blonde poker forum

Once he bets the turn I am snap folding here.  When you say he is old how old???  >75 and I would probably fold the flop tbh >60 but <75 I call and fold turn.  Age is normally a massive tell in these games.

I dunno, old is old! >30 = old!

I dunno, old is old! >30 = old!

Probably in his 60s.

I agree age is everything.

I'm not folding this ever.

If he's got the ten good luck to him.

I'm not folding this ever.

If he's got the ten good luck to him.

Fwiw this hand happened before he showed the kt bluff.

Firstly 57 is a gentleman's prime

Secondly I had no idea Jakally was 57.

When you left crying after throwing your Ipad and monte carlo trophy out of your pram he claimed he had A2.

True Story.

Lol be more ridiculous

What's ridiculous about calling with an ace and another ace?

Is it because he might have a ten?

Well there's plenty of other hands that he might have as well so I think calling is better than folding.

If you're going to fold then fold to his flop raise.

If I'm calling the flop it's because I think I'm winning and I've already decided that my stack is going in. I'm not deep enough to think otherwise.

Calling the flop with the plan that if he puts the rest of his chips in we're folding seems bad to me.

Were you calling hoping that he was going to give up on the turn and river and let you showdown against whatever he may have?

Think he was referring to your terminology.

I dunno, old is old! >30 = old!

Probably in his 60s.

I agree age is everything.

Ahem.

See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism

And in particular.....

"adultocracy" & "gerontophobia".

I deny completely any claims of ephebiphobia.

Don't correct him. Use it to your advantage and bluff him!!

I happen to know the Gentleman in question, & he told me he had complete air.  Standard "elderly gentleman" play v yoofs, imo.

OK, think it does matter TBH. Tough spot, against an old old guy (so not 30+ but 60+) I get out of the way here unless I gt the feeling he's "trying to teach you kids a lesson" which some of these guys do.

I wonder if the oldies have a pha board to discuss hands and strategy?

"So there's this young arrogant kid who thinks I'm a fish because I'm over 30 and I don't have HEM, pokertracker or an ipad........"

Wp getting him into the game too Mitch, I wondered why you were so eager to get him seated! :p

Should probably have elaborated a little but I don't think it requires much elaboration.

Just decide if he has the ten and go with it.

This decision should have been made on the flop though unless we're calling for information.

i call flop because he can be raising with worse. reevaluate turn and decide when he bets again his range changes and now decide he has Tx or 22.

But what does the Ks change for you? Other than it shows you that he's not afraid to fire a second barrel? Does him firing again really narrow his range to 10x or a FH?

I happen to know the Gentleman in question, & he told me he had complete air.  Standard "elderly gentleman" play v yoofs, imo.

I wonder if the oldies have a pha board to discuss hands and strategy?

"So there's this young arrogant kid who thinks I'm a fish because I'm over 30 and I don't have HEM, pokertracker or an ipad........"

It changes enough for me to believe his range is way smaller than otf. For me, it eliminated 88 and 99 from his range because I believed that this player would slow down with these hands on this turn, or at least consider slowing down, even if he thought for a few seconds before betting I mightve come to a different decision.

It's so ridic to say that the king changes nothing. Just because it doesn't hit his range at all and doesn't improve my hand, his range still changes when he bets the king.

So you were calling for information?

You can put some ribbons on it and say it's re-evaluating the turn if you like but that's what you've done.

I don't think the king changes a lot to be honest. If this guy's as bad as we think I'm pretty sure that once he's bet 180 on the flop his last 200's going in no matter what happens on the turn. it's not his last 200, i have 360 and he has me covered by some way. I don't think he even looked at how much I had left.

Have you considered that the king may add to the bluffs in his range. If he was bluffing the flop he can now get you to lay down JJ, QQ and any other pair that you may have hero'd with. Given his calling station image pre he can rep pretty much any Kx hand. He could even have Kx and now he's decided to shove for value.

Can you really see him giving up if he has an under pair? He's a bad player whom we're hoping to stack at some point. Bad players do bad things and one of them from what I know is deciiding that a pot is their's and going with it.

This all comes down to your perception of him. If you don't think he's capable of bluffing you should be folding the flop. If you do think he's capable of bluffing then your stack should be finding it's way in to the middle regardless of the turn.

I know you don't like simple analysis but in this case it actually is simple. it really isn't

Also be careful with your timing tells. You say that he shoved instantly which made you think he must have it. It can also mean that he's repping it and doesn't care what the turn is his stack's going in because he wants that pot. There's nothing like a good old confident all in to make the other guy think you've got a monster.

Think you're trying to give this guy too much credit Alex, by even suggesting he may think about the King being anything other than the next card to be dealt.
On the flop , he is either thinking 'I have a ten', or 'he can't have a ten'.
He isn't going to rethink this at any point unless you take the betting lead from him.

FWIW, after you had gone, and a hand was being discussed, he said 'I think you are all taking it too seriously'.

He's not wrong.

Think you're trying to give this guy too much credit Alex, by even suggesting he may think about the King being anything other than the next card to be dealt.

So you're saying he's turning his hand into a bluff? Raising the flop with 77-JJ then without a seconds thought deciding "this is a great card to rep I'm gonna try and get this kid off QQ". I just don't see it.

I possibly did make a massive mistake in folding this and he could be just mashing buttons with A2 or 66. But don't call me arrogant for claiming that this guy did not know to raise the flop with 99 then instantly decide to turn it into a bluff on the turn.

I hope that's a level. You're not seriously suggesting that it's not prudent to analyse hands in detail in order to improve when it's your livelihood?

Neil you're probably right as usual. I think I made a bad fold, but hey, I've learnt something and will hopefully make better decisions next time because of this thread :)

fwiw when people snap bet like that i always assume they are joke polarized and call, lets say he had  Tc 7c for EG, on the turn wouldn't he stop for like 10seconds and think, what if he has a better ten, what if he has KK, how much to bet - even if he had KT I think he would stop for 5 seconds and think "shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttt i got the nuts pretty much". If he just fistpump bets i think he either has TT or 22 or has already decided he is brufffffing and just doesnt care about the card or what affect it has on the hand.

I've seen hands like this live SO OFTEN where the explantion after the hand is "well i didnt put you on the TEN" with not rhyme or reason for this conclusion, but once they've decided you dont have a Ten thats that.

A lot of what is being said is true.

It's just that I find it difficult to realise straight away that the random old guy who just sat down with a bag at a deep £1/2 game is only a level 1 thinker...

I think that assuming everyone over 50 who sits at a poker table is incapable of playing the game at 'your level' whatever that may be is a mistake.

(obviously I'm not claiming to be capable of playing anywhere near that level)

Also - you play for the longterm winrate, the random old guy who sits with 'a bag' may only play occasionally. His capacity to bluff is dependent on how he sees that money and the entertainment value he derives from the game. One of the local mega-rich (yes there are some in Teesside) used to occasionally have a sit at the cash tables and would very happily spunk off £5-600 with a variety of 3rd pair calls and bad bluffs. On seeing he was beaten he just smiled and said "nice hand, well done".
The point is, that when he first appeared at the table as a random, smartly dressed middle-aged man with a stack and started getting involved the young-uns all folded lots and the regulars who already knew his style just waited and called him off.

A few people commented at the time good fold but Mitch who'd played a fair amount with him said he'd never fold DEM aces there.

I think that assuming everyone over 50 who sits at a poker table is incapable of playing the game at 'your level' whatever that may be is a mistake.

(obviously I'm not claiming to be capable of playing anywhere near that level)

Also - you play for the longterm winrate, the random old guy who sits with 'a bag' may only play occasionally. His capacity to bluff is dependent on how he sees that money and the entertainment value he derives from the game. One of the local mega-rich (yes there are some in Teesside) used to occasionally have a sit at the cash tables and would very happily spunk off £5-600 with a variety of 3rd pair calls and bad bluffs. On seeing he was beaten he just smiled and said "nice hand, well done".
The point is, that when he first appeared at the table as a random, smartly dressed middle-aged man with a stack and started getting involved the young-uns all folded lots and the regulars who already knew his style just waited and called him off.

 Never assume because that's makes an ass of u & me ...

 when you say you agree with the second paragraph do you mean you don't claim to be on that level too?



I think assuming someone is on level 1 and looking for evidence they are not is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>assuming someone is good just because he sits down with a grand.

second paragraph i agree with :)

Regretting my title of the thread now. If it had been utg 4b calling range vs a 33/23 lagtard I think Tikay would've swerved it...

In before he claims those are his favourite type of threads on the Oldies forum.  

Correct, I would have swerved it because I don't have a clue what "utg 4b calling range vs a 33/23 lagtard" even means. Old people don't bother with that stuff, which is why we they are all crap.....