blonde poker forum

I thought it might be fun to do a thread where I put up some hands I thought were funny/interesting/or anything from vegas, as I'm going to be playing a shitload of live poker and live poker usually throws up some pretty hilarious spots, I might being a bit arrogant assuming anyone would give a shit lol but you never know!

Feel free to flame/berate anything posted as well!

So first hand  which was quite funny....

$10.20 and it folds to me in the CO, tight player on the btn who is distracted writing something down and loose passive players in the blinds, I go for an open with the  9s 4s (I don't usually do stuff like this fwiw, but seemed like a decent spot to open some junky suited cards) to $60.

fold fold, Big blind - who just lost a pretty retarded pot calls.

flop 853dd he chks, I bet $80, he calls. he has about $1400 back

turn 7d, he checks, I elect to bet again which may well not be the best play, but i bet $220. He calls.

River is a 9. he chks. I have some showdown value now, and tbh I think a lot of the time he just has an 8x hand or whatever, but I also thought he would have a lot of 78/89/9T hands which he cant call a river bet with, i was pretty much 100% sure he'd raise a flush draw OTF. so i went ahead and bet $480 into $720. he spends age counting chips out and then says he wants to make it $780, which ofc isn't a legal raise, he is forced to raise to $960.

I didn't think he had a flush, I didn't think he'd raise a striaght (I actually half expected him to "blocker bet" a 6 otr) and he never has 88/55/33 and doesn't raise 77 or 99 or two pairs.

So despite not being able to think of any combo's he is bluffing with, and was myself bluffing the river, I decided to call  thoughts :P

Lol lil dave yr the nuts.

Good thread idea IMO

i wonder how many fold pre posts there will be

I'm checking bEhind on the river when I get there

As for the call, that's why your Lil d

Raise pre

Preview yr posts so the HH isn't so tilting to read.

wow, new fave thread on blonde.i think pre is ok. flopis obviously ok but i think i fold turn.  3bet river?

can we have as many timing tells as possible, i really like them and think they help game flow/dynamic which is so hugely important.
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gl out there.

Not sure how you can categorise a player as 'loose passive' then be 100% sure he'd checkraise a flush draw OTF. Where do these reads even come from? Bet calling the river is insanity. Your post is about as well thought out as your line tbh.

I love you Rob, wish you're little face was here frowning at me asking me how the fuck i've ever made any money ever :P

quite a few spots today, here's one hand I think I might have misplayed....

$10/$20 nl

I am OTB playing ~$6k

I Open to $60 with  6h 6d

Folds to the BB - a confirmed Reg who has been 3betting me loads this game (think he is trying to pick on me a bit *sad face*) playing ~$6k also

He 3bets to $220. I call.

Flop ($450)  Aspades 6s Td.

He checks. This surprises me because he had appeared to be Cbetting kinda more than usual, and more the most part pretty well (he had been making hands mind) i felt for sure if he had air he'd lead this flop, which by the same logic means he'd lead a strong hand (AQ etc)

I Decide to chk back - this could be a mistake - My logic was that if I had Air, he'd prolly expect me to either fire a couple of barrels or just give it up, when i chk back I rep marginal showdown value, 88/99 9Ts (some Ax's admittedly) and some airballs - not really sure what frequency he'd exect me to bluff here, I think anything with some some equity I might dbl barrel, but he will prolly try bet for value with KK/QQ at some point in the hand, if he bets the turn I can raise and my line looks so weird that he MIGHT hero at least one bet with KK/QQ as I'm sure because of how he'd expect me to play my AIR he'd expect me to bet 66/TT/AT/A6 almost 100% OTF.

Turn ($450)  4s.

He leads for $360. Now whereas I don;t think he has a flush very often here I now don't really think I can raise, raising now I'm repping a flush and my actual hand is so under-repped that I don't really see mich merit to over-repping it, I figured he'd prolly be showing up with JJ-KK with a spade a high %. As well as this, I actually got a bit of a live read that he might have a really good hand, IDKeven really what it was, just an instinct....

River ($1170)  3c

He deliberates and bets $1,460. One thing I didn't consider OTF was that of all the "Air" hands he might have, the ones he MIGHT chk are actually spade/spade combo's, and with the Ts not being on the board there could well be a bunch of  Ts Xs (8Ts/TJs etc) he was checking the flop, to try C/R with most fold equity.With this new thought and the instinct I had on the turn about him being strong, coupled with the face he'd overbet and he didn't seem in anuy way crazy I decided to fold (shocker)

Thoughts?

(FWIW I think this is in general a bad fold, for reasons I think Rob will explain :P)

when i meant passive I meant that i didn't think the players in the blinds in this hand would EVER 3bet me light, was a justification for my kinda meh open. He'd c/r both  flush draw and a striaght draw OTF i similar spots whilst I'd been there (the striaght draw was on a two-tone board and he still c/r gets ~$1500 in) and I'd also seen him donk a set against the initiative with similar pot-2-stack. That was why I was really really sure he didn;t have a flush or a set. He could defo have had a straight though.

Brag hand kinda :P

$25/$50 NL ($100 btn ante)

I am UTG and open to $200 with Kc Qc playing ~$9k

Fishy Player (very charming, well dressed drunk man) calls UTG2 - playing $4.5k

Decent player ( a little tilted) calls in the HJ playing $10k+

BB playing ~$15k calls.

Flop ($925)  Tc 4h 4s

I chk. Whale bets $725

Decent player calls

BB folds

I Raise to $2,050.

My image at this point in the game is JOKE nitty, I have been really card dead, I have the best player on my table two to my left and the action was pretty heavy.

The fish has previously commented how tight i am, and has been doing lots of "stabbing" and the decent player knows this (giving him a reasonably diluted range OTF) and I feel like he HAS to give me credit for a hand squeezing with the fish in the pot. + I have overcards and backdoor equity should I get called, seemed like a great spot :)

Turn was checked to me, He only had $400~ back on the river. timing tells i honestly don't really know because Im not 100% convinced I was fully concentrating throughout this hand which is obv terrible and I hope the poor respected blonde member who has a piece of me out here doesn't read that lol

Probably can't comment on most hands played at this level but glglglgl mate, looking forward to reading them!

edit: though that first hand is surely a horrific river bet/call? expecting a check/min raise bluff after you've triple barreled a soaking wet board to happen like ever surely can't be correct

its live cash. stnd at 10/20 islike 50/1 online, comment away its all just fun

plus im not really looking for advice for the most part just trying to make an interesting thread

well you are right lol, but i dont think we should look at the river as a "bet call", i wasn't initially "betting to call" I expected him to raise like never so didn't really consider it too much......

I'd rather look at the two actions seperately, was it a good river bluff firstly, now he's raised can he ever have a better hand?

remember OTR he has $1200~ i bet $460 and he trys to make it $760 - why wouldn't he go all in if he had a good hand? I think betting the turn is the worst bit of the hand personally

River fold looks fine. I wouldn't check back the flop. I mean it is deceptive but so is betting and that has the advantage of making the pot larger.
The KQ hand I'm not particularly wild on and I wouldn't do it without a live read.

Yeah I mean we've all been there where someone does something live that you don't expect and you're like oh shit! But that usually means you're not playing very well/tired. I think the river is a really obvious check, and when I first read the post I honestly thought you were value betting and was going to tell you it was way too thin.

Defo overthinking the 66 hand- no need to check back flop, just fire and make pot bigger, widen ur range etc etc etc

every hand in live poker is basically a live read lol.

I reckon if i'd thought a bit more about it on the flop in the 66 hand I'd prolly have clued onto the fact that he's gonna be c/r quite a bit

http://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk/

Haha sick thread :)

Results on the 9s 4s hand please!!!

<3

9s 4s hand he declares King high, your guess is as good as mine as to his other card.

66 hand we were playing show 1 card and he showed the  3s then flashed the  Ks (nice going 3betting that 300bigs deep)

here is a hand a didn't participate in, but witnessed

$25/$50 NL ($100 BB ante)

UTG1 opens to $150, call, call from huge whale,

BTN 3bets to $1,250

Folds to the fish who calls.

Flop ($2,925)  7s 5c 3d

Fish Jams for $10,500~
3better calls.

3better has  Jd Jc

and he is VS............... Aspades 6h

Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

So this is just a brag thread?!

Ps what's wrong with 3betting k3 soooted 300bbs deep?!

<3 the suited face cards

hows it a brag thread when I leave the results out till requested :P

i mean its obv fine, it's just im folding aabout 1% of the time and now he has to play a pretty budget hand with 5.8k in stacks OOP, when I'm going to be trying to fuck with him all the time

FYP

had a really wierd hand today for several reasons.

$25/$50/$100 ROE

UTG, a really really good, but extremely aggro, and almost a bit spewy chinese guy gets dealt his hand and the  Jd gets flashed from his hand, he insists that he is keeping the card and limps, 4 others limp.

round to me in the sb, playing ~$20k I find the  Aspades Kh

- Was a bit confused at this point, firstly it seems pretty obvious that Yi (the chinese player) has JJ, or maybe Ad Jd, also with one one of the huge fish has limped and the other is in the BB -

I was pretty tempted to just make it up as the hand had trainwreck written all over it, don't know what anyone thinks of that?

I ended up squeezing the $750, which In hiensight might have been too small?

BB calls - playing ~$16k, everyone else folds.

Flop ($1,850)   Th 9h 4d

I Cbet $1,050. The fish without really missing a heartbeat makes a big pile of $100 chips and pushes them clumsily over the line, he 100% does not know how much he;s raised.
It end ups being $3,600.

He was a really "movesy" fish, loved making bluffs and big bets but was quite cautious when he had showdown value, if he flopped 2nd pair for example he'd bet once then look to check down, My Image as usual is pretty TAG, on the tighter side of TAG, I defo give him enough credit to realize I would only squeeze a really really good hand preflop in that spot but at the same time he'd defo have it in his head he'll be looking to "get me off it"

Anyone do anything else but fold, and what you think of preflop squeeze/sizing and Cbet?

lolol.

If he hadn't have overbet I'd have called for surrrrrrre, he just made it so he couldn't be value betting worse hardly ever. He basically played the whole hand like he thinks I'm fish and it cost him his river bet, i'm glad he didnt but he should have given me a bit more credit, I think he's been talking to you Keys....

Another hand from yesterday, not gonna go into my logic just gonna harvest some opinion....

$25/$50/$100 Round of Each.

Andrey (super sick high stakes player) opens to $300 (playing $30k), Btn calls

I call in the Big blind playing ~$16k with  Kc Kh 4d 7d and the fish in the straddle calls.

Flop ($925)  Kc 5d 3d.

I chk, fish chks, Andrey bets $700, I call, fish folds (sigh)

Turn ($2,325)  6d (which we LOVE)

I chk, he chks behind (sigh)

River  Th

I chk. he bets $1,650, I raise to $4,000.

Andrey notes - a super super NLHE sicko, and defo the best NL player I ever played vs, we spoken quite a bit the day before and he said professed to be kinda inexperienced in PLO (I did not tell him I played PLO exclusively online) so I we can assume he will be pretty good, read hands very well and if he does have a weakness it will prolly be in slightly over-valuing value hands, I.E value betting a bit thin etc. but can assume he'll be pretty sick at the game, no tells/reads, at this point he was breaking even, but doesn't seem to be the type to tilt off at all.

Dave hope u don't mind me asking but is this Ur roll or are u backed in these games?

dave owned ftp didnt he

I do mind a little bit, wouldnt have minded at all in private, I've always been really private about this stuff.

I dont have 100% of my action or anywhere close in games this high.

Dude Im sorry. Didn't mean anything by it. was just being nosey.

FWIW I'm enjoying reading your thought processes. Doesn't make any odd's to me whether it's 100% your action or 100% your mums lol.

no worrries - shoulda bought a piece

No Ta. Thread has put me off

are you selling??

Haha owned!

Its fine, who cares.

Potential to be greatest PHA thread ever, please keep going.

hand 1. i def squeeze pre ldo, I probably throw in a $1k chip pre.

I'd cb here most of time, common trait ive seen in higher stakes live games is fish who play passive pre can often c/r for info/protection more than they possibly should. I think I cback here as we can ave best hand and can call down on certain cards, aswell as getting to showdown for free with lots of hands where he gives up on.

I dont mind saying POT on river in hand two repping AXdxxx as I assume and if I am correct he will know we know that he shouldnt have Ad when he checks back.

A+, wuld be rubbed again :P

playe d a sick hand just now, got dealt 9s 5s....

we're OOP in the AK hand? would you c/f if you didnt cbet?

fun hand, river sizing reasoning? think it should be biiiiiiiiig unless you are playing him regularly.

agree the sizing should be bigger here. He's folding most flushes no? If he has the nut flush though imo he's calling more than 2575 more

reasoning for river sizing is that I think his range on the river is pretty much exclusively AIR and bad flushes. he has a straight pretty rarely in this spot and 55 pretty much never.

I felt that as he knows I know he never has the the  Ad  in his hand my best bet for value was just to try price him into making a bad call with a small flush, give that he knows i know he never has the nuts he might level himself into flicking it in given he's getting around 4-1, he could easily be persuaded to think I am bluffing 25% of time. Also I wondered if he might super level himself into 3betting but that is seriously unlikely.

Was a close call between this and potting, but felt pot just never get's called even though you are right that it reps a bluff better, I just think his thoughts on the river here will be that whereas I am more than capable of bluffing here he prolly has to give me credit given how little history (speshly in PLO) we have. He also prolly views me as slightly tighter than I am because the previous two sessions together I've been directly OOP to him playing NLHE, and he doesn't know that PLO is my main game. the main problem I had with the small raise is that it kinda opens my value range to potentially include the Kd and Qd flushes which should make him fold more.

IDK just felt like in this vacuum this bet might get called a touch more often.

no real play today, spent 5 hours grinding 2/5 and 5/10 at the wynn so they'd let me take some of my deposit out in cash. was very tilting lol - was down $2k if id have lost two bags in this circumstance id have been livid.

on sorry yeh

...... watchagonnadohere pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekNOw?

Dan Morgan has joined me in LV and has agreed to add his hands to this thread also!!!

i am chewing gum similar to the popcorn gif, i want moar

I think it would be better and more conducive to pha if you posted hands in individual threads. I'm probably not alone when I say I can't be bothered to read around all this clutter. Just blog the fluff or put it in a journal thread or something.

Or clearly label each hand so you know which people are referring to when they respond

defo CBA to start a journal thread, my blog is hard enough to maintain. will try label?

Hand 5 (no idea if this is hand 5 or not, but we'll go with it)

$25/$50 ($100 BB ante) NL

Folds to me in the cuttof playing $20k

I Raise to $200 with  Qs 8s

SB and BB call

Flop ($700)  Qh Js Tc

Chk. Chk I Cbet $450

SB Folds, BB (A quite tight, but obviously shrewd pro) Calls.

Turn ($1,600)  8d

BB leads $1,150 and he has ~$9,000 behind.

Thoughts?

Call. Just in case...

is this on ok Cbet with a kinda fishy player in the SB?

yeh, would check back a decent % though

i think its std b/f, he will come along alot, and they get scared t c/r these boards.

Thoughts on leading the flop?

Pleno, are my hand histories impossible to read lol cos you always mis-read the action. it goes

chk chk I bet flop, fold, BB calls.

BB leads turn, its on me facing a $1,150 bet into $1,600 with $9k effective.

yeah defo. reasons I didnt was because andrey is likely to bet for value wider IP vs the fish and I look really strong when I lead, so  will get a fold from the fish a lot and really want to keep him in, 300big deep OOP vs andrey isn't that valuable a spot.

you were discussing with alex about betting flop.

you're quite right. my bad :)

thoughts on the turn?

raiiiiiise it up.

O rly  ;whistle;

Shove turn as a merge imo

fyp.
now we have a thread with some potential. watch out Eso Kral and ZeroHero

How Fucking brutal is this hand.

$25/$50 PLO

4 Handed, UTG opens to $150, BTN makes it $500.

I flat playing ~$14k in the bb with  Kc Js Jh 9c

UTG FLATS.

Flops comes  Qh Jc 7c. ($1,525)

I chk, UTG Checks BTN bets $1,250

I pot, UTG folds, BTN re-pots etc, we get it in for $30k pot he flips over

 Ac Qc Qd Th

wonderful, 3 outs

Have to tread carfefully here, but isn't set over set fairly common in PLO? Dave'll understand I'm just being a PLO fish and not taking the piss, why's this so brutal?

But not so often that they'd also have 2 nfd vs nfd, and I'm a plo noooooob but that's pretty obv.

Brutal because he's got all his flush outs too, just a complete cooler.

Edit- tooo slow.

board: Qh Jc 7c
Hand   Equity   Wins   Ties
KcJsJh9c   39.42%   843,499   10,041
QQ**   60.58%   1,298,960   10,041



board: Qh Jc 7c
Hand   Equity   Wins   Ties
KcJsJh9c   10.98%   90   0
AcQcQsTh   89.02%   730   0


Just pretty brutal to flop the world in a 3bet pot and get it in with 10% lol. Most set over set situations won't cost me $15k, 77** on Th7c5h for example you dont go getting 300bigs in on that flop

although ofc when you get it in vs someone decent you know you're gonna be vs a good hand, so NFD/gutshot, KQT9/A, etc, didn't expect to see QQ all that often, wasn;t expecting to have him drawing dead, but was certainly expecting to be a favorite or nearing a flip at worst

Cool, nice one. Yeh don't do that again.

Had another pretty interesting hand yesterday.

$25/$50 NL ($100 BB ante)

UTG, kinda weakish reg opens off $8k to $150

Eric Lieu playing $12k peels the CO

I make it $600 OTB with  4d 3d playing ~$7k

UTG folds Eric calls.

Flop ($1,525)  3h Qd 9d (we've done well)

He chks, I bet $1,050, he calls kinda quickly.

Turn ($3,625) 4h (we've done very well lol)

he chks, we have $5,300 back.

When I bet again now I am so strong always, and his range is pretty weak and hugely 1p dominated (not many Q*'s either) seems like such a small % of my range is bet folding this turn so he is chk jamming hardly ever, what do people think is the best way to get value from this point vs a very good thinking player?

I kinda figured my options were, bet joke small, jam, chk back.

Checkign back i think is a bit budget cos he's not going to turn 88 or similar marginal 1p's into a bluff or bet it for value OTR, and he is going to chk fold close to 100% of the time with those hands OTR after I bet/chk/bet, its not a terrible line to take as a bluff in this spot I dont think but I think he'll just give me credit, and the pot2stack is prolly a bit too shallow to expect him to chk.jam anything as a bluff. The other problem is whilst I have his range totally crushed on the turn, he does have a few JT's, 7d8d etc that have decent equity and it would be burning money to let those hands realise their equity. THe only instance where checking back would do well is if he has KQ/QJ, he'll almost defo call a river bet, and might even be tempted to bet it for value, although I really really don't think he will very often.

Betting small I spose opens my range up a bit, might be betting JJ or AdKd etc for thin value or going for what should be a pretty profitable second barrel, still see it getting through a lot just because of how much stronger my range is than his, and the pot being set up for an all in on the river which he will have to fold to a very high %. Also we get a call from JT and bad flush draws will prolly fold now which is pretty acceptable, any Q* he happens to have (only really KQ and QJs) kinda has to call again, and whereas it's unlikely we could get a call from 88~ once in a while. like i say i don't think he's going to jam ever here, not even Jh Th

Jamming is a pretty interesting option, really weird and he won't be expecting it, I think this is my best chance of weaker hands, but even if he is there with 88 my lighter jams are gonna be Ah Jh, Ad Kd etc and given that I could well show up with an OP or AhQh from time to time and he's now getting a pretty bad price, I cant see him hero'ing all that often, he defo folds JT and diamonds but he also might fold something like KQ

What do you all think?

Don't like pre. Bet smaller on the flop and SPRs are prettier for bet-bet-bet with a balanced range. Now, jamming is very much an option, think it's between that and betting joke small, like $725...

Jam kid. Jam

yh i never really do this, IDK why i just felt frisssskkkkky this hand plus i don't 3bet very often and UTG opens a ton so felt like id pick it up a LOT.

I tanked for ages and jammed, he folded somewhere between all and in, closer to all I think.

I was gonna say jam too

todays edition of tilting PLO hands.

4bet pot, OTB I have  Qh Jd  9h 8d

The flop is  9s 8h 4h, the pot is roughly $5,000 and we have $25k in stacks.

This does not end well.

+1

jam, rivers gonna be dirty with this psr/specific hand/runout.

itr's checked to you?

gonna post a brag hand now.

25/50 100ante NL

(Id just lost a $30k 4bet pot with  Ad Ahrt on a blue blue blue flop vs the whales  8d 2d the very last hand)

Keith (a really really good player, has me 100% sussed, never seen him make anything but the perfect decisions vs me) opens UTG to $300 playing ~$30k

I 3et  Ac Ad (yes run better) OTB to $750 playing ~$14k. He calls.

Flop ($1,675) Kc Jc 8h

He checks, I have no idea why, maybe something to do with the fact I just got beat with aces, but I had a terrible feeling he was c/r. I chk back.

Turn ($1,675) 5s (or somehting like this)

he bets $1,200. I call.

River is a brick I forget lets say 3d ($4,075)

he chks. I chk back he has Ks Js.

I really thought he had JJ. Before he see's my cards he says, "fuck, you have ACES dnot you"

no idea how he knew that, he plays so good vs me, absolute sicko.

That's pretty fkn sick

what a thread!

may i ask a question please?

when sat in the plo games with that much wonga on the table does anyone ever have a proper spin on the last hand like you see in every casino over here at 530am? i would love to see that but its maybe more sensible at those stakes.

thank you for the little snippets of the big games.

alex

so wait..............

you stick up a post where you have AA back to back and lose 17k - and this is a brag post?!

i need to review my brags!

Gouty you don't really see it, not many peole myself included wanna spin off $5-$10k or w/e but a couple of times when the spots in the game have been complaining about being stuck $2.200 or w/e I have offered to flip  to get them out if i've won a big pot from them, its 0EV, it makes them like me and its kinda good fun.

you'd be suprised how rarely its accepted as well lol

and yes Guy BACK TO BACK ACES, and lose both, wtf ! I did manage to ship a $52k pot later in the session tho :P wiiii

Might flick a few really interesting hands up now actually...

i think people should just read your blog

very nice stuff  - i love it

Really Interesting Hand vs Eric Liu

$25/$50 PLO

Eric Liu posts $100 straddle, CO opens to $300, btn Calls.

I 3bet  Ahrt Ks Qh Js to $1,050

Eric flats the straddle, CO folds, btn calls.

Flop ($3,375)  Ad 8s 2h

I bet $2,200. Eric calls, Btn folds.

Turn ($7,775) 6h

I bet $4,800. He calls.

River ($17,375) 3d

I have $25k behind and he BARELY covers me. This is pretty fucking horrible, I have to try a) bluff him of a chop, b) chk/call or c) chk/fold

Issues I have is a) if he has 2pair, it's a pretty easy call - if he decides to jam AK** a s a bluff then I'm absolutely in a coffin ad he is more than capable, sepshly if he has a 4/5 in his hand, b) pretty sure he is sick enough to value bet any Aces up hand c) he could well turn AK** into a bluff.

Pretty fkn gross....

Another Interesting Eric Liu Hand

$25/$50 PLO

$100 stradle
I open to $300 with  Aspades Qd Td 3s Eric calls MP, BTN calls, BB calls, straddle calls.

Flop ($1,525) 3d 3h Js

chk chk I bet $800 Eric calls, all fold.

Turn ($3,125) 7c

I chk, he bets $2,800 I call

River ($8,725) 6h

I chk, he bets $8,400. I call

FOR RESULTS OF BOTH these hands please visit...
lildaveslife.blogspot.com

haha wiiiiiii racking dem hits up

Bet bigger on the turn in hand one and 12.5k otr as played. Probably fold river in hand 2. If it's hu on the flop I'd be more likely to call though.

Absolutely. It is here....

http://bit.ly/rMcodN

hand 1 I think the options are bet/call or chk/fold (so close) > bet fold > check call.

really cant decide between the two first options, may as well spoil it I decided to chk/fold for a couple of "in-game" reasons and because this in 2 orbits after the J33 hand, but i think if i didn't have those I' think you're right nd betting>checking

betting and him jamming is actually the worst spot ever.

level vs level vs level

that would be the worst

<3 this thread and <3 the blog moarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr please sir!!

This. Read your latest blog entry today as well. What a session mate. Keep it up.

Probably the first semi-interesting hand thats come up in 10 days

Playing 4 handed, another decent reg and a couple of fish. Villain is one of said fish, peeling a huge range pre, pretty much bets when checked to always but haven't seen him get to a river yet, he's only been sat for 15 hands or so.

$5/$10

Villain (Straddle) $1200
Hero (BB) $covers

Hero has  Qs Js

2 folds, Hero raises to $70, Villain calls $50

He checked his cards a couple of times and it seemed to be a pretty reluctant peel, definitely giving him a pretty weak range. Definitely wasn't a flat or 3bet decision pre, it was flat or fold.

Flop ($155)

 Qd 5s  2h

Hero checks, Villain bets $80, Hero calls

Pretty standard, he's been folding to a lot of cbets but takes the initiative if given the chance so I'm pretty much intending to check/call down at this point on such a dry board

Turn ($315)

 8d

Hero checks, Villain bets $180, Hero calls

River ($675)

 2d

Hero checks, Villain instantly says all in for $850

if yr read pre is correct if never has any pair or KQ, AQ pre so it's just 2x and bkdoor frushes. Seems like a call.

i think 15 hands isn't enough to take a non-stnd line. I'd start by betting, fish will pay you.

that said i'd probably call now you got here

Checking the flop here is NOT a non-stnd line.

what?


i'm defo 3 barreling here for value.

yeah but you are TBIB.  :)

nah, seems pretty standard.

I dunno i think betting is probably standard here or at least it is in the games i play. Im not saying checking is bad, but i wouldn't probably deviate from a bet bet bet line vs a fish until we have a solid read.

I think we just mean different things by 'standard'. I'd be betting in this spot too based on the read that he is a fish.

$10/$20 NL

4 handed.

CO opens to $80 ($6k). I flat  Ad 8h on the btn ($7k), sb calls ($10k) bb folds (nit)

Fop ($260)  Kh 8s 7d.

chk. chk. I bet $180. SB calls, CO folds.

Turn ($560) Ah

He leads for $400. I raise to $1,080 he calls.

River ($2,740)

He checks, I bet $2,100. He calls

Sb is a good, solid player, can be a touch stationy but plays pretty good and reads hands well from what Ive seen.

Do we  like this line over i) flatting turn and flatting river, ii) flatting turn and raise/folding the river, iii) raising turn and chking back river (puke)

do remember it is 4handed.

whats the river? 3b pre >>> call.

sorry edited

I know this is true in theory, but I really dont think its the best play deep 4handed live, or at least for the way I play it certainly isnt

well then id say

fold > 3bet>>>> call.

are all the mid- high stakes games short handed (3-6)?

Never folding pre here

calling is 100% fine imo, 3betting is fine, folding is shamefully nitty but fine if you wanted to, I think this is one of the fundamental differences of live cash - online cash, how much money you CAN make by peeling these spots, speshly 300bb's deep. Personally I like to peel here, sometimes I would 3bet it but as a stnd in this spot i'd need a specific reason to 3bet and peel the rest of the times. I also like to peel kJ, QJ, 89s, 77 etc, I don't like to peel hands like Q6s, 34s etc and would prolly select and hand from the initial list (A9/KJ etc) to 3bet an opener with a very low Fold to 3bet, and something like Q7s/J4s etc to 3bet someone who i think will fold to a lot of 3bets.

No 10/20 games almost always FR, 25/50 and 50/100 spends a lot fo time 5-7 handed as not always people around, but certain players usually drive the games to fill up pretty swiftly. I think in this instance it was a secondary table and 7 handed, with 3 people away for quite a while.

Villain 2 is a fish that just lost a 4k pot QQ < TT that was 4bet pre and all in on T high flop. Villain 1 has only been sat for 5 hands, I've been playing in these games for a couple of weeks and don't recognise him

$5/$10

Villain 2 (MP) $600
Hero (SB) $covers
Villain 1 (BB) $1k

Hero has  Jc Js

4 folds, Villain 1 limps, HJ raises to $40, Hero calls, Villain 2 calls, Villain 1 calls

Flop ($160)

 Ts 8d 4h

Hero bets $100, Villain 2 raises to $260, Villain 1 raises to $580 all-in, 1 fold, Back to Hero, Villain 2 has $700 behind

More interesting if Villain 2 is playing $1.5k or more but still, kind of a sigh spot

I think its actually the opposite, I think its a big mistake that people make. Sometimes trying to think too much about something makes you make a -ev decision. Thinking about it from purely a game theory stance I think calling is bad. I think there has to be a pretty big variable to make it good, but I am actualyl sturglling to find one, like for example a big squeezer in the blind, and we can call and play dep, but theres much better hands to be calling pre with. It seems a good hand to depolarize our range in this spot/game.

I am pretty sure that flatting here with A8o is not going to make you money (unless you have a specific read on the CO that you are planning to exploit postflop, and even then it is only ever going to be marginally profitable esp if either of the blinds are remotely competent squeezers). Calling with A8o is what the fish would do. And also the supposedly 'good players' who overestimate their edge and so think they can get away with playing offsuit raggy Aces because they are so much better than their opponents. I would have a pretty damn wide flatting range on the BTN here when 300bbs deep. But it would not usually include A8o.

solid points from a theoretical angle and you're both right ofc but 300big deep in a live cash game I disagree completely that we don;t make money peeling here, I dont say necessarily that be don't show a slightly higher profit from a 3bet, and there is a ton of reasons why I would 3bet. but when the guys in the blinds flick it in with J5o and 84s pretty hard to convince me we wont be winning some money here

yeh basically what i was trying to say.

We can agree to disagree Dave. And obviously we can't look at a HEM database for live poker and see whether raggy offsuit Aces are money makers in this spot, so we'll only ever be guessing. But I am pretty sure you are wrong in a practical sense, not just a theoretical sense. Having the CO open to 4x rather than 3x makes it even more difficult to turn this into a profitable spot (not that this is an unusual CO open raise size in live games of course). I really think that you are falling into the trap of overestimating your postflop edge if you think you can make up for having such a terrible hand through superior postflop play. Or maybe you are simply underestimating just how crappy a hand like A8o really is. It works neither as a good value hand postflop, nor as a good semi-bluffing hand either (mainly since it is offsuit). I would add a TON of suited stuff into your flatting range before I started adding offsuit crap.

Now if you gave specific reasons why you thought you could turn a profit flatting with A8o here then that would be different. Having a good read on/control over the CO is one reason (as long as it is not just a case of saying something non-specific like "oh I think I can outplay this guy postflop"), 'knowing' that neither blind is squeezing due to some live tell would be another, as would having psychological ascendancy/momentum on a table. This might allow you to adjust your range and play A8o for a profit. But, without any specific reason to adjust, your default should be to either 3bet or fold (3betting would be game flow/image dependent), regardless of being 300bb deep. In general, a big leak of a lot of many otherwise good players is that they call raises with far too many hands (or at least the wrong sort of hands). Partly this is through not quite understanding the true relative strength/playability of certain hands. And partly it is to do with having a little too much confidence in their ability to make up for sloppy preflop hand selection through outplaying the field postflop.

sorry to sound like a broken record but, +1.

Villain is new to the table, pretty much readless

$5/$10

Villain (UTG+1) $1100
Hero (BTN) $covers

Hero has   4s 5s

1 fold, Villain raises to $30, 4 folds, Hero calls $30, 1 fold, BB calls $20

Flop ($90)

 4c 4h 3c

BB checks, Villain bets $60, Hero raiises to $180, Villain calls

Turn ($450)

 Jd

Villain bets $200, Hero calls

Riverr ($850)

 Qd

Villain all in for $650

Re Dan's 54s hand...

Fold preflop. I know you'll hate this advice, and it's no biggy so whatever.

Flop... just flat the cbet. You should probably not have a raising range on this flop from a theory point of view, and since you are readless there is no reason to depart from theory.

Turn is weird because villain has taken a fishy out-of-tempo line. We don't have any idea what this line means from him, whether it is a ridiculous bluff or if he's simply hit the Jack after calling with overs and/or a FD and is betting cos he now has a pair. I'd probably flat since stack sizes are good for this. But I'd be calling any river.

fold pre, raise flop biggish.

one of the best reasons for flatting in THESE games is that you drag the blinds in with 78o J8o T6o, etc etc and your IP, very deep vs weaker players, not to mention how "honestly" these pots tend to play, i.e. the opener is c/f AJ on T63 and the blinds are c/calling 45s on T85, not to mention the USA way of c-betting any board with an ACE on it as the PFR and giving up once called, every player of the 3 in this hand would fit into that category so we win a bet when we flop an ace most of the time.

dont get me wrong, I dont flat here 100% i fold a decent % and 3bet decently often as well, but in an "honest" pretty passive 4handed lineup like this one I don't think I'd ever feel like we weren't gonna make decent $'s peeling here.

Im pretty tight preflop, much tighter than this conversation suggests, and there have been numerous 4handed spots where I'm folding ATo.
$80 is a totally stnd open in these games, $80 or $100 is a stnd open.

Why on earth would we fold pre?

Why should we not have a raising range on the flop? This makes no sense, we are in vegas playing live cash lets forget the 'theory point of view' and lets work out how to stack a tourist when we flop 3 of 1 rank.

We fold pre because it is not profitable to call. If we had a read on opponent then this might be different. But without a read this hand is slightly too weak to make money imo.

As regards having a raising range on this flop... actually I had misread the hh and thought it was HU on the flop not 3 handed. This changes things a little, but it is not really the point you were making - you weren't disputing theory, you were more saying "forget theory, concentrate on trying to stack the fish". So I will discuss this point (rather than the theory of why we should flat our entire continuing range on low paired flops as the preflop caller vs an EP raiser). The key thing is that it was stipulated by Dan that he was completely readless. So why do we assume villain is a tourist/fish? I guess it is a philosophy thing - I tend to assume that a player is competent until I have at least some evidence to suggest otherwise, and thus I try to balance my ranges against them until I have at least an initial read. Now maybe your philosophy is different, perhaps your default assumption is that a player is bad until proven otherwise. And thus you take generic exploitative lines against them right away. I think this is a fine way to approach things too, and I know you're not the only good player who starts off by assuming all opponents are bad until proven otherwise.

The thing is, whether the opponent turns out to be good, mediocre or terrible... we don't yet know anything about his specific tendencies and frequencies. If he is indeed bad, we don't know in what way he is bad. That's why we should follow theory. Yes, perhaps this opponent will turn out to be a complete non-believer who will call us all the way down with any pair or Ace high if we raise this flop (in which case we would be delighted to have raised the flop). On the other hand, for all we know this opponent might play super scared vs a raise on this type of flop and fold overpairs - but might make zero equity barrels on all 3 streets as a bluff if we simply flat him (in which case we'd be delighted to have flatted). The point is that we don't know what our opponent's tendencies/imbalances are so we play in the most balanced manner possible to ensure that we make at least some g-bucks unless our opponent is as balanced as we are.

We really aren't so deep though?, 60 bigs effective with opening raiser and 100bigs against a potential bb who comes along (who btw can also dominate us with lots of flush and better 4's and 5's if we are looking at it that way.

Because we sholdn't have a raising range here and becuase the guy is new to the table if we decide to raise I prefer a big raise to try and make it look like we are trying to ifnd out where we are at or/and give him some illusion that he has fold equity and decent pot equity with overs, whilst still making him either jam/fold any overpairs 66+ which we will usually jam I guess. Because we dont know his tendancies though perhaps flatting is better. We could even take a c/call lead line to try to induce some light spew.

Ok, well this is a read that you can work with... But you realise that you don't need an Ace in your hand to win the pot on many Axx flops if your opponent's are honest one-and-done types on Ace high boards? You can float a TON of flops without having hit the Ace and win most of the time when they give up on the turn if your read on how these guys play is correct. I'd generally try to have a backdoor flush draw when doing this, which is one reason why I'd much prefer to have semi interesting suited cards rather than a rag offsuit Ace.

Each live game does have it's own particular texture and flow. And obviously only you know exactly how the game is playing right at that current moment. So if you genuinely feel that you can make a profit in some way by flatting preflop here, then that is fine... it is you that is sat in the game, you that is aware of how the players are playing, what image you have etc etc. There are likely a gazillion subtle variables that you couldn't even put into words that could lead you to be able to play A8o for a profit right here right now, whereas you might not be able to play it profitably in ten minutes time. That is part of the problem with posting live poker hands of course. Responders can only give general advice based on the most obvious variables, and can't take into account all the tiny little things that can sometimes add up to swing a decision the other way.

The only further thing I would say is to warn again against a general tendency shared by so many 'good players' - which is that they are often far too loose preflop. The main way this manifests itself is that these players tend to call 3bets oop far too often. They also open in EP far too loosely. And they call raises with the wrong sort of hands (this is the point I am making re this hand). Maybe in this particular hand you were right to flat, due to any number of subtle variables. But just be aware that you may share this tendency of being a little over-optimistic about what hands can be played profitably preflop.

This is a huuuuuuge leak in every form of the game imo. Especially live. I don't know who you are or how much experience you have playing live cash but the assumption that everyone is pretty bad until they show you otherwise is the best line and its not even close imo.


When playing readless you should just go with that your experience tells you that the population tendencies are and play vs those. This is a live cash game in Vegas, an unknown player raises UTG+1 and cbets pretty big - he's unlikely to be bet/folding this flop. As Dave mentioned with his A8 hand - most people play pretty honest so I expect him to have a hand when he cbets this flop a big %age of the time and people don't like folding so I just want to make sure all the money goes in.

The game theory stuff sounds cool but when you're playing  no more than 150 hands with a random live player theres really no need to overthink these hands vs the vast majority of people. It usually just results in joke spew or big loss of value vs fish that have no idea that couldn't even spell game theory optimality let alone apply it.

It might sound simplistic but thats what the population tendencies are so just taking the most exploitative lines is gunna be the best play almost always.

Definitely +1



But I guess this means we should fold the 5 high oop pre to a 60bb stack open

Hi Dan. You do know me. I am Stuart Barnett.

I completely see your POV by the way, I just don't quite agree with it. It is a difference in approach that is all. One of the reasons I like to give players more credit than they perhaps deserve is because I feel that one of the biggest leaks amongst good poker players is arrogance and overestimating their own abilities in relation to their opponents. And it is something that I have as a natural fault too. So I go out of my way to show my opponents respect. Sometimes this might mean I make a small FTOP mistake that I wouldn't have done if I'd have just operated on the assumption that "he is crap at poker". On the other hand it helps me maintain humility and prevents me getting carried away thinking "what a massive edge I have" and thus playing hands badly through hubris.

Even if you are right (which you may well be!!), I don't think it is a huuuuuuge leak. The reason is because usually I would have at least an initial read on a player right away. It may well be only something like "he is young and looks like an online hotshot... he probably plays a bit aggressively" or "he is old and grumpy looking... he probably has something good when he bets big" or "this guy just looks like he is in stubborn mode right now and isn't folding" or whatever. It's not a great read, nor would it be guaranteed to be correct - but I might well modify my play massively just based on that read to take a generic exploitative approach vs his presumed player type. But you gave no read at all - not even a read on how the 'average player' seems to play in this game over in Vegas - so what can I do but talk about things in theoretical terms? As you know, I have played a ton live... but I have never been to Vegas so don't know how the games play there.


I see things slightly differently to you, that's all. If indeed your read that he has a strong hand (a big pair I assume) is correct then he's likely going to bet the turn too. Yes you need to fade a few flush cards of course. But what if you have got it wrong this time and he has nothing at all... well then you do best to maximise against his bluffs by repping a weak hand that he might try barrel you off. What you lose out on when a flush comes and you fail to stack an overpair you can gain back by getting him to continue bluffing when he has nothing (and in fact this is when you might be glad if a flush card comes since he could try to rep it, esp if he has one of the suit in his hand...).

Now who knows what he'll think when you raise the flop. He might think any of the following:
"wtf, this guy is not repping anything... I'll 3bet him as a bluff"
"oh no, he must have a 4 or a big pair. I'll fold my 77"
"I have AA. I don't want him to hit a flush. I am all-in."
"Why do I never hit with AK? I fold"

Since you say you have no read you have no idea what level he is thinking on and how he will react. So if you try to make an exploitative play it might work out... but it might just as easily work against you.

That's the reason for taking the theoretical line when you have no reads at all. It works out well in both ways. First it means you cannot be 'accidentally exploited' because you have balanced your ranges properly. Obviously this is not especially important in live poker, but it is a nice little extra bonus. Second - and this is the important one - most of the theoretical lines do more than just defend you... they also allow you to get the correct balance between getting value from your hands by betting/raising and getting value from bluff catching. For example, as I have said above, flatting the flop here maximises against bluffs as well as still making it likely that you will stack a big pair. Remember, if he has a big pair he will bet the turn again almost always (just got to fade the flush which might lose you your action!). Yes you will probably stack a big pair if you raise the flop. But you will probably stack a big pair anyway on most board run outs.

I got to this line 'the most balanced manner possible' and just forgot everything else you posted in your reply. If you are playing a perfectly balanced game in a live cash game you are making some monumental errors, forget all that poker tracker aggression factor tosh or whatever it is these crazy kids call it and focus on the game in hand.

Well that's a polite, friendly and constructive response. Thanks for that. Nice guy.

Well tell me why we should focus on playing a balanced game in a live cash game with people we've never played before? On the surface it seems to be a good way of destroying our hourly rate but maybe there is something i have missed?

Hider mr Barnett, post moaarr!!!! :-)

<3

I tried to explain this in a post above, but I don't think you'd have read it when you made your last response. Here is the relevant bit:


You may disagree with me. And I may be completely wrong. It would not be the first time.

As I also mentioned in the same post (not quoted), I don't worry too much about balance/GTO play either during live play. Because it is usually possible to get some sort of read on an opponent even if he has only been at the table for a few minutes. It might just be the way he dresses, or it might be some sort of spider-sense live tell thing that gives you a feeling whether he is weak or strong in a particular hand etc. Usually you only need to know where the line is so you can deliberately stray from that line to exploit an opponent. But if I don't have ANY read at all then I do not have any reason to depart from the GTO line. Fortunately the GTO lines still make money for us provided our opponent is unbalanced (unlike for example a GTO line in roshambo, which can only break even). Obviously not as much money as an exploitative line would, but how can you exploit if you don't know what you are meant to be exploiting? As I said, perhaps your opponent is the type to aggressively barrel all 3 streets as a bluff but can make some overly tight folds early in a hand when oop - in this case taking a line to 'exploit' would actually lead to his tendency to fold too much exploiting us!

Basically, Dan went out of his way to specify that he was readless. So I took this at face value and started talking theory.

Peace and love to you brother.

Fair do's i read it as read-less on a $5-$10 random in Las Vegas so ascribed him a playing style

this is right, when your playing fish you need to focus on playing exploitably as possible, you only need a sembelence of balance in online games against regs. Playing in Vegas is alot different to online games, so i think its safest to presume people aren't world-beaters until proven otherwise. Almost all the biggest online winners still playing very exploitably (folding lots to 3bets/never 4bet bluffing) but its a war of attrition whereby you only take there 2 or 2.5x raise. They crush because they make few big mistakes for stacks by spewing.

I don't disagree with what you are saying per se. I just see it slightly differently.

It is not enough to think "I'll assume he is a fish, so I will raise with my trips because that is the best way to stack a fish". Because it would not only depend on him being a fish, it would also depend on what type of fish he is. Against some fish BY FAR the best line would be to flat the flop. This would be the case if they are at all aggressive - in fact against these guys you might choose to flat in spots that you'd normally raise with against most players. I know I'm not explaining it properly... what I mean is that if we don't know what a guy's tendencies are then taking an 'exploitative line' is just as likely to backfire on us as it is to work for us.

Now fair enough we can take a generic exploitative line based on how we feel an 'average unknown player' will react. And then we just take our lumps if we end up sometimes owning ourselves by doing so. But there are two points to note on this:

1. Dan specifically said he was readless. Although I have played a huge amount of live poker, I have never played in Vegas and do not know how the average regular tends to play. Which leads me to the second point...

2. I have no reason to think that raising here is exploitatively better than flatting (which would be described as 'deliberately under-repping our hand' or 'trapping' if we did it for exploitative reasons). As I said in other posts, we are still likely to stack an overpair if we flat. Yet we are also likely to maximise against bluffs when he has whiffed overs but tries to barrel us off what probably looks to him like a 66-JJ type of hand.

Fair do's backatya :)

i was talking about my hand where the shallowist effective stack was over 300big blinds

fyp andy....any  dtd this wekend. not seen you in a while and wanted a look at your watch :)

Hi Andy

at what stakes should we stop thinking the player in seat 4 is a fish?

Stuuuuuuuuuu

Well now that you've outed yourself i'll just flame you on facebook instead :P

btw in the 54s hand the opener has 110 bigs not 60

But anyway, I see where you're coming from but imo these reasons for taking non-exploitable lines are a leak that is common in players that play live a ton. You seem to be looking for the line that gets villain to put in the greatest number of bets when really you should be looking at what makes you the most money.

Yes if we flat the flop then we keep him in the pot with his bluffs that are drawing dead but we don't even know that he's going to fire again and even if we did, its still going to be tough to get him to put another $1010 into the $210 pot with 2 streets to come with a worse hand. However if we raise the flop and he calls (which I believed he would very often, hence why I did it) then on the turn we have a $450 with $850 stacks behind so he can get it in a lot lighter - actually now we crush his get-it-in range really hard because at that point he's not folding a jack and he's still not folding overpairs.

I absolutely agree with Flushy that if for example you're only taking lines which you would also credibly take as bluffs, only value betting in spots where you would feasibly have a bluffing range etc then you're losing huge value. You've played a ton live, how many times have you been called in spots where you're never ever bluffing? The answer is probably yeah, loads, so why not do it more often?

Feel free pal :)

Yes I knew this, it is pleno1 who has got the hhs confused. I did however at first mistakenly think you were HU on the flop.

I don't think I have this leak too badly. I think the vast majority of my play is highly exploitative, probably more so than most others. I could be wrong though. Either way, I know my theory too. I definitely am not trying to get the most discrete bets out of villain, I am seeking to maximise my EV. Sometimes this means that you run the risk of failing to stack villain on some bad board run outs, but maximising EV does not necessarily mean playing so that you get his stack as often as possible. You know this of course. To be honest though pal, I would often raise myself in this spot against many opponents. But, just to remind you, you specified that you were readless. So I started by focussing on theory... and only went on to explain how the GTO line can still work to get good value out of our hand when pressed further.

But remember that he is not likely to be folding these hands on most turns/rivers either if we just flat.

I completely agree with this too! Dude... you've played with me before right?! I am the boring, old, predictable rock who 'sits and waits for Aces'! I have been called in spots where I am never bluffing so often it is untrue... which is ridiculous really considering my, shall we say, 'snug image'

I think what we all need to remember is one of the fundamental points of live poker is that pretty much every hand is played in a vacuum, with seemingly unimportant, even bizzarre stuff can have a huge inpact on how you play a specfic hand, and this makes it so hard to analyse in written format, I know myself I often dont think too much of lines like "he looked tilted" 2he'd just lost a pot" "i'd lost a big pot and looked like I was tilting" etc but they are hugely relevant and sometimes a spot crops up where you just think something, I have loads of spots where something just strikes me about a hand, I don't really know exactly what it is most of the time but from all my experience playing live cash games and the endless more information you have available to you, I find myself making non-stnd plays/calls/raises etc but something about the way the hand has gone down and the way the game is flowing makes me feel like its the best play.

and I'm right about stuff a pretty high% of the time.

Was going to post a few days ago along the lines that dave just did. The games here play a fair bit differently to the games in the UK and actually posting hands for the purpose of analysis is pretty fruitless when actually there are far more factors at play than could be articulated

Being 'readless' is still actually quite a lot of information, just not necessarily enough individual points to give a clear picture. Even in the first few hands we know what the guy has been saying, how much he bought in for, what colour players card he has (indicating whether he's a punter in the pit or not), what he's wearing, how old he is, how he handles his chips, what he's drinking, if he's been playing at another table previously and the list goes on and on.

I completely agree with Dave and Dan's posts above ^^

having said all this there is still plenty of analysis to be done on live hands are bizarre spots tend to cropup more often and basic fundamentals are if anything way more imortant, like the A8 hand for example, what i wanted peoples thoughts on was the turn raise, and wether people would be more inclined to call the trn donk, call the river bet, or call turn raise river, or raise turn bet river or even if anyone would consider raising turn and chking back the river. I genuinely had little real idea of what a turn donk ment, although i remember being under the impression at the time this was more to be a made hand than a semi-bluff with this player, 8h 9h the only REALsemibluff, he also wasnt really the type to "float" oop either so could prolly give him credit for some sort of something OTF, is my hand strong enough to raise or do i effectivley have a super strong bluff catcher....even tho he could defo vb worse

25/50 maybe higher

If you're semi reg at a place and someone you don recognise is playing 25/50+ then you can DEFO assume he's a fish imo

if you see a guy in seat 4 is 23ish and wearing a plain blue hoody with simple iphone headphones we still labelling him as a fish?

nope.

If he is 23ish though and well dressed we can pretty much assume he is.

The amount of times ive seen a young kid in a game in vegas and assumed he is good to find out he is ridic bad is untrue, it's so tilting when i think how much i've lost thinking they are good.

Intteresting. Do you think it would be more/less than thinking everybody is a huge whale?

from my experience in the summer there were a lot of online guys who played so budget in live cash games it was ridic, the main reason i found this bad was initially I was trying to think on higher levels vs them when it just wasnt needed, if I assumed everyone was terrible then you tend to just take really standard lines vs them, which even though are pretty exploitable can never be that expensive over a small sample espcially as if they are very good they will prolly treat you with the same caution

+1milli.

nice posts honeybadger.

dave whats ur top 5 restaurants in leeds?

erm pretty tough cos depends on my mood

Anthonys
China Latino
Souz Le Nez
Gauchos/blackhouse (i couldnt pick, prolly gauchos)
and there is defo somewhere sick im forgetting :(

imo souz le nez and gauchos are not as good as san pietro paul (sorry i cant do the <<<<< or >>>>> thing thats in vogue). Anthonys is comparable but the cost is a lot higher.

I endorse this list. Glad to see Wasabi didn't make it on there, v overrated imo. Honourable mention for Bar & Grill as well.

Where's that? I googled it but I'm not getting anything.

yh Bar and Grill excellent, it's a little too "chainy" to ever be on the top, but food/service/atmosphere is awesome in there.
and agree r.e Wasabi, its great for big groups, the food is nice and its good fun but it's not a "top" restauraant imo

and yh Jason I never heard of tht place either?? myself and rob have done pretty heavy research into Leeds restaurants, so much that about 2 years ago they wanted us to be mystery diners, in fact they basically begged us to do it but we were obv far too busy....or at least i think that's what happened....

Jesus- move to London asap :)

Londons a different gravy altogether.
Www.sanpietro.uk.com is a just a place in scunny that Paul can compare those places to.

NEVER!

You should come up for the office christmas party this year. best office party of the year by a mile imo :)

I feel a PHA coming along shortly.

And when I say shortly I meant within 6 months.

You'll need a bucket if Dave posts any of his most recent Vegas hands.

well he could rewrite his top 5 restaurants in Leeds now Anthony's has gone bust

I know, fucking devastating!

Just for you Gouty!

$100.$200
I open to 600 with  Ad Ac Jd 9c get 3bet to $2k, overcalled from the SB I make it $8k, call, allin from the SB for $25k I'm all in for $27k and called.

I'm against  Aspades Ahrt 9s 3s and  Jc  9h 7c 5c (well done) and we do not win!

(this ones potentiall a bit spew)

50/1/2 Open to $600 3bet to $2100 from a guy going mental (got 15k in with AJ45ddd earlier) so i pot with  Ad Kh Qd Th call from opener jam from 3better for 20k im all in covering them both and the original opener calls off 25k

I'm against really shit AA's and 89TJ ds who wins both runs.

Those two biggest pots of the trip.

<3 J975 though. that's bants, kudos to him.

they probably didn't budget for you lot being away from home

Where are we gonna have the office Xmas party now? No thought for us in all this.

I almost don't believe this; it can't be possible to lose with the two best poker starting hands; AA and J9 AND both being suited. Just ask railtard. You even had the green ones and those NEVER lose!

you're right, I've e-mailed support and my 27 grand should be getting refunded soon.

Oh dear. Not what I was hoping for. What a game though!

If you manage to get it in real bad and suck out I want to know about it.

Actually the only all in pot i remember winning was a suckout lol I got AKQ9 in on Q98dd vs KJT*dd and managed to make 2 full houses lol, was pretty small pot IIRC for the game I was playing at the time

What a roller coaster ride. Gl for the rest of your trip Lil Dave <3

Not a rub....

but what kind of hands could/would and should we be committing our chips with before the community cards are out in 4 card nlhe?

Likely % chances of winning? (Vs another 'normal' get it in range....)

obviously depends on the situation and the player. In the hand you're obviously refering to I though tthe guy ws ready to go berserk preflop hence why i got AKQTds in vs him. Chufty was at the table and had played a bit with this guy also thought he was Aces and Aces only there. He had aces so its very possible that I mis-read the hand and made a bad play

Hope your luck change soon mate . Very ul in lots of hands here .

Yeah. This thread needs a LilD sucks out hand in here to swing the old karma.