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2/5 live cash at DTD. Hero is playing £900 and is in the big blind.

Ajit raises utg to £20, Tom giveyourcash calls, one other caller, I call in the big blind with Kd 9d

Flop (£80)

Qd Td 7s

I donk for £55, Ajit calls, Tom raises to I think £135 ish. Back on me.

Fairly standard spot to lead I think, I'd lead with all sets, 2 pairs, and decent draws. Sometimes some AJ, J9 gutshots with overs/ bd flush draws as well depending on how the table is playing/ gameflow, occasionally with Qx as well.

Ajit could be flatting a whole bunch of things. Qx, Tx, over pairs, all draws.

Tom has a really strong range here, minimum AQ imo, two pairs, sets and combo draws.

Are we happy raise/getting it in here is my question? Happy could be the wrong word, should we get it in here as played?

Board: Qd Td 7s
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    45.236%     45.17%    00.06%             19230           27.00   { Kd9d }
Hand 1:    54.764%     54.70%    00.06%             23286           27.00   { QQ+, TT, 77, AQs, AdJd, QTs, Jd8d, T7s, 9d8d, AQo, QTo }

This is vs the range I'll get it in against.

Ajit folds almost everything when I 3b the flop. Tom probably raise/getting it in most of the time, but would probably fold AQ and maybe T7 so take down ~300ish of dead money when everyone folds.

Can't see any other option here?

out of interest, do u have a 3b range pre here? if so, whats the bluff part made out of?

how deep is tom? you can get put in a box here by a really good villain deep, a donking range can def get in trouble (just looking at value combos you will be willing to get in/ how turn will be awkward).

pretty happy to c/c as a standard 200beebs eff..

important to know stack sizes of ajit and tom for starters. let's say they have £900+.

2 things i'd instantly assume are that ajit isn't slowplaying and that tom has very little fold equity on this board (i think you've overestimated how frequently he's raise/folding here, particularly with AQ or T7).

given this and that it's a small raise, i don't mind you flatting. we don't have the nfd and end up getting it in badly vs this and you may also fold out any worse fds by 3betting the flop - especially ones in ajit's range.

so if we pick up the dead money here almost never, raise/calling it off only achieves getting in an unfavourable flipping situation. calling gives ajit (and, less so, tom) the chance to get involved with hands that have reverse-implied odds vs yours. if tom's raise had been larger i'd be more inclined to stack off now (folding's boring so let's ignore that).

overall though, can't go too wrong with gambling vs a strong range off the flop given our hand.

cant remember how deep tom was actually, obv i wouldve known at the time lol

ajit had the world covered playing about 5k

slide and pray.

Not a fan of leading here against a couple of players that aren't fans of the fold button (for different reasons obv).

The downside to c/c is obv that when you brick you can only really represent a v. thin value range as bluffs on later streets and probably won't be given much credit. I don't think you should put too much weight on that though given your laggy image. I don't know how good this Ajit guy is but its definitely possible that your flop line factors very little into his turn/river decisions and c/c is the nut play vs tom

Not familiar with the our image/overall dynamics at a 2/5 table, but I do know that Ajit is basically terrible. You know that and so does villain. Basically Ajit is going to keep piling money into the pot however you play this hand, but it's crucial that we take a good line versus Tom.

c/c for me. did ajit actually fold on the flop? someone who aint a fan of folding sat with £5k makes me cautious, and someone as good as Tom raising your bet to £135 with his extensive knowledge of both his opponents makes me vary suspitious of the whole situation. err sure this is what sean says also

In your calcs he can't have  8d 9d.........you have a blocker to this.......
Apart from that getting in 180 bb with a non nutted draw v a tight player is usually a bad idea - you need him to be folding quite a bit here and by the sounds of it he prob isn't folding that often.

Also wot about  7dXd and  AdXd hands?

make it 250 so Ajit calls and overlays the pot for us, call when tom jams, or if they both flat jam any non pairing turncard.

I think c/r is > c/c personally, not a huge fan of donking in thid SPECIFIC spot cos you can be in a complete coffin 3way OTT if we brick

I would make it like 350 personally. we surely cannot ever get away from this as played? I would have prefered check call in this specific spot but as played we surely have to get this in because as you say we are repping super strong here. People should be able to fold 1 pair hands we are marginal against.

I think what we're repping is kind of irrelevant, I just want Ajit to overcall and give us overlay, I think he's more likely yo call 250 than 350 but if we have small fold equity vs Tom's range I think its kind of a mute point, I always feel weak c/c in these spots because our equity is so strong on the flop but venerable to a lot of turncards, id rather get it in "good" and realize my flop equity than be c/f the turn ever

Pretty sure I am flatting here to keep Ajit in the pot 100% of the time.

The number of hands with ridic reverse implied odds vs our hand here which he is not folding after we flat makes it not that close imo.
He calls (or sometimes even shoves here) with  8d Jd,  7d 8d,  Jd 7d, 7d 6d, 7d 5d, flats with 8x9x, Jx9x, JxKx, some Qx hands possibly.
Think he stacks off a decent % if he makes straights, all the time if he has lower FDs... but he does like to spaz out somtimes with hands with poor equity vs us here if we flat.

I agree this isn't a spot I think Tom is raising with anything other than v.strong made/nutted drawing/combo draw hands, which will not be folding to 3-bets here, so if we 3-bet here we are pretty much getting it in vs his range. Probs a fairly neutral EV spot to get it in there, but imo considerably +EV to keep Ajit in.... it seems like Ajit folds all his 1-pair hands, some if not all his lower FDs and generally all of the range we want him to be keeping hold of even if we 3b small.

doesnt seen like the guy who 4bet jams Ahigh on a flop will bbe folding 5d6d to a small flop 3bet here

Possibly. Ajit's play fluctuates massively day to day. Some days you know he will be peeling a 3b on this flop ridic wide, other days he will fold  7dXd in this spot. Pretty important factor in this decision imo... he is improving (slightly... with stormy patches)

yh your right 100% Tom r.e mood I think thats a crucial factor in a vacuum flop decision

Thanks for responses chaps.

To summarise, don't donk in this spot ever?

As played, raise really small to keep Ajit in, and just get it in?

I did that, I made it 280 I think and before I knew it Ajit had shoved in 2grands worth of pink chips. Tom folded.

And our worst nightmares came to life when Ajit revealed the disastrous Ad Jd.

Ran it twice, he hit a king both runs :(

I think you played this hand well tbh, I think tho that I agree donking isnt great here, not with this specific hand vs these specific oppo's

amd seriously FYL with the stacks and action i think this is a pretty genuine cooler

Ikr! I used to run like dave ;)

For everyone's records I had  Aspades  Qs and was raising to sigh get it run it twice in vs Alex but obviously was hoping for an alex fold and an ajit call.

 990  games     0.005 secs   198,000  games/sec

Board: Qd Td 7s
Dead:  

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    52.626%     52.63%    00.00%               521            0.00   { Kd9d }
Hand 1:    47.374%     47.37%    00.00%               469            0.00   { AsQs }


Knowing the hands I obv should have called the shove and in fact I snap folded without thinking about the possibility of two combos (steady mitch I mean the draws not the meals)


 903  games     0.005 secs   180,600  games/sec

Board: Qd Td 7s
Dead:  

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    10.631%     10.63%    00.00%                96            0.00   { Kd9d }
Hand 1:    48.837%     48.39%    00.44%               437            4.00   { AsQs }
Hand 2:    40.532%     40.09%    00.44%               362            4.00   { AdJd }

Pretty sick to be flipping getting 2-1. Wish I'd thought about it longer.

Edit : except I would've lost so obv I made the correct fold ;)

Personally I think bet/call is the obvious best line on the flop considering we all agree we have close to zero fold equity and the logic for 3betting the flop is based on such a precarious upside-down pyramid of assumptions it's just massive FPS spew tbh, but maybe that's just me.

<3

Haha was just going to post same, keep posting Keys plzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

too good.

We only realize we have zero fold equity once we've been raised though.