blonde poker forum

£10 2 re buy tourney at local gala me and mate left in the pot and he shoves the flop laughing at me I have a flush draw I have no intention of calling but I say to dealer I ain't folding and turn my hand over ( I would never normally do this ) but its one of my best mates and he is laughing at me.
The dealer now declares my hand dead I ask for a ruling and floor declared hand dead.
The normal ruling is one orbit penalty ??

On what grounds is your hand dead ??

The dealer could have seen your actions as a call but at the very least should have asked for clarification of whether you have called or not

My Point as far as I was concerned my hand was live

DEMZ GALA RULES lol

I can give you loads of written rules saying your hand is not dead, but unfortunately each Gala has it's own house rules. If they state that your hand is dead if exposed then it is dead unfortunately. Getting Gala's rules online is redic tough though as believe it or not each Gala uses different rules lmao.

But obv dtd ukipt etc hand live one orbit penalty?

Ranges from a verbal warning to disqualification, generically most rules state the hand is live but you will receive a penalty after the hand.

On the other hand if you say that "You ain't folding" then turn your cards over after the guy has pushed. Then you should be made to call with no penalty as you have basically said you have called then flipped.

:)

Thanks rich

Lee,

Gala Leicesters rules differ from most usually due to the fact that no senior members of staff no the game very well at all.

When i dealt there we were specifically told any exposed cards = hand dead.

There is a sheet of rules oppo the tourney buy in desk check them out if u have another issue as they have to follow them.

P.S cant believe you would fold a fd!

I can confirm this is also the ruling in Nottingham Gala. I was playing in a hand where I was faced with a tough turn decision for my stack, and the player to my left was coming back from a cigarette break and as he sat down, caught a glimpse of my hand. The pit boss saw this and warned me to keep my hand very close to the felt else he would have to kill my hand. I was outraged even at the suggestion, as my cards were concealed, just not covered. It would have only been possible to see my hand were you stood directly behind me, and I had no intention of tabling it, but they were very strict and almost sadistic about this rule.

Agree this is an awful rule, and you will not find it anywhere else, but I'm afraid that's Gala for you.

Am I missing something here?

Oppo shoves the flop and you tell the dealer "I'm not folding". Surely that means you call and have turned your cards over as it's an all-in situation?

yes but as in by showing my cards saying this is not a fold

Why not?

I was a little confused by other people's reaction to this. Would be nice to get Rich to clear this one up again, though I'm sure I had a similar conversation with him once. "I'm not folding," after the bet has taken place can't be binding. He has not said "call," and he has not influenced the action. If he were to say "if you go all-in, I'm not going to fold," then this could be construed as binding. If this is incorrect, please explain why.

But "I'm not folding" after your oppo has shoved means you're calling, no?

Action was on Lee when he said "I aint folding" then flipped his cards over. As he can't raise the All-in, and he has stated that he isn't folding, then his only other option is calling, hence all-in situation where flipping the cards on their backs is the correct thing to do (no penalty).

If he had said I am not calling to an all-n and flipped his hand would be dead. If he said I am not calling and other people were to act then his options are raise or fold.

It's a positive negative if that makes sense?

There are no written rules regarding this, but we have to use some common sense or everyone would be speaking double dutch, and no one would know what the action was.

Anything else could be construed as a stroke, verbal is binding. I am not saying that my decision would be right either btw, but that IMO is the fairest ruling and that's what it's all about :)

This is what I thought.

"I'm not going to fold," would be closer. "I'm not folding," is the same as me saying right now, "I'm not clicking the 'post' button." Whether it is my intention to do so or not, I am not currently doing it. I still think "I'm not going to fold," is the same thing as, "I'm going to sign that contract." You haven't actually declared an action, and you haven't acted out of turn, so I don't see anything wrong with the verbal side of things. Only mistake is exposing your hand in a Gala cardroom.

When action is on you when you stated it, then the only reason for saying it would be to get a read or get the opposition to flip his cards first assuming you've called.

Saying it and flipping is pretty binding don't ya think?

If taken like that it sounds like something someone pulling a stroke would say TBH.

sigh, beaten to it by the mighty mr9

Well this is a bizarre situation in itself. Of course I appreciate your argument, but in this scenario it's pretty clear to me that he's confirming that the exposure of his cards is not a fold. In a normal cardroom, it's not out of the realms of sensibility to declare the hand live with the option to fold still open, obviously penalising for the intentional exposure of cards. Had the cards not been exposed, then it's way closer and I would agree that there is a case for enforcing the action to prevent angleshooting.

Completely agree that exposing both cards is bad form by the way. I'm not defending the action, I'm just a little surprised to see people expecting it to be binding.

So if it's not a fold, then it is call?

Exposing a called hand in Gala means dead then yeah :)

"My exposure of the cards is not a fold, I am still making my decision."

But you stated that you are not folding, decision made.

Let's say a player was faced with a big bet in the closing stages of a tournament and has a mountain of chips, and the only way to cut them down and count them out means that some of them will cross the betting line, and he clarifies with the dealer whilst counting out his stack that any chips that cross the line should not be considered an action, "I'm not calling." Does this mean he is bound to a raise or fold?

You could of course argue, After flipping your cards, that you could be saying "I am not folding ..... I am just trying to get a read", then it changes lol. Hand would not be declared dead but the penalty after the hand maybe disqualification ..... ya takes ya choice.

Completely different

Common sense

How so? (Want to make clear that I'm not arguing here, 100% respect the Rich Wooton.)

But you see, common sense brings me to the decision that when a player shows his cards and says "I'm not folding," that he is still intending to make a decision. Much in the same way as my other example. I feel we just sympathise with the player in the other example because he's less likely to be shooting an angle.

I gotta go will comment later

i am normally 100% against this sort of thing IE angle shooting flashing cards etc

as previously stated it was me and a mate in the hand NO ONE else ....for anyone that knows me from gala me and spen was having a laugh at the table.

when he shoves my intention whether i made this clear at the time or even posting op

i meant i was flipping my cards to get a reaction from spen i have not made a decision this (flipping my hand) is not "i am not folding" i may do depending on the reaction i get from my mate!

thanks for the comments i would never do this in a normall situation.