Embassy in Tokyo, and to others listening in on the teleconference, and gave us some information about worst case scenarios at the Fukushima plant.
I made the following notes on what was said and found it very reassuring:

1. Worst case scenario (reactor explodes) problems would only affect a 30 km radius around the plant.
2. No health problems expected outside this 30 km area. Today's reports of increased radiation in Tokyo are trivial. The increase in radiation they are reporting is not significant. It would need to be 100s of times that level to cause any problems.
3. An allowable dose would be 100 times the background radiation.
4. They can monitor radiation levels in the area from outside Japan, so there is no cover up going on. Conspiracy theorists stand down.
5. In Chernobyl the top blew off the reactor and then the core caught fire and burnt. This convection pushed all radioactive material higher and higher into the air where it reached 30,000 feet and so the spread was much larger.
Here, a build up of pressure as the radioactive material interacts with the containment floor would cause an explosion that would only reach as high as around 500 meters. This would contain any dangerous material within the 20 to 30 km exclusion zone.
6. If all attempts at cooling the reactors fail, a worst case scenario, then there would be an explosion, but this blast would only throw radioactive material up to 500 meters, and the 30 km containment zone stands.
7. Acceptable levels of radiation are based on the most susceptible members of society (children and pregnant mothers). So right now, the levels outside the 30 km zone are fine for all members of society.
8. No matter how strong the wind, the radioactive material released after an explosion of the core wouldn't make it to Tokyo.

These are just the main points I picked up, a transcript/podcast will apparently be uploaded to the British Embassy's Japan Web site. It was reassuring to hear a calm but informed perspective."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/15/japan-nuclear-crisis-tsunami-live?commentpage=5#comment-9960976

This isn't much fun though:

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/quake-shizuoka-550x310.png)

A large earthquake with the epicentre 10km below Mt Fuji.  Felt strongly in Shizuoka, which isn't far from Tokyo.  The 6 refers to the magnitude on the Japanese scale, not the Richter scale.

http://www.jma.go.jp/jp/quake/00000000053.html

Apologies if I misread it, certainly no issue my side  :cheers:

The 50 or so people who are working on the Fukushima No.1 plant to try and deal with the situation deserve a lot of recognition.

They're the ones in danger from the radiation, and they are on strict rotation shifts to help ensure they aren't exposed to unnecessary levels of radiation.  I really hope this situation is under control as soon as possible.  Can onyl hope that another big quake doesn't hit in the meantime.  Doesn't really bear thinking about.

Much like the people here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscale_fire

Not sure if they've been posted here but The Register had a couple of great pieces about the situation:
Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now! (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/14/fukushiima_analysis/)

And the follow up:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/15/fukushima_update_tuesday/

Good article explaining the dangers from radiation:


http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2011/03/fukushima_crisis_radiation_exp.html

I've just done a little research and found Wind Turbines have killed more people than Chernobyl did.

Very tall people had their heads chopped off.

Chernobyl caused 53 deaths apparently and this report says Wind Turbines have killed 67 people:
http://www.caithnesswindfarms.co.uk/accidents.pdf

This page seems to suggest that Wind has a death rate between 50-100% of coal fired generation:
http://www.wind-works.org/articles/BreathLife.html


Now given the huge number of deaths mining coal (4,746 in China along in 2006) and the relatively few deaths caused by Nuclear Power (63 in total: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents#List_of_accidents_at_nuclear_power_plants for ~15% of the world's leccy: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/electricitygeneration.html)

My conclusion: Nuclear is safer than wind and coal.

I will take the over on 53 deaths caused by Chernobyl.

The conclusion might be slightly different if I used The Chernobyl Union of Ukraine's estimate of 734,000.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/03/post-earthquake_nuclear_crisis

Another good read.

As for the relative dangers to human health/life coal is streets ahead of any other fuel source.

However,  the catastrophic disaster that could potentially occur with nuclear power is a far greater fear to the public.  Probably down to the lack of media focus on the dangers of the coal supply chain,  and the "science fiction" feel to nuclear power accidents.

Downplaying the impact of Chernobyl does any pro nuclear argument a great disservice.

Chernobyl be fucked up.

You don't have to be a Daily Mail reader to buy into the idea that Chernobyl scale incidents cause cancer.

I've spoken to a friend in Ibaraki prefecture and they are both frightened about what's happening in Fukushima (they're pretty much due South of Fukushima), but are more concerned about further quakes and of course tsunamis. He said that they all feel lucky compared to those hit by the tsunami.

It's also started snowing in Sendai,  the last thing they need there is bad weather when they're already short of food supplies and medicines.

All very true.  Chernobyl devastated an area and killed thousands,  although the exact figures can vary according to the source.

But it's also worth noting that Fukushima will not be another Chernobyl.

It doesn't mean nuclear power is safe,  but it doesn't mean it's the work of the devil. 

+1

BBC mentoined tonight that UNESCO are suggesting the figure may reach 4,000.

Its not just the instant deaths that count or those that die from horrible radtion sickenss, it's the cancer suffers, the deformed foetus(es) that also count.

Please dont tell me that a few dozen were affected my Chernobyl

Agreed

It depends who you listen to really, it may reach 4,000 it may be over 750,000, it's not something we can ever really know, I just took wikipedia's word for it...

4,000 would be less than the number of coal miners that died in China in 2006 though, so it's hard to see Nuclear comparing that badly to Coal - and as stated above Wind is little better than Coal...

If you factor in Coal's contribution to global warming then the figures look pretty damning:

A quick google says 150,000 people were killed due to global warming in 2000 (source:http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/102258.shtml wtf?), and that rose to 300,000 in 2009 (http://trueslant.com/jeffmcmahon/2009/05/29/global-warming-death-toll/ another wtf from me).

From another side look at the Bhopal Disaster:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

Estimates of deaths range from 4000-15000, with 500,000+ injuries.

And nothing nuclear in sight.

That's basically what I was trying to say.

a new earthquake has hit japan a 6.0, shaken tokyo a bit and they have evac'd all final staff from nuclear plant as too dangerous , going from bad to worse

Staff have not left the plant.

They were told to stay indoors at the plant, whilst radiation spikes were monitored.

i was going off this

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/VIDEO-All-Workers-Evacuated-From-Fukushima-In-Japan-Nuclear-Plant-After-Surge-In-Radiation/Article/201103315953135?lpos=World_News_First_World_News_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15953135_VIDEO%3A_All_Workers_Evacuated_From_Fukushima_In_Japan_Nuclear_Plant_After_Surge_In_Radiation_

Fair enough, but it's not the only inaccuracy on that page.  I really do despair at some of the reporting of this incident.  The BBC has been no better either.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20110316/k10014717201000.html

The earthquake and tsunami have claimed 3,700 confirmed dead and with the missing they're worried it will rise to 11,000.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia/disaster-japan-march-16-live-blog

"This morning at 8:30AM March 16 JST Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano held a press conference to talk about the smoke billowing from Reactor 3 at Fukushima.

At this press conference, he explained that the radiation levels spiked and that TEPCO staff would be temporarily moved to "a safe region". He probably should have said "location" as Hiroko Tabuchi pointed out to me.

The foreign press misunderstood this and started reporting that the TEPCO staff had evacuated the reactor causing a broad panic. Hiroko Tabuchi of the New York Times  contacted the Nuclear Industry Safety Agency and TEPCO directly to clarify and confirmed that they had not in fact been evacuated, but just moved temporarily to a safer area during the spike.

Jun Seita then reported that as of 11:30AM, NHK was reporting that the staff were back to work.

The frustrating thing was that once this corrosive and sensational misinformation was in the main stream media via the wires, it was very hard to get them to fix it.

Al Jazeera was the first that I saw to edit their news story to reflect that indeed they had not been evacuated.

At the same press conference Edano accidentally said 1000 millisievert instead of 1000 microsieverts causing further confusion in the media."

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/levels.jpg)

"TBS announcers were just talking about the international decision to upgrade the Fukushima incident to a level 6 on the IEIA scale of nuclear incidents. They note that even moving it up the scale does not necessarily mean that there is an increased risk to people’s health at the current time. Also, in their opinion, Chernobyl was far an away a very high level 7, something which Fukushima will not approach."

The situation isn't looking great, and I think the local area around the plant might be a no-go zone for years to come if the situation continues to escalate.  There hasn't been a mention (from what I've seen) of the intention to use a sarcophagus on the plant, once the emergency situation is dealt with.  If the radiation levels in the immediate vicinity of the plant continue to rise, I think this might well be the case.

Read this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/g4fhe/the_follow_up_to_a_promise_operation_restock/

Bearing in mind that most fusion came with the Big Bang, do you think that our Scientists are playing God, and such things should be left to him?

Fusion occurs in the billions of billions of stars in the universe - it's what creates the elements.

Scientists playing god?  Which god would that be?

You took long enough!

Still reading all the comments on that reddit thread. 

You can make some ridiculous arguments like that: Given that God created all life do you think sex, which creates life, should be left to him?

Mind you I think that would make more sense than this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12745899

Bongo, it was reaction time test for Kin.

Oh I know, I just wanted to point out how ridiculous I thought the German decision was.

Either they needed checking before this happened in which case it's a disgrace that they weren't or they didn't and this is an ill thought out reaction.

The Germans and the French have both come out with some very strong statements to the events in Fukushima.  I can't see what's fuelling their reactions (both puns intended).

Areva (French company) build nuclear power stations. The Japanese one is/was GE, I believe. Could just be trash-talking the opposition.

France seems to be pushing hard to have the incident rating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Nuclear_Event_Scale) of the Japan situation increased. I don't understand the mentality of this at all. By any objective viewpoint, it's a 4 that's possibly moved to a 5, depending on what's in the steam that's pouring out of no 3. I've seen several French-sourced comments that says it should be a 6, which is bizarre, as there has been only 1 radiation poisoning case so far, that we know of.

It's a 5 at most from where I can see.  Similar to Three Mile Island.  The effects of the emergency are confined (totally or almost totally) to the immediate vicinity of the plant. 

If the situation deteriorates and something goes 'badly' wrong, then I can see it becoming a 6.  However, I just can't see the situation ever becoming a 7, not unless there's another massive earthquake/tsunami and I hope that it won't be the case.

Here are some graphs showing the radiation levels in various locations in Japan.

http://fleep.com/earthquake/

(the figures are in μSv, and not mSv. 1,000 μSv = 1 mSv)

Again, the data would seem to suggest that those outside the evacuation zone are not under any desperate health risk from killer radiation clouds (if you've seen the sun's coverage of this it would be laughable if it wasn't so bad).

In the immediate vicinity of Fukushima No.1 the levels of radiation are very high (and have increased over the past three days) and I hope those involved in trying to bring the situation under control have taken all the necessary safety precautions (constant shift-changing, protective gear, etc.).

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/hoarding.jpg)

An anti-hoarding pamphlet/poster to highlight to people in the affected areas that some things can go a lot further if shared between many rather than hoarding them.  I think the pictures are pretty self-explanatory?

Reminds me of a book we read at school. I can't remember the name of it though.

12 toilet rolls can wipe a thousand arses?

Yep - that's pretty much it.

1 loaf of bread can build one house and 1 can of gas can make ten acorns.

Almost :D

1 loaf of bread can be shared between a whole family for meals (the loaves of bread in Japan tend to be a lot smaller than here, as they eat less of it).

1 can of gas is enough to make warm meals (rice meals) for 10.  I thin it's a small can of gas rather than a big hefty Calor-gas style thing.

the chinooks trying to get water from the sea to drop on nuclear reactors seems so desperate to me. if thats the current best idea they have - I fear the worst.

It could actually be a worse plan than you first think.  There's a fear that the used fuel rods (in reactor 4?) could start undergoing a fission reaction again.  Water will cool the rods, but water also acts to slow down the neutrons in order to facilitate fission.  Without the water (or other medium) the neutrons travel too quickly to interact with the uranium atoms.  This is why boric acid is a preferred option - it will cool and the boron absorbs the neutrons, helping to prevent the chain reaction.

I think that's the physics anyway, Rex will correct me if I'm wrong ;)

i'm impressed if you randomly know this stuff!  i'm even more worried for them now.

Its just so sad

too sad to comment on

And on top of everything else

its started snowing

This doesn't fill anyone with confidence in TEPCO.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/feature/20110316-866921/news/20110317-OYT1T00291.htm

Bascially, TEPCO has been providing ongoing radiation levels at the plant, but for about 9 hours yesterday these are missing. Apparently, someone at TEPCO accidentally disconnected a communications line between the main office and the nuclear power plant in Tomioka, Fukushima prefecture while performing construction work on the power lines.

;carlocitrone;

This was the time the radiation levels at the plant would have been close to their highest.

http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/03/17/comparing-chernobyl-fukushima/

Interesting article comparing and contrasting Fukushima and Chernobyl.

:)

Nope. This time I can't argue with you. The spent fuel rods in the reactor 4 building it probably the most worrying part, seeing as they are outside the main containment structure. Reports are that the pool is completely empty, which is staggering, these things are 40-50 feet deep. Either damaged from earthquake or they used the water to try and cool the reactors, which would be an odd move, but not impossible. Not enough energy produced to boil off that amount of water in a week. And like you said, now they're a bit stuck. Depending on how they've packed the rods in the pool, and how damaged/old/used they are, a criticality event is not impossible if they throw water back in. Unlikely though, frankly. They're very careful with how they stack these up in the first place to make chain reactions well beyond the bounds of possibility, so it can only happen if, since they've been exposed, they've moved or melted.

A criticality event would be bad. Although probably only have fairly localised effects. I suspect a lot of the site workers are pretty fooked at this point already.

The s*n manages to outdo the bollocks it printed yesterday on its front cover with more bollocks today:

http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/03/17/u-k-newspaper-get-out-of-tokyo-now/

A broken clock, etc.? 

Does that mean I get a pass?

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html

Temperature of the rods doesn't look good.

I really don't know what to make of all this...I understand the media sensationalise everything to create a bigger story, however from speaking to my friends in Japan and reading this thread it seems that the situation is indeed worsening...hour by hour. The situation in Japan is truly awful.

I'm please to see people outside of the 30km evacuation area are now relocating to safer parts of the country...I keep hearing it's not necessary but I think the 'just in case' rule is very applicable here.

xx

I know Kinboshi would like to watch an hour-long Adam Curtis programme about nuclear reactors, with a bit specifically about the concerns in 1964 about the safety of the type of reactor now cooking away at Gas Mark 4 in Japan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/03/a_is_for_atom.html

:)up

I've been speaking to friends who live in Ibaraki prefecture (where I lived for two years), that is directly South of Fukushima prefecture - and they are fairly relaxed about the radiation and the whole situation at the Fukushima plant.  They are relieved that it wasn't the Tokai plant that is having these issues (which is about 20 miles from where they live and so would be close to any exclusion zone if the same things were happening there), and feel mightily relieved that they escaped the worst of the earthquake and tsunami.

They are certainly not thinking about relocating to anywhere else in the country, and there isn't any reason why they should either.

Daily Hate Mail getting it closer to the mark than many others?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1367289/Japan-truly-disaster-biblical-scale-right-worry-nuclear-angle.html

WTF?

Yesterday they were saying we're on the verge of a nuclear apocolypse.

Fantastic news!!!!

Thanks for the continuing updates.

xx

Two fairly large earthquakes north of Tokyo ( Ibaraki & Tochigi?).  Epicentres inland, so no tsunami warnings thankfully.

In other news,  the World Heath Organisation has said that there is no danger to those outside the 30km zone from the radiation. I'll dig out a link for that.

Reports of milk and spinach close to the Fukushima plant having high levels of radiation, so they won't be used. They did say that the levels wouldn't actually cause any more harm than a CT scan,  but that the levels were high enough to remove them from sale to the public.

I look forward to watching the forthcoming battle between Godzilla and Glow in the Dark Popeye.

http://www.cbryanjones.com/journal/2011/3/19/japan-radiation-levels-in-english.html

Radiation levels in Japan, and comparisons with otherother sources of radiation.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/18/fukushima_friday/

A journalist apologises for the media hysteria surrounding the nuclear power stations in Japan.

Just how dangerous is Nuclear power relative to other sources of electricity?

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-source.html (http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-source.html)

Cliff notes:

These are deaths per Terawatt hour.

Coal – world average               161 (26% of world energy, 50% of electricity)
Coal – China                       278
Coal – USA                         15
Oil                                36  (36% of world energy)
Natural Gas                         4  (21% of world energy)
Biofuel/Biomass                    12
Peat                               12
Solar (rooftop)                     0.44 (less than 0.1% of world energy)
Wind                                0.15 (less than 1% of world energy)
Hydro                               0.10 (europe death rate, 2.2% of world energy)
Hydro - world including Banqiao)    1.4 (about 2500 TWh/yr and 171,000 Banqiao dead)
Nuclear                             0.04 (5.9% of world energy)

variance

Who the hell is dying from solar energy?

Are they counting guys who fall off the roofs of houses while installing the panels?

It's a very good point. It's like winning the main event, very rare and unlikely, but massive when it happens.

It's very hard to attribute deaths to nuclear power in any case, as witnessed by the guesses from various sources on Chernobyl. That's quoted at somewhere between 36 and 300,000.


Reading the article, yes, it sounds like that's exactly what they're counting!

18,000 dead and the official figure is set to rise.

:(

"What the Japanese people have suffered already is bad enough, but now natural disaster has collided with man made hazard. If they can't cool the reactors at Fukushima, they face full scale nuclear meltdown. The worst may still be to come.

...

I'm not a nuclear scientist, I'm a fashion designer. I don't pretend to be an expert but as a human being and global citizen I'm terrified for the future of this planet for our children, in fact for all life on earth, if we continue on this nuclear path."

Katherine Hamnett on this week's 'This Week'

If all your big pairs have held up recently and you require some tilting, you can catch it on the i-player for a few more days. Starts about 7 minutes in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/zn1cm/

;frustrated;

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/03/25-other-energy-disasters-from-the-last-year/72814/

What sort of warning would they have had?

Is it litetrally just hours?

Stumbled upon a fresh bunch of photographs on "Time Magazine", many of which I'd not seen before.

As time passes since the event, looking back, it seems less & less probable, more & more improbable, almost like a dream.

The international news Media have moved on, to Libya, probably no bad thing.

Can you imagine the huge list of momentous decisions the Japanese Cabinet have to face daily, dozens of decisions any one of which would be a major thing in itself.

I can't help but increasingly admire the stoicism of everyone out there, the locals, the communities, the people, the Country, in the face of such overwhelming tragedy.

It gets worse the more time passes, or it seems to.

Anyway, here's the photos I came upon.......(there are 78 of them)

PS - pardon the snappy link. See "Most Popular", right hand side.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/53375259.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26c%3DIWSAsset%26k%3D2%26d%3DE41C9FE5C4AA0A14B5769D13BE66928D23DDDA563F4EB7BC4FAB8288309FB2B5B01E70F2B3269972&imgrefurl=http://www.life.com/image/53375259&usg=__1zNIIReWk4Fkk4i1r4gp4Pwgwp0=&h=594&w=497&sz=62&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&itbs=1&tbnid=xf9WN50rTZhCeM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dspringtime%2Bin%2BEngland%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DG%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=AbSJTd6kCcuXhQeArajFDQ

Amazing pics of how Japan has rebuilt a road that was destroyed by the earthquate.

http://www.businessinsider.com/incredible-before-and-after-photos-show-how-fast-japan-is-rebuilding-2011-3 (http://www.businessinsider.com/incredible-before-and-after-photos-show-how-fast-japan-is-rebuilding-2011-3)

I'm not being disparaging, but that road is quite clearing "being repaired", the photo is just taken from further back

obv they are doing a great job it getting up and running so quickly, but bad/sensational media reporting get on my tits

who cares if they have not managed to finish it in 72 hours in the UK we would have a 3 year planning enquiry first

Good docu

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/japans-tsunami-how-it-happened/4od#3175951

Amazing stuff.  Frightening.

Pretty much thiis.

Incredible

Despite the best positive non-sensationalism that this thread has been...in hindsite all of the "it's not bad, it's not gonna get worse, the media are feckers" descriptions have actually been sadly inapt taking into consideration the actual situation regarding transference of airborne radiation...

Please let my friends be okay...right now i don't give a flying about the rest of this thread....

page three - onwards of this thread was just as wrong as the BBC

The threat of nuclear exposure is wide and vast...Apologies to all who voiced valid concerns earlier, for me my friends HAVE moved away - despite being 50k outside force zero...

Candles for all water consumers in Tokyo!!!

xx

Eh?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/25/fukushima_scaremongering_debunk/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12860842

The media are still scaremongering about it. Radiation levels are still nowhere near causing any health effects. It's still causing massive distraction from the devastation caused by the Tsunami. I don't see what's changed? Radiation levels in the sea (measured 300m downwind of the reactors, mind) are above "safe" levels. And this is a surprise, apparently. Anyone likely to be drinking sea water 300m from a nuclear reactor under normal circumstances?

You can ingest more radiation by smoking a cigarette (http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/sources/tobacco.html) than you would drinking Tokyo tap water.

Interesting read, thankyou Rex

xx

Even the fact that I'm getting angry at the way this has been reported makes me angry. Because I should have learned to expect nothing less from the media at some point in the 38 years of my life :).

Accurate or not my friends have left...even if it is all tosh, their kiddies won't be drinking any sort of mildly contaminated tap water and for that i'm thankfull!!

38...snap ;)

xx

The scariest thing is they expect something bigger in future and this may have sped up the process.

Your friends left where,  and how does this demonstrate that the situation has dramatically worsened? There are people in America taking iodine pills because of the situation in Fukushima - they're just idiots, it doesn't mean they're in danger.

I have friends who live in Ibaraki prefecture, and they haven't left (because that's where they're from and live and it isn't dangerous for them to stay there.

I really don't understand your argument. It's like saying if people go to church that makes god real.

I was disappointed with that sensationalist bit at the end.  Pure speculation,  and this quake could have just as easily reduced some pressure between the plates that meet near Tokyo,  therefore reducing the possibility of a massive tokai quake.

Epic logic/journalistic fail, or am I missing something??

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/03/28/officials-radiation-from-japan-reaches-pennsylvania-poses-no-health-risks/

Not looking good for reactor 2:

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/29/japan-lost-race-save-nuclear-reactor

Reading the IAEA report, it looks like the only immediate concern is for the local area, as before. 

In the shock news story of the day:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12903725

Really?  I thought they'd just get the decorators in, tidy the place up a bit and switch them back on... ::)

Why do some places have the word 'prefecture' after them bosh?

Prefecture is the equivalent of 'County' in the UK.  So, Fukushima-ken = Fukushima Prefecture, whereas Fukushima-shi = Fukushima City.  Similar to Nottinghamshire and Nottingham.

They're expecting the official dead/missing from the earthquake and tsunami to be about 30,000.

:(

Tsunami alert has been issued after 7.4-magnitude earthquake strikes off Japan's northeastern coast.

2m tsunami expected in the areas already devastated any moment now :(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13289877

Still a lot of work to do, but let's hope it's all positive news from now on.

Looks like the official death toll for the earthquake and tsunami is going to be about 25,000.  With many thousands swept out into the Pacific I wonder when the missing will be moved into the other column.

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/442974284.png)

Basically 20,000 quakes in the Tohoku region stronger than M3 (on the scale the Japanese use for earthquakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Meteorological_Agency_seismic_intensity_scale)) in 2011, compared to 1,101 in the whole of 2010.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17675399

Big earthquake in Indonesia, and a tsunami warning for the area.

:(

my friend in sumatra had her house shaken but thankfully she's well inland. local news reporting it to be not as big as the 2004 quake but still not looking good for the aceh area

Next to no chance of a Tsunami at least

latest fb status from my friend who lives there

and


(this is from just before the last update, 'another one' is referring to another quake)

looks like local reports were exaggerated somewhat and they got away pretty lightly

Strike 1 for the international news agencies and science!

http://www.nature.com/news/fukushima-s-doses-tallied-1.10686