blonde poker forum

GG Pleno, you had another good run.

He was quoted today as saying "i havnt done fk all though"

[18:01:13] Patrick Leonard: post this pls?

"I messages three people via skype. One, my friend Alex Goulder (about a rakeback deal that we had spoke about already in person, on skype and on facebook, he wasnt on skype at the time.. NOT SPAM? Redarmi, to help me out with something and he gave me skype emails etc.. NOT SPAM, and Dubai who I asked to help me out with something - NOT SPAM. Barry Carter messages me 5/6 times, but surely this isn't spam?! we were sending messages back about a mutual beneficial thing that had nothing to do with blonde poker in any form.

I wasn't even aware the moderators read our private messages, goodness knows what they read, i thought it was somewhere I would be able to send what I want to who I want, a free speech or whatever but now that they are sneakily reading my PM's I find it ridiculous!
Absolute joke decision to ban me and the mods have almost definitely got it in for me.
Also
NO EXPLANATION
sigh

Again?

Mods cannot and do not read PMs

Pleno was emailed earlier this afternoon to his hotmail account. If this needs to be resent, then someone can let us know

sigh

gg

What's happened?

Wow and no coroline in sight!

Come on you might as well tell us we will find out eventually!

Explanation?

Or are we going to let the rumour mill churn for a few days/weeks, like what usually happens, until the mods end up posting an explanation anyway......

He has been banned for 28 days, so far, (following an earlier ban for a shorter period for another issue) for and I quote

"covertly using the PM service for your own commercial ends" (having received prior warnings advising him not to do this)


I am busy updating an event so won't be commenting further, and I would imagine this will be the last mod comment on the subject.

Who's been getting spammed by THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS(tm)?  I feel left out :(

Lol, same here.

What about this Tighty http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=52784.0 ? Are they paying ?

Seems a rather hard thing to prove considering mods cannot read private messages, unless he's accidently sent a mod something.  Or he could've been ratted out I suppose...

Shame, because he's pretty active in posting hands for discussion.

they have spoken to blonde about a deal in the intrest of both parties

spot on pokerfan.....was gonna say the same for people looking to be stacked wanting to be pm'd but this is an even better example. anyone wanna buy a suzukii gsxr 750. need to sell to insure the porsche

seems redic to me -  mean if he is randomly punting to everyone then fair enough - but if people have requested the info it seem silly

people always say pm me for rb deals etc

What rb deal can u get guy?

seems silly considering he contributes to the forum and isn't just a random trying to spam

and its poker stuff for poker players on a poker forum.....

well i usually go through P Leno who gets sick deals on loads of sites, just depends on your volume - got skype? :P

who dobbed him in?

I have my suspicions....

pm me  - then again msn probs best

Yeh I asked him for that rb deal info, and also someone else on blonde, both convos were similar and it was not spam at all.

The mods, once again, DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO PMs

The issue is not related to cambridgealex or any of the PM conversations mentioned in this thread.

Sorry tighty was just saying- didn't want him to be banned cos of any misunderstanding to do with me.

Blonde exists and manages to operate through sponsorship deals.

Someone who abuses his membership and is warned but continues to abuse the benefits of blonde membership for commercial gain has to be sanctioned (in this case a suspension of forum rights) otherwise why should forum sponsors bother to pay good money to promote their business?

The suspension did not come out of the blue. I'm sure you can give the mods team some credit there?

Why don't mods just post the reasons for people getting banned as soon as a person is banned?  Cryptic posts with no real information of the actual crime committed just encourage conspiracy theories and threads that don't die until eventually the facts come out in the end anyway.

We've posted the reason, there is no need for any conspiracy beyond that.

The vast majority of the time bans are not publicised, and not even noticed. The vast majority of the mods work behind the scenes goes unnoticed, in fact, which is good.

spammed a mod?
   
   
Re: Diary of an Internet Policeman
« Reply #3266 on: Today at 10:47:47 AM »
   
Hey Mr Greekstein,

Do you know anybody who played high volume on betfair poker in the last 1-5 years? Can you put in touch please.

Anybody reading, who falls in this category please get in touch too.
   Logged
http://twitter.com/4bet2induce

follow me yo
RED-DOG
International Lover World Wide Playboy
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21526



View Profile WWW
   
   
Re: Diary of an Internet Policeman
« Reply #3267 on: Today at 10:50:27 AM »
   
Quote from: pleno1 on Today at 10:47:47 AM
Hey Mr Greekstein,

Do you know anybody who played high volume on betfair poker in the last 1-5 years? Can you put in touch please.

Anybody reading, who falls in this category please get in touch too.

I did. What can I help you with?
   Logged
Triple range, the thinking man's merge.
pleno1
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4528



View Profile
   
   
Re: Diary of an Internet Policeman
« Reply #3268 on: Today at 10:54:12 AM »
   
PM'd.

Think the title and generally feeling behind this thread is pretty out of order fwiw, regardless of what he did.

FWIW Pleno just asked me if I could do him a favour which I was happy to do so I wasn't spammed and have no complaints.

I might be wrong but maybe pleno didn't really realise he couldn't use his contacts on blonde for his own commercial benefit. Several people do.

I had an affiliate from before I was with encore and a few blondes pm'd me for deals and continue to do so. Its only a small number because I don't advertise it but its very possible pads didn't know he was really doing anything wrong. Several blondes are affiliated with different sites and businesses which are used by other blondes and quietly done using the forum.

Atm he is an excellent contributor to pha in particular but also to the forum overrall.

My post doesn't really have much of a purpose other than to say whatever he did was prob an oversight on his part, with ofc no malice and it would be good to see his ban shortened.

P.s.

The best in the business

I get confused about the nature of these bans and I also don't feel they are explained properly to other members. As a member I don't really know how to interpret the explanation given and as such could fall foul of this rule unwittingly myself. There is a sky banner to the right of this page inviting members to play sky poker, and as far as I am aware sky are blonde's commercial partner. Yet on this same page we can click a member's sig and get invited to play on another poker site. Every member who views this page can click that link and get an invitation to play a rival site. That sig appears in almost every thread multiple times. In comparison Pleno sent a couple of private pm's. I don't know why one is commercially detrimental to blonde and one is not. Not having a pop at anyone btw I just genuinely don't understand.

Don't worry, most people who are banned receive at least one warning, and when they continue to do what they're doing regardless then a suspension is imposed. 

That is good to know. It doesn't address my confusion over what is commercially detrimental to blonde thou.

is me having a link to the firm in my sig against the rules?

We try to enforce no commercial links in sig lines, no advertisement or promotion of competitor rakeback deals on the forum, no requests from members to "PM me for a good deal" etc etc

Inevitably, some slip through as its a busy, broad forum and resources to enforce the above can be limited depending on the workload of the mods in their day to day lives

It's all about maximising the value of the sponsorship of the site to its commercial partner. At the same time I and colleagues are busy developing new commercial relationships with future potential partners, perhaps, or those who might be prepared to fund us in some current areas (the firm poker and live updates was one example mentioned earlier in the thread)

If there is a problem, members are contacted and asked to remove a sig line or told why a post has been removed. I'd guess we do 10-15 of these a week.

Is this the best operating model? Possibly not. It's a function though of how the forum was set up at outset (free to view and post by members, no subscription, no compulsion to support the forum) and the pressures we had and the risks of not continuing after IPoker brought us to our knees, that we went with an exclusive partner to provide some stability

If it wasn't for the fact that I am developing a partnership with Aaron and Mark for some live updates, yes. For example they are doing stuff with us for GUKPT Walsall which will enable a GUKPT Walsall update to appear on blonde.

Not a criticism of you, per se, but the many members who put other poker concerns in their sig lines without asking blonde first is a bit cheeky really (at best) and rude (at worst)

That said, its the case I think that we haven't made it enough and certainly it will appear inconsistent to a member who is unaware of what relationships are developing behind the secenes. Which is one of Mantis' points.

Greekstein keeps pm'ing me about rb, as the mods can't read PMs could you take my word for it and give him a 28 day ban.

Ever since he quit work he has been an absolute pain!!

Do we have someone to second this?

lol go do one

as if i'd pm anyone. I'd respond when people ask.

Abusing a mod as well.... ;)

PM pls

Tighty/mods

(can't quote on phone), but in respect to tightys long explanation!

I have been a very active member here for 2 1/2 years and had no idea of your "rules". I am not having a pop, but it quite simply has to be the least enforced rule on here! In particular with the pm me for rake back rule, I see this all the time and certainly didn't know it was against the rules! There has been no mention of this before!

Without wanting to be too pointed, poker encore have been mentioned more on this site in 12 months than any other. I see this as very positive for them, and think it shows their hard work and dedication to marketing. I have never once thought it detracted from blondes sponsors, and just absorbed the info as someone with an interest in poker! But it is fair to say this clouds your "rules". Infact it kind of makes an interesting question of what can and cannot be posted on the Internet poker boards, for example, when MC posts about poker stars updates etc!

I think this rule needs alot of work, as it is clearly the cause of some confusion.

Please note this post has nothing to do with pleno, I don't know him!

Yup, we've had a lot of discussions with Poker Encore too, relations are good.

It's a challenge. On the one hand we have an open forum, one of the biggest and busiest around in a European context and it would be a far worse forum, imo, if members could not post about a Stars reload bonus or a scoop series etc etc. That's interesting information for the members and has to continue.

On the other hand we have a sponsorship arrangement without which many aspects of the forum would not be able to continue, if not the whole forum

What we try to draw the line at is members overtly seeking to spam members or tout for business without the forum that they use for doing that seeing any benefit from that

Is it enforced as well as it should? probably not. Why? time and resources.

If in doubt, members should ask the mods for guidance. We're far more likely to look favourably on something that appears on the forum if a view or permission has been sought first, rather than someone sticking a link up that promotes$ their own personal arrangement with a n other online poker room

would you like me to remove my sig tighty?

I agree, most in thread/pm advertising is done to help poker players with poker which Im sure is supposed to be a major function of the forum in the first place.  Links etc in sigs or talking about it in posts are nowhere near as visible as a big blue banner on every page so I dont think it detracts from the main sponsors at all.

As for Pleno, I doubt he is getting rich from this, seems genuinely like he just wants to help out people on the forum.

ok, I did ask Aaron before I put it up. i get the point. ofc id snap take it off if you asked.

Preferably.

We did post up Karl's press release announcing your good news as it was "newsworthy" given your presence on here and the many friendships you have on here, only right that people should know and be able to share in your news. You also don't seek to take advantage by promoting Encore on the forum. Of course you would be expected to respond to private queries, 

So, as a general rule of thumb, we should all be working on the principle that if there is an element of personal gain, it will be frowned upon, whereas as if it is in the wider community spirit then this is acceptable?

Therefore, for example if P Leno started a thread saying he is playign on xyz poker, its good fun, full on donks and he is getting outstanding rb, this would be ok? Providing he didnt keep bumping it himself?

But if he posts on threads continually saying that he can get rb this is unacceptable?

Are the above fair guidelines?

The whole irony here of course is that he is banned for spamming rb deals and our main site sponsor dont do rake back, so there is minimal conflcit at all.

define that please

its a case of the commercial aspect of blonde benefiting the users, so if the users are damaging the commercial side without providing a forum wide benefit its going to damage the entire forum.

i sympathize with task of policing it, because most of the infringements are not deliberate i would imagine.

keep up the good work!

How can you back him up now, when you're the one that started this thread, basically making fun of his banning ?

Poking fun at him being banned doesnt mean I agree with it

I am not sure what needs defining?

Cos doesn't post a lot saying "Encore are great, PM me for a good deal etc"

He knows the score, he doesn't try to take advantage

I guess we differ in our definition of promoting then

its ok, im getting the gist, as I am sure everyone else is

It's cos P Leno wasn't in the clique!!

The problem with a grey area like this is that it can be suggested rules are enforced more vigorously for different people. I am not suggesting that is the case btw, but can see why it would be suggested. If the sig of a popular member promoting another site appears mutiple times each day then that is constant endorsement. So the statement that such a member doesn't post a lot saying site x is great is like saying Sebastian Vettel doesn't talk about Red Bull a lot when he's driving around Imola. I can see how the modding task is a rather difficult one here.

I'm busy all afternoon so just to give you the background


When blonde started there was a pretty half hearted attempt to set up a series of affiliate deals with major rooms, alongside an "open" forum where any member can post about any event on any room, and for live cardrooms too

A decision was then made to open a card-room on tribeca. All good in 2006-early 08. Kev and I on board from mid 06 or so. No affiliate effort at all with other rooms

Tribeca is bought by IPoker and closed. Business transfers to IPoker under a cage

cage is bought by Aqua

Severe cardroom problems 09-10, I Poker network policies and the mix of our online business

cardroom closes

do we continue?

cannot do widescale affiliate deals as we have a mature userbase (you all have cardroom accounts in all established rooms) and growth of that userbase from new members was low (so affiliate sign ups will be low)

so sponsorships, then. We found out in 06-08 that they work best on here when they are exclusive. Messages get mixed when individual boards are sponsored

So DTD. All good, promote it well, but can't get anyone to play on the online side

Sky Poker.

We are where we are. We don't have the capital to launch another skin. We don't have a member base that provides much upside from existing/dormant affiliate relationships. We are growing strongly again, though.

So we have an exclusive sponsorship

Alongside this we have an open forum

I (sponsorship) and mods team (forum) have to manage the two alongside each other, and sometimes what is required for each conflicts

We are not naive enough to think that members won't speak to each other privately about the marketplace and what is on offer

What I or the team do not appreciate is when this is conducted publically, as it is most often is conducted by individuals who do not contribute to the success of blonde by playing with our sponsors, and often by those who do not seek permission first

Alongside all this I am developing a series of relationships with potential future sponsors, advertisers etc and trying to fund live updates without asking members for donations etc etc

Ultimately my aim, alongside my personal motivations both financial (it is part of my income) and because I live and breathe blonde, is to secure a return for Messrs Dempsey and Kendall without whom the site would not exist.

The forum, its members, their posts and the key role of the mods is an essential element in that

I think that seeing as how the updates are largely being funded by members donations and that brings in a huge volume of your visitors these kind of bans are just redic.

We had the DTD links up but was a horrid site to play on, now we have the sky ones up but the site isnt for all. If people aint openly spamming I cant see the harm.

I agree. I have tried to explain why we are where we are

Third party sites should not be promoted in sig lines.

I have also explained why sometimes the rules are not enforced.

and to be blunt that doesnt work - because it causes confusion as there is never anything explicit said

If an individual is asked not to openly spam, and continues, then it becomes a problem

Funding live updates from members donations is not and cannot be a long term strategy.

Unless they become fundable they will at some stage stop, no matter the goodwill of all those who donate.

Seeing open spam from members who have not asked permission or sought advertising rates is a slap in the face for the forum which has to cover its costs, minimum, to exist.

Does such spam affect the likelihood of people playing with our sponsors? Possibly not, but the principle is important not least to our sponsors who look at the forum threads constantly and want value for money 

It IS explicitly said

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=25383.0

Links

Members are no doubt all too aware of the numerous incidences of blatant spam which take up a significant amount of our time to deal with.  Many of you also take the trouble to report these posts to us, for which we are grateful.

However, in addition to this there are many posts made which include links to external websites of various types, including other poker fora, blogs, and other poker and non-poker related sites.

Generally, we allow links to other poker fora such as 2+2, as these are usually made to draw attention to a topic of interest or to provide reference or guidance to another member.  With regard to other site links, our decision to allow or remove a link is largely based on whether the linked site is seeking to gain commercially from the link being there.  This includes, but is not restricted to, affiliate sites and sites which compete with blonde and/or its paying sponsors.  This policy is also intended to protect blonde members, particularly those new to poker, from innocently activating affiliated links without their knowledge.

We also ask that members do not copy content directly from other websites in their posts without proper accreditation being given to the source.


what needs to explicitly happen is that it is enforced better, I think

you misunderstand

you cannot be explicit about not enforcing rules - thats the point im making

Like i said in MY op, i couldnt care less about P Leno, but I can easily see how people can fall foul of rules when they arent rules

Tighty has made his point. Sure Pleno was given fair warning that this might happen

they are guidelines. As with a lot of mod issues, some subjectivity comes into play..we've seen this from examples in this thread too

Anyway, its a good debate into an insight into the world of the forum, and this particularly tricky area.

[X] would hate the stress tighty has/gets.
[X] have to support him/site
[X] seems petty banning anyone given freedom of speech

thank you for the support

As to bans, they are never placed lightly, often warnings are given first and the mods often bend over backwards to avoid them. The time we spend.......

[ ] Jason uses checkboxes appropriately

get boshi to ring guy and chat it through.

would be the most tilting convo ever

for the nth time - i couldnt care less about the banning, if he was warned several times then so be it, but there does seem to be a "make it up as we go along" line in here

stop picking on me. add me on facebook and get an avatar with a clean shave. no wait a minute prob have more embarrasing photos on their. feel free to upload from the hendon mob tho. but remember to blurr out any sponsors. would hate either of us to get banned

there isn't. The guidelines have been in place for several years. Posted as a tab on the forum header boxes too.

You would have thought that most would assume the same.  Seems some assume that the mods try to be as unreasonable as possible and enjoy suspending members and the inevitable fall out on threads like this.

I think ur unreasonable sometimes dan. I don't often think tighty is at all.

[   ] there isnt

lol just lol.

who are the mods on here. in my day they rode round on lambrettas. seems to me the only thing they are riding these days are high horses

Jason there is absolutely no need for that.

Mods are taking the time to explain and you want to have a dig?

I expected better of you.

sorry tight just showed my support for you in previuos post then go and post that....forgot to put a smiley face to show i was only joking. everyone is getting serious while i am having a laugh. any chance of listing things you can get banned for so i can pick a couple out ;)

Dunno if anyone caught the webcast by PLeno aka The Best in the Business(tm) but here is a transcript sponsored by Boba Fett Poker: pm for rb deals*

*Just kidding, obv doesnt exist.  Dont pm me

In all seriousness, he asked me to post the following, right of reply etc

""Sigh, its a shame that I have had to install a VPN just so I can view Blonde.  A forum that I view for hours everyday and that I try to add input too in every area possible. Of course I am not trying to benefit from my own commercial gains or whatever bullshit you wrote. I get X% deal, I give the whole X% to the player and keep 0% for myself, I do it for friends and people that I want to do well..

I have no idea who has sent this email saying that I have been pestering them or whater, if it was Red Dog, then it is absilutely ridiculous, of course I'm not trying to shift a live player who plays 1 table online a rakeback deal to benefit myself. As for anybody else? It just really doens't make sense, I genuinely dont think I have offered anybody else a deal and if I have it would have been to give them 100% of my cut so that they could benefit and ive seen them posting around the forum requesting such deals. Why the hell would they "rat on me" just confuses me.

The messages I sent to redarmi/dubai were nothing to do with rakeback (like redarmi confirmed in the thread) everybody knows the mods have it in for me, I was a ***** for 2 weeks along acting similarily to Caroline, I got banned and she did updates for the forum. Brilliant democracy. I don't even want to come back to your forum. I have tried helping lots of people, I have done updates for you for very little money (that people said I did well at) I have brought traffic to your forum and I make post after post on PHA, I am a super moderator on another forum and i post dozens of posts a day helping people out. I am appreciat ed there and if I WAS HALF AS APPRECIATED here then I could really be a positive member for you. You can stick your conspiracy/cliquey forum up your arse and I gaurantee I'll not come running back to reinstate my membership.

1 month ban? Absolutely fucking ridiculous.

Also, whenever anybody posts about rakeback etc, we get 3/4/5 people posting reguarly in the threads/PM'n the people and offering/giving them deals. People openly talk about it too, I very very much doubt that they ever get reprimanded/warned/1 month banned. "

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=25383.0

I'm not trying to shift a live player who plays 1 table online a rakeback deal to benefit myself
tom is upto 4 now tho

Tighty can you just clear up exactly why Pleno was banned?

I don't know whether we get any say in any of this, but I vote his ban gets removed. It would be a big loss to the forum if he didn't come back.

On a sidenote about member bans.  I saw it work quite well on another forum where they had a sub-forum specifically for banned members where a thread was started by a mod saying who was banned and why and the banned member, and other people, could make a case for the defense.  Obviously it would also need rules, an amount of time for a thread to be posted on, what can and cant be posted in these threads, setting up the access rights correctly etc.

It didnt get too out of hand as anything that wasnt directly related to the discussion was insta deleted and if it got out of hand then the thread locked.  It would improve communication between mods and members on who is banned and why, stopping all the "why is this person banned" threads and posts, give the banned member right of reply instead of them posting through other people, which has happened in several cases.

not sure that can be denied and seems like the most relevant of his points. Also super lol if the fact he doesnt benefit is true!

I agree with Alex - as much as we had our differences P Leno was a good solid poster around blonde, clealry loves poker, and on the whole seemed like he wanted to help members. Ban seems top heavy to me

You are posting with only minimal knowledge of what the mods do in these cases guys, there can be 10-15 instances a week of posts being removed, PMs sent, advice given. You don't see the removed posts, the PMs sent, the advice given...

 

Just for the record, I have never said that Pleno offered me anything, tried to get me to do anything, or made any improper suggestions to me.

Also for the record, I'm very disappointed that no one trusts the mods to make fair decisions.

The decision to suspend someone's account is never, ever taken lightly, it's never done without warning, (Often several warnings) and never by any one mod.

We don't want to ban anyone. Honest.
 

 

if anyone wants to set the line on PLENO's next post i'll take the under on 29 days

you can see why everyone is a bit confused and asking all these questions. pleno has written above everything that he can think of as to why he's been banned.

i can the problem if either

-something is missing  - he's done something else to warrant the ban
-he's lied about something in that explanation
-something within the explanation is against the rules

could you clarify please?

phatomch was banned without warning or even a email stating why he was, he had to contact kev through facebook to find out why

fk me, un-ban him and chill the fk out.

Cliffs: He brings traffic to forum but the mods hate him. He does not want to come back and you can fuk yourself.


There is life away from forums :)

are you a moderator tom? might be asking the obvious but it also says playboy

I think the thread has gone a bit overboard, but I can see both sides of the fence, I know if i had been banned for something i didn't do/unknowingly did, i would be annoyed,  but in fairness 28 days is nothing in the grand scheme of things. (about the number of days i am drunk per month) Don't think the mods should have to explain themselves to every person who wants to get involved either.

Obviously there are terms and conditions to forums etc, but who really reads them??  hope not reading them isn't actually a forum rule else i could face the boot.

It's quite hard to prove either way.

Anyways, cant we get a vote thingy on the thread? Even if nothing comes of it, everyone loves a good vote. Diplomacy FTW.

1/3 of my lifes heros itt!

Please tell me you 3 have an afternoon planned in the oak beer garden with 15 pints and a little bit of "fun" in the sun

the reason given was posted in this thread


on page 1

"He has been banned for 28 days, so far, (following an earlier ban for a shorter period for another issue) for and I quote

"covertly using the PM service for your own commercial ends" (having received prior warnings advising him not to do this)


I think everyone is going round in circles now, several mods have spent time explaining the policies

specifics are for private contact with the member, should he so choose.

Given his explanation, you don't think it's a bit of a misunderstanding?

Quite possibly, I don't know. I'm not conducting that debate on here though. He was emailed, he can reply to that email if he chooses.

I understand that he's cross but asking for his note elsewhere to be posted on here using some of the inflammatory language it does doesn't really help. 

I agree, it doesn't help his cause to be swearing etc. Although, maybe like he says, he doesn't care whether or not he's reinstated in which case, there's no point us fighting his corner.

How can you ban someone for using PM's when you claim you cannot read them? 

wish we did, alas i am utterly hangin today.

We cannot read them, for the 43rd time. You asked the same yesterday, it was answered yesterday.