Title: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 09:54:16 PM i am struggling when i should be value betting and when i should be checking to allow the oppo to bet
every time i try to value bet they are folding everytime i check they are checking behind with hands they would of called a value bet anyone help? Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: mondatoo on June 06, 2011, 09:58:35 PM Do the opposite to what you are doing.
Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 10:01:59 PM Do the opposite to what you are doing. i am trying man its doing my head in i am 2/189 in a 5$ comp on stars and i would be sitting with trble my stack if v bets were called and they stoped checking behind with hands i am hoping they bet with i am getting them to put 60% of there chips into a pot before river but just cant get the rest of there staacks Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Solaris on June 06, 2011, 10:06:26 PM I'm bored whilst playing so I thought I'd rail you and see how you're doing. Here's one example of a hand I feel you misplayed.
PokerStars Game #63032674617: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (800/1600) - 2011/06/06 21:44:02 WET [2011/06/06 16:44:02 ET] Table '424010421 119' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: Cr@cker717 (84857 in chips) Seat 2: pestaras85 (25701 in chips) Seat 3: Vindel (68378 in chips) Seat 4: getaraise (42875 in chips) Seat 5: stilli rom (16623 in chips) Seat 6: Lehmo81 (64862 in chips) Seat 7: jam3s1nlove (56311 in chips) Seat 8: Ironside (60055 in chips) Seat 9: PokerCity00 (31866 in chips) Cr@cker717: posts the ante 150 pestaras85: posts the ante 150 Vindel: posts the ante 150 getaraise: posts the ante 150 stilli rom: posts the ante 150 Lehmo81: posts the ante 150 jam3s1nlove: posts the ante 150 Ironside: posts the ante 150 PokerCity00: posts the ante 150 stilli rom: posts small blind 800 Lehmo81: posts big blind 1600 *** HOLE CARDS *** jam3s1nlove: folds Ironside: raises 1600 to 3200 PokerCity00: folds Cr@cker717: folds pestaras85: folds Vindel: raises 3200 to 6400 getaraise: folds stilli rom: folds Lehmo81: folds Ironside: calls 3200 *** FLOP *** [Ac 7s 5s] Ironside: checks Vindel: checks *** TURN *** [Ac 7s 5s] [Tc] Ironside: bets 9600 Vindel: calls 9600 *** RIVER *** [Ac 7s 5s Tc] [Js] Ironside: checks Vindel: checks *** SHOW DOWN *** Ironside: shows [Ah 7h] (two pair, Aces and Sevens) Vindel: mucks hand Ironside collected 35750 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 35750 | Rake 0 Board [Ac 7s 5s Tc Js] Seat 1: Cr@cker717 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: pestaras85 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: Vindel mucked Seat 4: getaraise (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: stilli rom (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 6: Lehmo81 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 7: jam3s1nlove folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: Ironside showed [Ah 7h] and won (35750) with two pair, Aces and Sevens Seat 9: PokerCity00 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Fold pre for a starters or fold to the 3 bet. As it is, I like the check on the flop and the lead on the turn, but you should always be betting the river. You've no reason to fear the flush given how passively he's played it and on the river he's checking back nearly always given he's flatted your turn bet. He's often got a hand like QQ that's checking back as he wants to get to showdown as cheaply as possible in the hope you've bluffed the turn. You can also get him to fold and don't have to go to a showdown...and given you've called a 3bet OOP with a7s that's no bad thing. I'd suggest you get a decent player you respect to ghost you during a session so he can see where you're missing out on value bets etc. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 10:20:23 PM solris we have major history and that hand was played due to who he was not my hand pre
yeah seeing his KJ that he mucked i would of gotten paid at river Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 10:27:21 PM this is a previous hand i had plaed agaainst same player and tried the v-bet
PokerStars Game #63032982398: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (800/1600) - 2011/06/06 21:50:12 WET [2011/06/06 16:50:12 ET] Table '424010421 119' 9-max Seat #6 is the button Seat 1: Cr@cker717 (45635 in chips) Seat 2: pestaras85 (29001 in chips) Seat 3: Vindel (53834 in chips) Seat 4: getaraise (51448 in chips) Seat 6: Lehmo81 (59362 in chips) Seat 7: jam3s1nlove (72294 in chips) Seat 8: Ironside (117038 in chips) Seat 9: PokerCity00 (22916 in chips) Cr@cker717: posts the ante 150 pestaras85: posts the ante 150 Vindel: posts the ante 150 getaraise: posts the ante 150 Lehmo81: posts the ante 150 jam3s1nlove: posts the ante 150 Ironside: posts the ante 150 PokerCity00: posts the ante 150 jam3s1nlove: posts small blind 800 Ironside: posts big blind 1600 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ironside [3c 8h] PokerCity00: folds Cr@cker717: folds pestaras85: folds Vindel: calls 1600 getaraise: folds iFTWxD is connected Lehmo81: folds jam3s1nlove: folds Ironside: checks *** FLOP *** [4h 3h 8d] Ironside: checks Vindel: bets 4800 Ironside: raises 8000 to 12800 Vindel: calls 8000 *** TURN *** [4h 3h 8d] [9c] Ironside: bets 19200 Vindel: calls 19200 *** RIVER *** [4h 3h 8d 9c] [3d] Ironside: bets 16000 Vindel: folds Uncalled bet (16000) returned to Ironside Ironside collected 69200 from pot Ironside: shows [3c 8h] (a full house, Threes full of Eights) *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 69200 | Rake 0 Board [4h 3h 8d 9c 3d] Seat 1: Cr@cker717 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: pestaras85 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: Vindel folded on the River Seat 4: getaraise folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: Lehmo81 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: jam3s1nlove (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 8: Ironside (big blind) collected (69200) Seat 9: PokerCity00 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: mondatoo on June 06, 2011, 10:29:40 PM Just from reading some of your posts on pha it seems like you pretty much are always concerned that someone might have the flush draw or straight draw so you don't want to give a free card, similarly if the draw gets there you are worried about it and therefore taking the easy option of clicking it back instead of making that vb, you can't just always assume that a card that has made the draw has helped him, work more on putting people on ranges and how much of his range you can get value from on each street.
Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 10:31:46 PM Just from reading some of your posts on pha it seems like you pretty much are always concerned that someone might have the flush draw or straight draw so you don't want to give a free card, similarly if the draw gets there you are worried about it and therefore taking the easy option of clicking it back instead of making that vb, you can't just always assume that a card that has made the draw has helped him, work more on putting people on ranges and how much of his range you can get value from on each street. i make most of my chips by representing the draw myself but i am always worried about draws played passively as i dont want to make it +ev for them to play them that way and pay them off Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Solaris on June 06, 2011, 10:34:26 PM solris we have major history and that hand was played due to who he was not my hand pre yeah seeing his KJ that he mucked i would of gotten paid at river That's largely irrelevant. I'd rather call his 3bet with 54s than A7s. He's over 40bbs deep - would you be comfortably getting 40+bbs in on an ace high flop with a7 in a 3 bet pot? I wouldn't. Mondatoo has it right as well. I think you're checking back too many rivers in the hope of bluffcatching, being able to c/r or just to check call. Too often in the micros players will check back hands they should be betting for value, so take the initiative yourself. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 10:41:30 PM so there are no oppos you would like to play in a big pot with suited aces?
this guy has been getting chips from all over the table with NE2 then passing them to me since we sat Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 10:45:32 PM he just handed me his stack now with his 89o
Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Solaris on June 06, 2011, 10:47:13 PM so there are no oppos you would like to play in a big pot with suited aces? this guy has been getting chips from all over the table with NE2 then passing them to me since we sat Not with a 7 kicker OOP in a 3bet. Absolutely not. Big chip leader now. TID please! Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: strak33 on June 06, 2011, 10:50:02 PM Please dont get bored with 50 left.
Gl Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 10:50:02 PM have you seen the play on the table?
guy limp calling from an 8bb stack in ep having half his stack in pre he already folded a cpl of times after limp calling this time he hit top pair though Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 10:51:06 PM Please dont get bored with 50 left. Gl nah i am still awake at the moment though spending more time reading blonde than watching table Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: AlexMartin on June 06, 2011, 11:11:32 PM i am struggling when i should be value betting and when i should be checking to allow the oppo to bet every time i try to value bet they are folding everytime i check they are checking behind with hands they would of called a value bet anyone help? bluff more. a lot more. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 11:17:35 PM did i make the right play here?
PokerStars Game #63036760589: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (2500/5000) - 2011/06/06 23:15:07 WET [2011/06/06 18:15:07 ET] Table '424010421 119' 9-max Seat #7 is the button Seat 1: FeyeCas (246690 in chips) Seat 2: Scorer11 (15633 in chips) Seat 3: jhn3469 (94228 in chips) Seat 4: SOCKET 11 (248505 in chips) Seat 5: jopie.64. (49919 in chips) Seat 6: uarts2 (188077 in chips) Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (340862 in chips) Seat 8: Ironside (399316 in chips) Seat 9: alivladimir (57206 in chips) FeyeCas: posts the ante 500 Scorer11: posts the ante 500 jhn3469: posts the ante 500 SOCKET 11: posts the ante 500 jopie.64.: posts the ante 500 uarts2: posts the ante 500 tommygotNUTZ: posts the ante 500 Ironside: posts the ante 500 alivladimir: posts the ante 500 Ironside: posts small blind 2500 alivladimir: posts big blind 5000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ironside [6h 6s] FeyeCas: raises 6190 to 11190 Scorer11: folds jhn3469: folds SOCKET 11: folds jopie.64.: calls 11190 uarts2: folds tommygotNUTZ: calls 11190 Ironside: calls 8690 FeyeCas said, "nice pot" FeyeCas said, ";P" alivladimir: folds *** FLOP *** [Qh 6d 4h] Ironside: bets 25000 FeyeCas: calls 25000 jopie.64.: raises 13229 to 38229 and is all-in tommygotNUTZ: folds Ironside: calls 13229 FeyeCas: calls 13229 *** TURN *** [Qh 6d 4h] [Th] Ironside: checks FeyeCas: checks *** RIVER *** [Qh 6d 4h Th] [3s] Ironside: bets 80000 FeyeCas: calls 80000 *** SHOW DOWN *** Ironside: shows [6h 6s] (three of a kind, Sixes) FeyeCas: shows [Kh Qc] (a pair of Queens) FeyeCas said, "WP" Ironside collected 160000 from side pot FeyeCas said, "dam" jopie.64.: mucks hand Ironside collected 168947 from main pot jopie.64. finished the tournament in 68th place and received $31.04. *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 328947 Main pot 168947. Side pot 160000. | Rake 0 Board [Qh 6d 4h Th 3s] Seat 1: FeyeCas showed [Kh Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens Seat 2: Scorer11 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: jhn3469 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: SOCKET 11 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: jopie.64. mucked [Qd Ad] Seat 6: uarts2 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (button) folded on the Flop Seat 8: Ironside (small blind) showed [6h 6s] and won (328947) with three of a kind, Sixes Seat 9: alivladimir (big blind) folded before Flop Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 11:18:11 PM i am struggling when i should be value betting and when i should be checking to allow the oppo to bet every time i try to value bet they are folding everytime i check they are checking behind with hands they would of called a value bet anyone help? bluff more. a lot more. wow your first to tell me that everyone at present is telling me to bluff less Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: EvilPie on June 06, 2011, 11:22:10 PM Do what alex says.
Also look at your line through the hand and try to figure out what they might put you on. Can they put you on a bluff? If they can then value bet light and I mean very light. Bottom pair or ace high with a decent kicker are the sort of hands I mean. What does their line look like? Do they look like they want to get to a cheap showdown? If they do then they probably have something good enough to call what looks like a stab at a pot. Just make sure that what you have is better than what they have. Occasionally you are going to get called and lose. This is fine because it means you will now get called more often so get paid more often on your value bets. It also means that you have to cut down on your bluffs because you are more likely to get called. It's all about balancing your bluffs, value bets and also betting your monsters. Your monsters won't get paid if you don't value bet or bluff often enough. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: EvilPie on June 06, 2011, 11:26:31 PM did i make the right play here? PokerStars Game #63036760589: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (2500/5000) - 2011/06/06 23:15:07 WET [2011/06/06 18:15:07 ET] Table '424010421 119' 9-max Seat #7 is the button Seat 1: FeyeCas (246690 in chips) Seat 2: Scorer11 (15633 in chips) Seat 3: jhn3469 (94228 in chips) Seat 4: SOCKET 11 (248505 in chips) Seat 5: jopie.64. (49919 in chips) Seat 6: uarts2 (188077 in chips) Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (340862 in chips) Seat 8: Ironside (399316 in chips) Seat 9: alivladimir (57206 in chips) FeyeCas: posts the ante 500 Scorer11: posts the ante 500 jhn3469: posts the ante 500 SOCKET 11: posts the ante 500 jopie.64.: posts the ante 500 uarts2: posts the ante 500 tommygotNUTZ: posts the ante 500 Ironside: posts the ante 500 alivladimir: posts the ante 500 Ironside: posts small blind 2500 alivladimir: posts big blind 5000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ironside [6h 6s] FeyeCas: raises 6190 to 11190 Scorer11: folds jhn3469: folds SOCKET 11: folds jopie.64.: calls 11190 uarts2: folds tommygotNUTZ: calls 11190 Ironside: calls 8690 FeyeCas said, "nice pot" FeyeCas said, ";P" alivladimir: folds *** FLOP *** [Qh 6d 4h] Ironside: bets 25000 FeyeCas: calls 25000 jopie.64.: raises 13229 to 38229 and is all-in tommygotNUTZ: folds Ironside: calls 13229 FeyeCas: calls 13229 *** TURN *** [Qh 6d 4h] [Th] Ironside: checks FeyeCas: checks *** RIVER *** [Qh 6d 4h Th] [3s] Ironside: bets 80000 FeyeCas: calls 80000 *** SHOW DOWN *** Ironside: shows [6h 6s] (three of a kind, Sixes) FeyeCas: shows [Kh Qc] (a pair of Queens) FeyeCas said, "WP" Ironside collected 160000 from side pot FeyeCas said, "dam" jopie.64.: mucks hand Ironside collected 168947 from main pot jopie.64. finished the tournament in 68th place and received $31.04. *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 328947 Main pot 168947. Side pot 160000. | Rake 0 Board [Qh 6d 4h Th 3s] Seat 1: FeyeCas showed [Kh Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens Seat 2: Scorer11 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: jhn3469 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: SOCKET 11 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: jopie.64. mucked [Qd Ad] Seat 6: uarts2 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (button) folded on the Flop Seat 8: Ironside (small blind) showed [6h 6s] and won (328947) with three of a kind, Sixes Seat 9: alivladimir (big blind) folded before Flop Personally I like to get it in on the flop. There's a lot of action killers on the turn and river which may lose your customer. Conversely there are cards that you don't like as well so they slow you down. There's a good chance of getting it in here against AQ, KQ, KK, AA and plenty of flush draws. If you're getting his stack it's just as likely now as on later streets so just get it in. EDIT: Scrap this. Just noticed raise on flop was an all in under raise. Yes it looks fine but this isn't so much a value bet as a cooler really. He's never passing. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 11:28:05 PM did i make the right play here? PokerStars Game #63036760589: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (2500/5000) - 2011/06/06 23:15:07 WET [2011/06/06 18:15:07 ET] Table '424010421 119' 9-max Seat #7 is the button Seat 1: FeyeCas (246690 in chips) Seat 2: Scorer11 (15633 in chips) Seat 3: jhn3469 (94228 in chips) Seat 4: SOCKET 11 (248505 in chips) Seat 5: jopie.64. (49919 in chips) Seat 6: uarts2 (188077 in chips) Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (340862 in chips) Seat 8: Ironside (399316 in chips) Seat 9: alivladimir (57206 in chips) FeyeCas: posts the ante 500 Scorer11: posts the ante 500 jhn3469: posts the ante 500 SOCKET 11: posts the ante 500 jopie.64.: posts the ante 500 uarts2: posts the ante 500 tommygotNUTZ: posts the ante 500 Ironside: posts the ante 500 alivladimir: posts the ante 500 Ironside: posts small blind 2500 alivladimir: posts big blind 5000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ironside [6h 6s] FeyeCas: raises 6190 to 11190 Scorer11: folds jhn3469: folds SOCKET 11: folds jopie.64.: calls 11190 uarts2: folds tommygotNUTZ: calls 11190 Ironside: calls 8690 FeyeCas said, "nice pot" FeyeCas said, ";P" alivladimir: folds *** FLOP *** [Qh 6d 4h] Ironside: bets 25000 FeyeCas: calls 25000 jopie.64.: raises 13229 to 38229 and is all-in tommygotNUTZ: folds Ironside: calls 13229 FeyeCas: calls 13229 *** TURN *** [Qh 6d 4h] [Th] Ironside: checks FeyeCas: checks *** RIVER *** [Qh 6d 4h Th] [3s] Ironside: bets 80000 FeyeCas: calls 80000 *** SHOW DOWN *** Ironside: shows [6h 6s] (three of a kind, Sixes) FeyeCas: shows [Kh Qc] (a pair of Queens) FeyeCas said, "WP" Ironside collected 160000 from side pot FeyeCas said, "dam" jopie.64.: mucks hand Ironside collected 168947 from main pot jopie.64. finished the tournament in 68th place and received $31.04. *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 328947 Main pot 168947. Side pot 160000. | Rake 0 Board [Qh 6d 4h Th 3s] Seat 1: FeyeCas showed [Kh Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens Seat 2: Scorer11 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: jhn3469 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: SOCKET 11 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: jopie.64. mucked [Qd Ad] Seat 6: uarts2 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (button) folded on the Flop Seat 8: Ironside (small blind) showed [6h 6s] and won (328947) with three of a kind, Sixes Seat 9: alivladimir (big blind) folded before Flop Personally I like to get it in on the flop. There's a lot of action killers on the turn and river which may lose your customer. Conversely there are cards that you don't like as well so they slow you down. There's a good chance of getting it in here against AQ, KQ, KK, AA and plenty of flush draws. If you're getting his stack it's just as likely now as on later streets so just get it in. problem is how to get it in on flop my open was too big to reopen the betting so i had to call Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: EvilPie on June 06, 2011, 11:30:58 PM Personally I like to get it in on the flop. There's a lot of action killers on the turn and river which may lose your customer. Conversely there are cards that you don't like as well so they slow you down. There's a good chance of getting it in here against AQ, KQ, KK, AA and plenty of flush draws. If you're getting his stack it's just as likely now as on later streets so just get it in. problem is how to get it in on flop my open was too big to reopen the betting so i had to call Edited my response mate. I guess you could check hoping that the short stack gets it in but then you look insanely strong when you raise. Loads of ways to play this and yours isn't too bad at all tbh. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 11:37:13 PM ok i did it again but i dont think he calls
PokerStars Game #63037562186: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (3500/7000) - 2011/06/06 23:35:04 WET [2011/06/06 18:35:04 ET] Table '424010421 15' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: FeyeCas (134400 in chips) Seat 2: Ironside (621037 in chips) Seat 3: Simpelx (155129 in chips) Seat 4: DaRoxa (145680 in chips) Seat 5: new-contras (373333 in chips) Seat 6: Blondie1989 (329418 in chips) Seat 8: Terminnature (136455 in chips) Seat 9: noHuK (127260 in chips) FeyeCas: posts the ante 700 Ironside: posts the ante 700 Simpelx: posts the ante 700 DaRoxa: posts the ante 700 new-contras: posts the ante 700 Blondie1989: posts the ante 700 Terminnature: posts the ante 700 noHuK: posts the ante 700 new-contras: posts small blind 3500 Blondie1989: posts big blind 7000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ironside [Ks Jc] Terminnature: folds noHuK: folds FeyeCas: folds Ironside: raises 7000 to 14000 Simpelx: folds DaRoxa: folds new-contras: calls 10500 Blondie1989: calls 7000 *** FLOP *** [Jd 2s 3s] new-contras: checks Blondie1989: checks Ironside: bets 28000 new-contras: calls 28000 Blondie1989: folds *** TURN *** [Jd 2s 3s] [4d] new-contras: checks Ironside: bets 63000 new-contras: calls 63000 *** RIVER *** [Jd 2s 3s 4d] [Ts] new-contras: checks Ironside: checks *** SHOW DOWN *** new-contras: shows [Qc Ac] (high card Ace) Ironside: shows [Ks Jc] (a pair of Jacks) Ironside collected 229600 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 229600 | Rake 0 Board [Jd 2s 3s 4d Ts] Seat 1: FeyeCas folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Ironside showed [Ks Jc] and won (229600) with a pair of Jacks Seat 3: Simpelx folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: DaRoxa (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: new-contras (small blind) showed [Qc Ac] and lost with high card Ace Seat 6: Blondie1989 (big blind) folded on the Flop Seat 8: Terminnature folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: noHuK folded before Flop (didn't bet) Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 11:42:09 PM Yes it looks fine but this isn't so much a value bet as a cooler really. He's never passing. you dont think he can pass river? Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: EvilPie on June 06, 2011, 11:44:07 PM Yes it looks fine but this isn't so much a value bet as a cooler really. He's never passing. you dont think he can pass river? Not for that amount. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 11:45:41 PM Yes it looks fine but this isn't so much a value bet as a cooler really. He's never passing. you dont think he can pass river? Not for that amount. so it was a value bet then as if i had bet more i dont get value called Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: EvilPie on June 06, 2011, 11:46:30 PM ok i did it again but i dont think he calls PokerStars Game #63037562186: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (3500/7000) - 2011/06/06 23:35:04 WET [2011/06/06 18:35:04 ET] Table '424010421 15' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: FeyeCas (134400 in chips) Seat 2: Ironside (621037 in chips) Seat 3: Simpelx (155129 in chips) Seat 4: DaRoxa (145680 in chips) Seat 5: new-contras (373333 in chips) Seat 6: Blondie1989 (329418 in chips) Seat 8: Terminnature (136455 in chips) Seat 9: noHuK (127260 in chips) FeyeCas: posts the ante 700 Ironside: posts the ante 700 Simpelx: posts the ante 700 DaRoxa: posts the ante 700 new-contras: posts the ante 700 Blondie1989: posts the ante 700 Terminnature: posts the ante 700 noHuK: posts the ante 700 new-contras: posts small blind 3500 Blondie1989: posts big blind 7000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ironside [Ks Jc] Terminnature: folds noHuK: folds FeyeCas: folds Ironside: raises 7000 to 14000 Simpelx: folds DaRoxa: folds new-contras: calls 10500 Blondie1989: calls 7000 *** FLOP *** [Jd 2s 3s] new-contras: checks Blondie1989: checks Ironside: bets 28000 new-contras: calls 28000 Blondie1989: folds *** TURN *** [Jd 2s 3s] [4d] new-contras: checks Ironside: bets 63000 new-contras: calls 63000 *** RIVER *** [Jd 2s 3s 4d] [Ts] new-contras: checks Ironside: checks *** SHOW DOWN *** new-contras: shows [Qc Ac] (high card Ace) Ironside: shows [Ks Jc] (a pair of Jacks) Ironside collected 229600 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 229600 | Rake 0 Board [Jd 2s 3s 4d Ts] Seat 1: FeyeCas folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Ironside showed [Ks Jc] and won (229600) with a pair of Jacks Seat 3: Simpelx folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: DaRoxa (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: new-contras (small blind) showed [Qc Ac] and lost with high card Ace Seat 6: Blondie1989 (big blind) folded on the Flop Seat 8: Terminnature folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: noHuK folded before Flop (didn't bet) Don't you ever bet/fold rivers? Nobody's raising worse here but they may call. You're never getting bluffed but you get more value out of some show down hands that don't want to give up on what's in the middle. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: EvilPie on June 06, 2011, 11:48:20 PM Yes it looks fine but this isn't so much a value bet as a cooler really. He's never passing. you dont think he can pass river? Not for that amount. so it was a value bet then as if i had bet more i dont get value called Not in the way that you are asking for help in this thread. You're looking for situation where you can bet light and get called by worse. Here you bet with a big hand and get called by another big hand. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 11:53:14 PM you not think KQ is a light call on that board?
Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 11:57:22 PM Don't you ever bet/fold rivers? Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 11:59:31 PM i am in trouble now lights have been turned off as everyone else in house has gone to bed and i obviously dont want them left on all night
33 players left let try and anything more stupid after i ran my 87s into a slow played AA then TT into J9 Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: vegaslover on June 07, 2011, 12:01:32 AM I'm bored whilst playing so I thought I'd rail you and see how you're doing. Here's one example of a hand I feel you misplayed. At the level he's playing your going to find a lot of players taking this passive line with a flush draw, so I don't mind the check on the river.PokerStars Game #63032674617: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (800/1600) - 2011/06/06 21:44:02 WET [2011/06/06 16:44:02 ET] Table '424010421 119' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: Cr@cker717 (84857 in chips) Seat 2: pestaras85 (25701 in chips) Seat 3: Vindel (68378 in chips) Seat 4: getaraise (42875 in chips) Seat 5: stilli rom (16623 in chips) Seat 6: Lehmo81 (64862 in chips) Seat 7: jam3s1nlove (56311 in chips) Seat 8: Ironside (60055 in chips) Seat 9: PokerCity00 (31866 in chips) Cr@cker717: posts the ante 150 pestaras85: posts the ante 150 Vindel: posts the ante 150 getaraise: posts the ante 150 stilli rom: posts the ante 150 Lehmo81: posts the ante 150 jam3s1nlove: posts the ante 150 Ironside: posts the ante 150 PokerCity00: posts the ante 150 stilli rom: posts small blind 800 Lehmo81: posts big blind 1600 *** HOLE CARDS *** jam3s1nlove: folds Ironside: raises 1600 to 3200 PokerCity00: folds Cr@cker717: folds pestaras85: folds Vindel: raises 3200 to 6400 getaraise: folds stilli rom: folds Lehmo81: folds Ironside: calls 3200 *** FLOP *** [Ac 7s 5s] Ironside: checks Vindel: checks *** TURN *** [Ac 7s 5s] [Tc] Ironside: bets 9600 Vindel: calls 9600 *** RIVER *** [Ac 7s 5s Tc] [Js] Ironside: checks Vindel: checks *** SHOW DOWN *** Ironside: shows [Ah 7h] (two pair, Aces and Sevens) Vindel: mucks hand Ironside collected 35750 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 35750 | Rake 0 Board [Ac 7s 5s Tc Js] Seat 1: Cr@cker717 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: pestaras85 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: Vindel mucked Seat 4: getaraise (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: stilli rom (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 6: Lehmo81 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 7: jam3s1nlove folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: Ironside showed [Ah 7h] and won (35750) with two pair, Aces and Sevens Seat 9: PokerCity00 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Fold pre for a starters or fold to the 3 bet. As it is, I like the check on the flop and the lead on the turn, but you should always be betting the river. You've no reason to fear the flush given how passively he's played it and on the river he's checking back nearly always given he's flatted your turn bet. He's often got a hand like QQ that's checking back as he wants to get to showdown as cheaply as possible in the hope you've bluffed the turn. You can also get him to fold and don't have to go to a showdown...and given you've called a 3bet OOP with a7s that's no bad thing. I'd suggest you get a decent player you respect to ghost you during a session so he can see where you're missing out on value bets etc. Would be betting the flop though as i think a lot of players with Ax will call/raise with little regard for you having 2 pair here Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 07, 2011, 12:07:15 AM fml last 2 hands i have played has driven it home i seriously need a coach
ok nearly dbled my stack but think i could of gotten more Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 07, 2011, 12:22:23 AM fml 1.5m in chips only 1 other with over 1m is sat on my left with 1.4m 27 left
Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 07, 2011, 12:37:30 AM offically on tilt now
obviously i am opening sb very wide PokerStars Game #63039532846: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIV (6000/12000) - 2011/06/07 0:31:52 WET [2011/06/06 19:31:52 ET] Table '424010421 15' 9-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: FeyeCas (526245 in chips) Seat 2: Ironside (963001 in chips) Seat 3: Cestmir (2238716 in chips) Seat 4: cypress72 (345649 in chips) Seat 7: berliner24 (455055 in chips) Seat 8: FIexx (312092 in chips) FeyeCas: posts the ante 1200 Ironside: posts the ante 1200 Cestmir: posts the ante 1200 cypress72: posts the ante 1200 berliner24: posts the ante 1200 FIexx: posts the ante 1200 Ironside: posts small blind 6000 Cestmir: posts big blind 12000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ironside [7s 5c] cypress72: folds berliner24: folds FIexx: folds FeyeCas: folds Ironside: raises 12000 to 24000 Cestmir: calls 12000 *** FLOP *** [4c 7c 2c] Ironside: bets 36000 Cestmir: calls 36000 *** TURN *** [4c 7c 2c] [Qs] Ironside: bets 72000 Cestmir: calls 72000 *** RIVER *** [4c 7c 2c Qs] [5h] Ironside: bets 168000 Cestmir: raises 168000 to 336000 Ironside: calls 168000 *** SHOW DOWN *** Cestmir: shows [3s 6s] (a straight, Three to Seven) Ironside: mucks hand Cestmir collected 943200 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 943200 | Rake 0 Board [4c 7c 2c Qs 5h] Seat 1: FeyeCas (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Ironside (small blind) mucked [7s 5c] Seat 3: Cestmir (big blind) showed [3s 6s] and won (943200) with a straight, Three to Seven Seat 4: cypress72 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: berliner24 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: FIexx folded before Flop (didn't bet) Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 07, 2011, 01:02:32 AM this hand played itself right?
PokerStars Game #63040388633: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXV (8000/16000) - 2011/06/07 1:00:36 WET [2011/06/06 20:00:36 ET] Table '424010421 15' 9-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: FeyeCas (1134800 in chips) Seat 2: Ironside (209101 in chips) Seat 3: Cestmir (2620433 in chips) Seat 6: jojovölker (795126 in chips) Seat 7: berliner24 (554100 in chips) Seat 8: FIexx (618384 in chips) Seat 9: evasion80 (173392 in chips) FeyeCas: posts the ante 1600 Ironside: posts the ante 1600 Cestmir: posts the ante 1600 jojovölker: posts the ante 1600 berliner24: posts the ante 1600 FIexx: posts the ante 1600 evasion80: posts the ante 1600 Ironside: posts small blind 8000 Cestmir: posts big blind 16000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ironside [3h 3c] jojovölker: folds berliner24: folds FIexx: folds evasion80: folds FeyeCas: folds Ironside: raises 191501 to 207501 and is all-in Cestmir: calls 191501 *** FLOP *** [Qd 2c 5s] *** TURN *** [Qd 2c 5s] [5d] *** RIVER *** [Qd 2c 5s 5d] [5h] Cestmir said, "gg" *** SHOW DOWN *** Ironside: shows [3h 3c] (a full house, Fives full of Threes) Cestmir: shows [7c 7d] (a full house, Fives full of Sevens) FeyeCas said, "gg" Cestmir collected 426202 from pot Ironside finished the tournament in 14th place and received $82.17. *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 426202 | Rake 0 Board [Qd 2c 5s 5d 5h] Seat 1: FeyeCas (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Ironside (small blind) showed [3h 3c] and lost with a full house, Fives full of Threes Seat 3: Cestmir (big blind) showed [7c 7d] and won (426202) with a full house, Fives full of Sevens Seat 6: jojovölker folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: berliner24 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: FIexx folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: evasion80 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: EvilPie on June 07, 2011, 01:04:03 AM Calm down!!!
Why are you 'obviously' opening the SB very wide? You don't have to win every pot that folds to you. Believe it or not I actually prefer to check this river to get him to bluff. In this spot you can easily look like you've had a couple of shots at it and given up on this bricky looking river. His calling looks a bit like a flush draw so give him a chance to bluff then snap him off. It's a $5 comp so think at a very basic level. You've still got plenty left. Take your time and stay out of pots with shit hands especially oop against the big stack. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: EvilPie on June 07, 2011, 01:05:45 AM this hand played itself right? PokerStars Game #63040388633: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXV (8000/16000) - 2011/06/07 1:00:36 WET [2011/06/06 20:00:36 ET] Table '424010421 15' 9-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: FeyeCas (1134800 in chips) Seat 2: Ironside (209101 in chips) Seat 3: Cestmir (2620433 in chips) Seat 6: jojovölker (795126 in chips) Seat 7: berliner24 (554100 in chips) Seat 8: FIexx (618384 in chips) Seat 9: evasion80 (173392 in chips) FeyeCas: posts the ante 1600 Ironside: posts the ante 1600 Cestmir: posts the ante 1600 jojovölker: posts the ante 1600 berliner24: posts the ante 1600 FIexx: posts the ante 1600 evasion80: posts the ante 1600 Ironside: posts small blind 8000 Cestmir: posts big blind 16000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ironside [3h 3c] jojovölker: folds berliner24: folds FIexx: folds evasion80: folds FeyeCas: folds Ironside: raises 191501 to 207501 and is all-in Cestmir: calls 191501 *** FLOP *** [Qd 2c 5s] *** TURN *** [Qd 2c 5s] [5d] *** RIVER *** [Qd 2c 5s 5d] [5h] Cestmir said, "gg" *** SHOW DOWN *** Ironside: shows [3h 3c] (a full house, Fives full of Threes) Cestmir: shows [7c 7d] (a full house, Fives full of Sevens) FeyeCas said, "gg" Cestmir collected 426202 from pot Ironside finished the tournament in 14th place and received $82.17. *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 426202 | Rake 0 Board [Qd 2c 5s 5d 5h] Seat 1: FeyeCas (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Ironside (small blind) showed [3h 3c] and lost with a full house, Fives full of Threes Seat 3: Cestmir (big blind) showed [7c 7d] and won (426202) with a full house, Fives full of Sevens Seat 6: jojovölker folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: berliner24 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: FIexx folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: evasion80 folded before Flop (didn't bet) 16 to 1 against the other guy having a pair. Shove is fine. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Karabiner on June 07, 2011, 10:42:45 AM Do the opposite to what you are doing. Sound advice here. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: JK on June 07, 2011, 10:56:55 AM Calm down!!! Why are you 'obviously' opening the SB very wide? You don't have to win every pot that folds to you. Believe it or not I actually prefer to check this river to get him to bluff. In this spot you can easily look like you've had a couple of shots at it and given up on this bricky looking river. His calling looks a bit like a flush draw so give him a chance to bluff then snap him off. It's a $5 comp so think at a very basic level. You've still got plenty left. Take your time and stay out of pots with shit hands especially oop against the big stack. Bolded points were the first things I thought when reading that last post. Why would you go out of your way to play a pot with the one guy that has you covered, OOP with a ragshit hand. Hes not folding much BVB here (He called you with 3s6s and called 2 bullets with a gutshot on a 3 flush board). Just give him a walk. Dunno why people are so scared of that nowadays. At least have something that plays a bit better postflop imo Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 07, 2011, 11:08:54 AM Calm down!!! Why are you 'obviously' opening the SB very wide? You don't have to win every pot that folds to you. Believe it or not I actually prefer to check this river to get him to bluff. In this spot you can easily look like you've had a couple of shots at it and given up on this bricky looking river. His calling looks a bit like a flush draw so give him a chance to bluff then snap him off. It's a $5 comp so think at a very basic level. You've still got plenty left. Take your time and stay out of pots with shit hands especially oop against the big stack. Bolded points were the first things I thought when reading that last post. Why would you go out of your way to play a pot with the one guy that has you covered, OOP with a ragshit hand. Hes not folding much BVB here (He called you with 3s6s and called 2 bullets with a gutshot on a 3 flush board). Just give him a walk. Dunno why people are so scared of that nowadays. At least have something that plays a bit better postflop imo i knew after the game where i went wrong i took the 2 beats to heart then tried to get the chips back Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Solaris on June 07, 2011, 11:12:58 AM Calm down!!! Why are you 'obviously' opening the SB very wide? You don't have to win every pot that folds to you. Believe it or not I actually prefer to check this river to get him to bluff. In this spot you can easily look like you've had a couple of shots at it and given up on this bricky looking river. His calling looks a bit like a flush draw so give him a chance to bluff then snap him off. It's a $5 comp so think at a very basic level. You've still got plenty left. Take your time and stay out of pots with shit hands especially oop against the big stack. Bolded points were the first things I thought when reading that last post. Why would you go out of your way to play a pot with the one guy that has you covered, OOP with a ragshit hand. Hes not folding much BVB here (He called you with 3s6s and called 2 bullets with a gutshot on a 3 flush board). Just give him a walk. Dunno why people are so scared of that nowadays. At least have something that plays a bit better postflop imo i knew after the game where i went wrong i took the 2 beats to heart then tried to get the chips back You need to work on your emotional maturity then tbf. That's not meant as a huge dig, but at the end of the day you were probably 2-3 tables away from a $2.8k payday from a $5.50 investment and you should be able to shake off bad beats and get your head focused on the objective of winning. As has been said, opening 75o bvb was awful, but hopefully you've learnt from it. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Ironside on June 07, 2011, 11:21:33 AM Calm down!!! Why are you 'obviously' opening the SB very wide? You don't have to win every pot that folds to you. Believe it or not I actually prefer to check this river to get him to bluff. In this spot you can easily look like you've had a couple of shots at it and given up on this bricky looking river. His calling looks a bit like a flush draw so give him a chance to bluff then snap him off. It's a $5 comp so think at a very basic level. You've still got plenty left. Take your time and stay out of pots with shit hands especially oop against the big stack. Bolded points were the first things I thought when reading that last post. Why would you go out of your way to play a pot with the one guy that has you covered, OOP with a ragshit hand. Hes not folding much BVB here (He called you with 3s6s and called 2 bullets with a gutshot on a 3 flush board). Just give him a walk. Dunno why people are so scared of that nowadays. At least have something that plays a bit better postflop imo i knew after the game where i went wrong i took the 2 beats to heart then tried to get the chips back You need to work on your emotional maturity then tbf. That's not meant as a huge dig, but at the end of the day you were probably 2-3 tables away from a $2.8k payday from a $5.50 investment and you should be able to shake off bad beats and get your head focused on the objective of winning. As has been said, opening 75o bvb was awful, but hopefully you've learnt from it. Title: Re: i am struggling with V bets Post by: Bongo on June 07, 2011, 11:38:22 AM Chips for honours?
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