blonde poker forum

Background:

Playing 5 handed in a tough £1/£2 deep cash game at DTD. Line up is:

CO: Simon Deadman (~£600)
Btn: Neil "jakally" Giblin (~£1500)
SB: Me (£835)
BB: Mitch "Mitch" Johnson (~£2500)
Straddle - lol what a balla these days: Alex "Cambridge Alex" Goulder (~£800)

Neil opens the button to £15

I find  Tc Ts in the small blind and 3bet to £55

Mitch calls

Neil 4bets to £185

Hero ???

Reads: I perceive Neil to be a terrible very good reg who is more than capable of bluffing in this spot. In general he is probably in the tighter half of this table (along with me), but is not a nit by any means, also he has appeared to noticeably be more keen to go to war preflop tonight than when I have played with him previously (perhaps because there is an absence of weaker spots in the game), and has already 5bet Alex's UTG 4bet and shown Kc Tc and 4bet Mitch and snap folded to a shove. I have also already 3bet and 4bet him on a few occasions in this game but not yet shown down any hands in these spots.

Mitch is also a very good terrible reg, but in this spot he will definitely be peeling wider than most, and it's 100% not the case that he always has a strong hand here, I'm pretty sure he would be 4betting all of his monsters here. Neil also knows this.

Im interested in discussing firstly the sizing of the initial 3bet (anyone think just call?) which is probably a little on the small side, and how people would rank the following options now:
a) Fold (If so what do you do with JJ)
b) Call
c) 400 -> Call
d) Jam (I guess this is pretty much the same as c)

Also please dont waste both my and your time by posting something along the lines of "unreg pre". I do know this is not a good game. It had been a better game earlier in the night and i stayed because i was enjoying it, pure and simple.

Sorry to tangent off here but I think this is a pretty bad spot to 3bet unless we have some reason to expect someone to spazz off or the dynamic of the game is such that its a fistpump 5ball get in.

Problem with 3betting here, TT or anything is that no1 ever folds to 3bets really so we either get 4 bet or have toplay a deep, arkward pot OOP vs capable thinkers. My adjustment for balance sake would be to 3bet zero%  hands from the SB in this line up. You get 3bet QQ+ and AK and then balance by throwing a ton of light 3bets in, the light 3bets will prolly be -EV in a vacuum and you'l polarize you're 3bets and make you really easy to 4bet.

SO yh would just peel pre. Now Im either folding or jamming depending on several things that you'll know and I dont :P

I am a nit though.

Why do you guys play against each other? Seems pretty ridic

With lildave. Call pre. Fold know. Feels dirty tho

There's no way I could resist sticking it in his eye here.

Should definitely just peel this deep though.

PS: Have a plan obv.

Nice level george. if not a level, read op ffs

Where am I levelling exactly?

You always seem to pick on the points ppl say they don't want discussing. In this case, he says why he was playing in the game, cos of the fish that were there earlier. And now they've gone, he was just playing cos it was a good laugh.

I also commentated on the hand

Have also spoke to Andy since and agreed that I'm a hypocrite. I'd probably love to play in a game like this even though I'd get eaten alive

Amazing how one big score can change a person's tone in posts.

Why does it matter if George asks about it itt, I'd find it pretty interesting to find out why each of you where sitting in the game, if I played poker for fun and to have a laugh I'd love playing this deep, having fun and messing around, doing it for a living and seeing there's no value at the table I would've snap left.

I think thats the thing, I did have a plan. The way the game was playing I was planning to induce a 4bet and get it in, which isn't something id usually do against Neil here, but felt with game flow that was ok. The reason I questioned my sizing in OP is because i think if I'm wanting to do this I should be going bigger... like 62-65 as otherwise SPR isnt really great to 3b/5b. After Mitch flatted I'm actually pretty happy jamming here over this 4bet. I think with this specific effective stack i agree flatting pre is better and maybe if I had like 650 I should be happier getting this in.

Have asked Tighty to close my account, moving to Auburn Poker.com. Its a poker forum for ballas.

haters gonna hate.  ;whistle;

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=186500
thats 2 big scores  ;nana;

how long did the book help for?  rotflmfao

yes i am  ;ifm;

and happy anniversary George both amazing people.
 ;letsparty;

So mond you wouldve snap left and gone home? If the choice is between playing in a 0ev game as fun and interesting as this and going home and bashing one out, there's no contest...

Now, that's assuming its a 0ev game...

If you want to make it as a professional bashing one off might be less spewy and less expensive then playing in this line up

[ ] Biting

WP. Too good atm

 ;tightend;

In all seriousness though I understand how this game is fun and to an extent educational but does seem a waste when you've probably still got softer games running like maybe DC?

Yeh but meh, lifes too good atm :)

If I where you and had just binked 35 bags I'd ship it in blind every hand for com value then go get smashed.

;kneelsucker;

I mean its one game and not like anyone makes a habbit of deliberately trying to sit in games with all the good players, but in all seriousness can all the bumhunters in the world grow a pair and actually try play poker pls

I have no problem with bumhunting in general but when people quit games they are rolled for because the line up gets tough I just think......pussssssssssssssyboi walk den, walk den pussssssssssssyboi. (haha lol@me)

Back to the hand. I think you're sizing is fine for the 3bet as planned because most of the time you will be getting peeled and i think he's 4bet range widens slightly with the smaller sizing as his "light" 3balls prolly show a little more profit, + I think id marginally prefer to have the pot a little less bloated when we're taking a flop.

Think with the plan you had either jamming or 5betting really small, to like ~£325 would be the way to go, snapping his lil face off when he wagers all his chips ofc.

Neil's at it, so jam.  His balls are not nearly as big as his belly.

i think 3b/fold here is quite good, because he knows ur v.smart and will prob expect that u expect him to 4b light therefore u wouldnt 3b bluff against him especially now mitch is in and it looks even better spot i think he just always has a really good hand that he wants to get in and because hes a little deeper vs mitch he will just peel the 55 and play in position against the fish.

i fold now.

I'm on his side. Why send him bum hunting after me

Why didn't the 5 of you pack up and head to a strip club.

Every 3 minutes take it in turns to throw £7 in to a pot.

Every 9 minutes one of you gets to see some boobs.

Perhaps skip every 4th lap dance to get a round in or something.

tbf everyone in poker  (jncluding myself) thinks they way better than they are, everyone in the game probably thought they had an edge.

Goin to take a pinch of courage an say why are the raises so big for a 1 2 game or is that standard as it seems to be playing like a £2 £5 game of opening raises. An in op post defense i can understand playing in a game of -ev but having a really good time an challenging himself to be a winner in it as financially its in his comfort zone so should be able to play well. But bottom line is he probaly wants to get an ego the size of mitchs so feels he has to play these games to get it !

best post ive read in a while !

best pha post of the year so far - and so very true!

No you wouldn't!!

You went and snap paid off your credit card!!

Needs more love. Almost made me cry laughing!

LOL. Brilliant


LOL. So true

LOL.

no game is 0ev. rake makes things tougher but on different nights this game will have the same players playing winning or losing styles.

bumhunters gtfo. what happens when a worse player walks in ready to drop some money and sees no game running?

i'm not keen trying to get into a 4/5bet levelling war here with Neil in particular, I've always thought he had the best understanding of preflop dynamics in the dtd games and his ranges are weighted very well. So in a vacuum I don't like 3betting to induce with awkward stack sizes, also obviously this isnt a hand that is going to play well oop if the 3bet is just called (baring in mind Mitch is still active also).

having said that thanks to Mitch's donation to the cause and the now fairly large 4ball its probably a jam since we dont need him to fold that often.

when he fold we win £295 but when he calls we prob lose around £200-250 (assuming MTF doesn't use soe sort of side pot implied odds to flop a set)

Good post GED.

The amount of money Mitch deems prudent to call preflop with suited connectors and small pocket pairs is unfathomable to say the least.

Oh look, there's the first case of the classic autocorrect capitalistion of "Ged" (an annoying side-effect of this new iPad I've purchased)

Yeah really good post, 100% agree with the bit in bold here in particular and pretty much everything else as well. My thinking when I broke the hand down is pretty much exactly the same as this post, I was 3betting to induce but stack sizes definitely aren't good for it and with hindsight I prefer peeling pre.

Results: I shove (think I'd still happily do this as played now) and Neil confirms the amount for a couple of seconds before calling with AK. Lost both runs through the board which was pretty sigh but even after that I don't regret playing in the game, really enjoyed it not just because of the obvious banter that was going on, but also because it throws up difficult spots such as this one and really helps me to improve my game IMO. Sure I like calling pre with pairs flopping sets and stacking a fish but it's pretty mindless and I still get a thrill from the mental battle involved in playing with good players.

excellent. excellent post. My metaphorical hat is tipped slightly to the side.

You ran it twice!!

That makes the game even more of a rake feeder.

Let's get £800 in each then do the best we can to chop it up and donate £7 to the cause.

Not trying to be horrible here by the way.

Personally I'd love to play in this game rather than some dull grind.

Sounds like fun but I'm also trying to look at it from a practical point of view.

As played I think you did everything spot on right up to the point where you run it twice.

Get it in, win the flip then laugh hard at Giblin.

Lol, since when did running it twice effect the ev of any situation?!

Who mentioned EV?

In case anyone couldnt be bothered to reads matts post.

not really sure how running it twice makes it more of a rake feeder. If we run it twice the rake is £7, If we run it once the rake is £7.

you know where he is coming from lol.

The point is that if you chop you both lose £3.50. If you win one of yuo loses £850 the other wins £843. I don't think it matters really though lol

Definitely agree with the lol @ bumhunters camp

The games wouldn't last very long if all the regs sat in the bar playing solitaire till some random punter turned up

Playing in this sort of game isn't going to improve anyone as a player in itself. We all know a few guys that have been playing against the same lineups for years and still don't beat them. It will throw up spots that will improve your play vs these regs if you study them though. Improving your winrate vs the other regs is obv going to be a good thing when one or more of these players will be involved in most of your sessions.

Bumhunting FTMFW, fk the haters.

Dan Morgan always says such intelligent things


Did you like this bit I said Dan? made me lol to myself for ages when I wrote it.

haha, it actually made me put dizzee's back catalogue to the top of the playlist for tomorrows grind

My thoughts relating to points made in this thread :

Postflop I'm a dog in this game, therefore I'm trying to take advantage of any edge I may have preflop in all spots.
400+ bb's deep (or 200+ depending how you view the straddle) I would not always be looking to get AK in preflop, but given the previous dynamic, I've got to be playing AK strong where it's sensible.
Andy would recognise my preflop strat. more readily than probably any of the others, and would adjust his game to suit.

Andy's 3, 4 and 5 bet range PF is wider than anyone else in this game, therefore my range for 4 betting, and calling his 5 bet, is wider than against any of the other players.
IMO his 3b / 5b shove with TT is super standard, and this line will be decently profitable.

In terms of playing in this game, it's the most fun I have pokerwise at any point in a 'working' week.
I know for certain I would be a loser, long term, in this line up, but I don't mind sometimes making a small donation if I'm having a good time.

I can't ever remember requesting to run a hand twice (or more) before.
Usually, I am in the 'whatever will be, will be' camp, and I'm rolled ok for the games I play in.
For some reason I snap-suggested to Andy that we run it twice.
I'm kind of ambivalent on it as an issue.
I kind of like the excitement of having one shot at a big pot (gamblers instinct obv), but will tend to go with the flow, if the other person in the hand has a strong opinion, and wants to run multiple boards.

If i was in this spot vs a reg player I know well and quite like Id run it twice because deep down Id be pretty fine with splitting it as I dont like to see my mates lose.

Would also be absolutley fine with winning £850 mind

thats a good post.

Yea i agree with not 3betting this hand semi-deep vs competent players. I'd still 3bet with almost the same frequencies, but they'd be more nutted hands like big suited broadways and suited Ax wheels.

I'm a bit confused. How can you 3 bet with the same frequency when you've changed your 3 bet range?

Are you just planning on getting better cards?

hes taking 1010/99/aj out of his range and adding a2,a3,a4,a5s kinda hands. so the same amount (frequencies) but different range.

What Pleno said, just because you've changed your range doesn't mean you've changed your frequency. Obviously you get dealt way more suited Ax than pairs but i probably wouldn't be 3 betting every single one every time.

I'm defo in the call pre camp.

fyp....... And no shit ;)

See you this weekend Herbie. We can have some Greek-Chino camp fun.

Lol. Damm. Did read you was making a guest appearance this weekend. We can compare man bags. Be nice to see you before you go on your travels. X