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For an amateur player in their respective sports which is harder to acheive

A 180 in Darts or a hole in one at Golf?

and Why?

180 requires more skill
hole in one less likely and therefore harder to achieve

hole in one

dubai ended the thread in record time ;)

Hole in one, definitely.

It is easier to fluke a hole in one than a 180, though?

therefore a hole in one might be easier to achieve?

(most people said hole in one, I argued the other way, just for fun lol)

Surely a hole in 1?

Buy a dartboard and practice for long enough and you'll hit a 180. Bet there's loads of pros who haven't hit a hole in 1?

I've hit a few 180's and only played casually.

Maybe flawed logic

Hole in one, don't even think it's close.

An average dart player will hit hundreds of 180s in their life.

How many holes in one will an average golfer manage?

Don't think so. I've seen enough people who even after a few pints can hit 180s and they rarely ever play. On the other hand I've never seen anyone get close to a hole in one (especially not after a few pints!).

Which is more skillfull is irrelevant (it's the hole in 1 imo), the harder to achieve of the two is definitely the hole in 1.

I'd also add that in a game of darts you're going to get a hell of a lot more attempts at throwing 180s, whereas you're going to get 3-4 attempts(?) on an hole course I'd imagine?

Years ago when I participated in the Partick drinkarts league, 180s were commonplace on a league competition night.  According to wikipedia an amateur is 12500-1 to get a hole in one, so I doubt it is close at all.

This, the frequency of attempts makes this very one sided.

Hole in one definitely harder.

I've managed to fluke a 180 once in my life.  Still waiting for the hole in one!

There is an interesting discussion point here about frequency thou

If you are making this scientific, then does the golfer not have to play to the same green with the same pin position? Also hole length is v significant.

Still think it's golf, but this would narrow the edge considerably

As an amateur player of both from my experience the hole in 1 is harder. I have done 2 180's at darts but not had a hole in 1 yet. But i think that it is hard to quantify as you can spend 30 mins playing darts and have maybe 60 attempts at a 180 yet you can play a round of golf in 4 hours and only have 4 attempts  at a hole in 1.

closer contest would be hitting a double or hitting the green on a par 3

and if you ever complain about how hard you work during a deepstack blog tighty, i will defo be bringing this thread up ;)

I've done both.

Two 180s and I'm shite at darts

No hole in ones, etc etc

How long was the hole , what club did you use?

putter imo... obv talking about crazy golf.

Was a small par 3 dunno about 90 yards used a pitching wedge.

lol. sure i saw how good you were at golf  on a celtic thread. would say that  darts  was your stronger game :)

No way man, thats pitch&putt that dosent count , I have about 50 of them but they aint a patch on my 1 real Hole in one in Golf ;)

Whilst I'm here bragging I've hit plenty of 180's too, I have a board in my room, I'm not particularly good so that adds weight that they're easy enough compared to a hole in one.

Roffle @ counting a pitch'n'putt for hole-in-one purposes

i got a hole in one on Wii Golf

This

It was on an actual golf course with dog legs n par 5's n that.

What was the Par 5 ? 200 yards?

£3500 a year membership too. dont give in to em girgy. ;)

lol... they made all the holes par 5's to keep the score respectable

The frequency is key to this. Also the term amateur is critical.

You'd need to set up the test in controlled conditions with one shot at the par 3 for every 1 go at the 180.

If both players were complete newbies and had never played before the hole in one would be reached first.

If both players were professionals obviously the 180 would be first.

Somewhere in between there's going to be a point where they both take the same number of goes.

You need to define the exact level of ability of an amateur in each discipline before you can really answer the question and that's difficult.

Forgetting all the contolled conditions I'd say that the 180 is much easier for an amateur to achieve than a hole in one but I'm basing that on my understanding of the term amateur.

how can you possibly say that when there are pro players who do nothing but play golf all day who have never hit a hole in one?

I can say it because it's an opinion. There are no cold hard facts or science that can sway this argument one way or another.

My thinking was along the following lines:

I'm assuming that pros don't practice hole in ones very often as it's pretty pointless. If this is wrong I apologise.

A round of golf takes about 3 hours? Again this is a guess?

I'll assume a max of 3 rounds per day. Assuming 4 par 3 holes that's 12 goes at a hole in one every day.

If he plays every day of the year that's 4380 goes per year.

I think I've gone way over the top here and that the pros won't really have this many goes. Therefore they just don't have that many goes at something which is apparently a 12500 to 1 shot anyway.

If there were controlled confitions you could have 1 go every minute or so. I don't think it would take long before you were hitting the ball in roughly the right direction. It then becomes a case of luck more than skill.

There is much less luck involved in achieving a 180 as you have to be much more precise. It would take many more goes before you were getting anywhere near the 60 never mind 3 of them at the same time.

There is much more chance of achieving a fluke hole in one than achieving the level of competence necessary to hit a 180.

This is all just my opinion of course.

I think what he meant is that if you give a complete novice 3 darts and ask him to try for a 180 then he is less likely to achieve this on his first try, second try, third try than if you hand a complete novice a golf club and ask him to hit a hole in one. The 180 involving 3 flukes and the hole in 1 involving 1 fluke.

Personally I'm not convinced of that either. A complete noob triple fluking a treble 20 is probably still more likely than a complete noob fluking a hole in one. The complete golf noob is going to hit the ball anywhere near the pin such a low % of the time. When they swing with enough power they're unlikely to hit the ball in the right place, when they hit the ball in the right place they won't use enough power. First day of golf, how many greens did you hit?

In contrast your dart noob will hit the board well over >50%*

*source : watching Bullseye in late 80s and early 90s on Sundays at my Grandad's house.

I would've thought pros would have a load of shots at each hole rather than just playing rounds wouldn't they? otherwise they'd be spending most of their practice time walking round. I'm only guessing too though, no idea really

surely the way to settle this is to just find out which one girgy managed first

All I can say is anybody going around offering bods 12,500-1 to hit a 180 is going to go skint very quickly.

It obviously depends on competence.

Someone who's never played darts has to be millions to one to get a 180 but noob golfer would be the same to hit a hole in one.

A pro golfer would be nowhere near 12500 to 1 to hit a hole in one. I'd guess having constant goes at it they'd hit one within 1000 attempts.

A pro darts player probably hits a 180 every 5 goes or so?

There's a level of competence somewhere in there where both are as likely to be achieved as each other.

An amateur golfer is probably almost as likely to hit a hole in one as a pro.

An amateur darts player is nowhere near as likely to hit a 180 as the pro darts player.

Again this is all opinion. Could be very wrong.

Being pretty proficient at darts and very good at golf this is definitely correct. You have to be really good at darts to get a 180. Anyone at pretty much any standard can get a hole in one with some skill and luck

I dont think you have to be really good at darts to get a 180, If you land the 1st dart perfectly in the treb 20, then that auto creates a bigger target, It's easier for a newb to then just aim at the dart they have just thrown before they know it 2 darts are in and the 2 darts now look like a humongous target, now just hold your bottle and land 1 on top of them darts then boom ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNE HUUUUUUUNDDDDREEEEEEEED AND EEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGHHHHHHTYYYYYYYY

Simples

Apparently a pro golfer is about 2500-1 and an amateur is 12500-1. So superlative skill doesn't make the hole in one anything like as likely as superlative skill in darts makes the 180 likely.  A hole in one is just too difficult.  Actually girgy playing at the pitch and put is the best comparison.  I think that maybe something like holing a 40 yard pitch to the green is getting near to a comparison.

9 dart finish or a 147 in snnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooker?

Now that I like!

No idea either.

hole in one is harder then 180

but it hink 9 darter will be harder then 147 right

147 u can mess up and get back on track but 147 has little room for mistake

Confused.com

Continually being oop in an alex Higgins styleee

I got a hole in 1 in April. Im shite and have played Golf about 9 times in my life.

Never got a 180, had a 160 and a few 140s etc.


A hole in 1 is defo harder though.

Played golf 8 times in my life and got 2 hole in ones.

fyp

180 has little room for mistake

sorrryyy

Neither does a 147, surely? You might have 15 reds to choose from, but you need to hit 15 blacks straight after them.

A 9 darter has no room for error, Its 9 perfect darts required. But 147 would be miles harder to do ino

a 180 is easier becuase you get so many more opportunities where as you only get 4 chances for a hole in one in a normal round of golf.

plus i know you said for an average player but a professional golfer probably makes a 1 every 3-4 thousand par 3's a pro darts player gets a 180 every 20 throws maybe? so i would assume the 180 is much easier

i've had two of each and i'm much better at golf than at darts.

180 is far easier, i have hit a few 180's in my time and not a real good player.

but if i get on the green in one i nurse a semi

when i was younger i played a ton of golf (4 handicap when i was 13 - sick brag) and i never had a hole in one

played a fair amount of darts but not countless hours of practice and had 3 or 4 180's

so id guess a hole in 1 is a lot harder to achieve from my personal experience

however iv probably threw 3 darts at treble 20 a lot more times than iv played a par 3

diversionary tactic?

Before Darrens back gave up on him we used to play a little golf and I mean a little, but I managed a hole in one twice on the same hole, diffent days but still I happy.

I am equally shit in both disciplines, so I should be the test subject.

180 alot lot lot harder.  hole in one basically just luck...............even pros are just aiming for the centre of the green ...................... anything else is a bonus

ruholding

This is a very good point.

I don't much know about golf but I'd guess that on your average par 3 you aim for a safe area of the green to give you the easiest putt for a birdie or par?

Aiming to get a hole in one is probably sub optimal golf so they just don't do it.

If there was a hole in one competition they obviously aim straight for the hole so the odds against getting one will decrease again.

Surely a 147 is 37 perfect shots?

How does a 9 darter have no room for error? You have a dart with a pointy bit less than 1mm across which can go anywhere in a bed about 8mm by 20mm (just a guess). Looks like a fair bit of wiggle room to me.

In snooker you have a ball about 50mm in diammeter that has to go in a pocket about 90mm across. Not much wiggle room there.

At the top level I'd guess that the frequency of a 147 or 9 darter occurring is pretty similar.

Both unbelievably difficult but both readily achievable in the modern games.

Well what I meant was, that you could keep running out of position on a 147 and then pot your way out of trouble, bring the white ball around the angles or whatever, So they wouldn't technically be perfect shots ye know what I mean?

As far the Darts, yea they prob have some wiggle room if you're Phil Taylor cos he can land them on the width of a flys eyelash apparently.

Hole in one is harder imo.  Darts players throw loads of 180's each tournament so it can't be that hard.  We do a couple of darts leagues round here and they get awards for throwing 180's and there's loads of them being given out.   If I played darts for 6 months, I'd expect to get at least 1x180.  I could play golf for 20 years and not get a hole in one.

147 or 9 darter (300 game at bowling) ?  Completely different, both pretty hard to do I imagine

I was going to mention a 300 in ten-pin bowling.  I know of a couple of people who have scored 300s, and they are serious amateur players (one actually works as the mechanic at a bowl, bowls in leagues and obviously gets in a ridiculous amount of practice whilst 'working'). 

I'd say a 300 is comparable to the others, all out of the reach of anyone who isn't a very, very decent player.

The 300 is much more attainable than either a 147 or a 9 darter.

Probably similar in skill level to an 11/12 darter or a total clearance. Pros do it regularly, amateurs get it now and then and it's a massive big deal.

A 3 set 900 is about the same skill level as a 9 darter or 147. I'm basing this on how many people actually achieve it which isn't many.

Pro's dont get as many 300's as you'd think.  It's probably marginally harder than a 9 darter given that it's 12 perfect bowls rather than just 9 perfect darts.

A 3 set 900 would be bloody impossible I expect, miles harder than a 9 darter or 147

in fact, from the pba website

CONSECUTIVE 300s
3, Norm Duke, over two rounds (North Brunswick, NJ, April, 10, 1996)

only once ever in pro bowling has someone bowled 3x300 games and that was 15 years ago!

'Norm Duke' - could he have a name that made him sound more like an American ten-pin bowling pro?

Please just end the thread.
Hole in one easiest for average Joe punter with no better pre-achieved skill in any discipline
The nine darter is next easiest followed by 147 which is about 50 times harder than a nine darter to achieve for average person. I fact I would say your average Joe will never ever be able to get a 147, whereas a lot of practice might get you a nine darter and if you play golf long enough even at a relatively poor standard you probably will get a hole in one even on a normal par 72 course with average four par 4's per round.


Now, this is over folks, nothing more to debate here

So where does the 300 fit in?

;carlocitrone;

How many 180s would you expect Phil Taylor to hit from a dozen tries?

How many holes in one would you expect Rory McIlroy to hit on a dozen par threes?

[ ] amateurs

It'd be more interesting the other way round, with Taylor going for the hole-in-one and McIlroy going for the 180s.

think we should add holing an iron shot from between 130-200 yards as its exactly the same skill level (if anything harder due to dodgy lies) think from me playing golf for around 6 years from a decent standard i holed 7 or 8 long shorts. 100% sure if id have put the same amount of practice in on the dart board id have a lot more 180's

I'd back McIlroy to attain the skill required to achieve a 180 given a week's practice and Taylor to be able to hit the green with the same level of preparation.

However - I won a nearest the pin competition with a tee shot that missed the green by about 10 yards but hit the perfect spot on the side of the bunker and could have gone in the hole if it had rolled another foot or so. Can't get a 180 by bouncing off the scorer's nose or the lights.

147 harder than either and 300 game somewhere in between.

Where would you rank a 167 checkout?

I would say that holes in one on par fours are quite a rarity.

FWIW I've played single-figure handicap golf for over forty years and never had an ace.

at last an honest golfer. i cant believe all the hole in ones here and yet on the tours the car for a hole in one rarley gets won by the best 100 players in the world having either 2 or 4 goes at it week in week out

Hole in one is approx 5/4 in any given tournament, another poorly thought out post.

Remember the 'Hole in One Gang'? I'm sure some here do.
http://green-all-over.blogspot.com/2010/10/hole-in-one-gang-and-more.html

really. wow an honest book maker giving the real odds of a hole in one in a tournament. best get you house on the next event.  rotflmfao
less than a  seconds thought given to this reply

180 requires more skill due to the fine nature of the skill.  You must hit a small target area repeatedly with each attempt becoming progressively more difficult.  There is very little luck involved.

The hole-in-one requires huge amounts of luck in my opinion as it is a matter of hitting the ball into a general area (skill) and allowing the undulations of the green to send the ball home (luck).

The skill level involved in scoring a 300 in bowling depends on whether you had the bumpers.

quite clearly you dont understand the art of throwing a dart!

odds of a pro getting a hole in one 2500-1 -- probability of him not - .9996

4 par 3s on course 120 golfers round 1 and 2 60 golfers round 3 and 4, so 1440 attempts in tournament

.9996^1440 = .56  (prob of no hole in one)

So 5/4 pretty much correct if 2500-1 is correct.

 

Wouldn't call it an artform tbh.

Ouch mate, you must run terribad, surely with laws oif physics, gravity and averages somewhere along the line you could have notched an Ace.

I've holed a few full shots, just not on par-threes.

I have amateur friends who have had four or five aces.

Does it pain you that you don't have one? Do you feel theres no justice in this game or it's no big deal?

Still hopeful, and still playing fairly well and hitting it close every now and again.

It's not something I think about every time I tee it up on a par-3, but I would love to get one.

i dunno about you but i am pro at darts and snooker and bowling

Played Darts pissed for first time in years last month and hit a few 140's, played golf over 1000 times and not got a hole in one :(

Try a different website.

The USBC has loads more than the PBA.

http://www.bowl.com/news/xmlburner.jsp?xa=./webapps/ROOT/news/main/data/032610900Series.xml

I likened it to a 147 because I'd guess there's a similar number of recording or authorised 147s

Thread title needs to be changed from 'settle an argument' to 'how to cause an argument'.

No it doesn't

Sigh at this thread.
I resign from it.

I predict a riot.

no you don't

Not really, according to Wiki, there's 77 recorded 147s.  On your bowling site there 15 plus my 1 makes only 16.  

Not enough love for this post on the thread.

 rotflmfao

Which would you rather fight- 1 horse sized duck, or 30 duck-sized horses?

There's still hope for me then.

menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1463785_flixton-man-82-hits-first-hole-in-one-after-70-years-of-playing-golf