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Poker Forums => The Rail => Topic started by: mronetime on February 13, 2012, 03:28:40 PM



Title: under-raise
Post by: mronetime on February 13, 2012, 03:28:40 PM
I am trying to clear up something that happened in our poker league on thursday, and I wondered if anyone had the correct and exactly ruling for a under-raise so I can print it off and take with me this week.

I have searched the net and cant find it explained very clearly

Many thanks


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: outragous76 on February 13, 2012, 03:32:14 PM
well its going to depend on house rules so something tells me unless it was a significant and obvious underaise (all in for eg) then there will be several answers


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: TightEnd on February 13, 2012, 03:36:36 PM
I am trying to clear up something that happened in our poker league on thursday, and I wondered if anyone had the correct and exactly ruling for a under-raise so I can print it off and take with me this week.

I have searched the net and cant find it explained very clearly

Many thanks

There is no one set of poker rules, "it depends" is the answer on what rules you are using



Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: gatso on February 13, 2012, 03:37:09 PM
question needs to be a lot less vague. are you talking about cash/tourney/all in/ reopening betting/whatever

give us the situation


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: mronetime on February 13, 2012, 03:45:05 PM
It was a tourney

Player a calls the bb (1k) next player b goes all in for 1650 player c then calls the all in the player in the bb folds and player a tries to raise rather than call.

Is it correct player a can only call?


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: outragous76 on February 13, 2012, 03:49:16 PM
It was a tourney

Player a calls the bb (1k) next player b goes all in for 1650 player c then calls the all in the player in the bb folds and player a tries to raise rather than call.

Is it correct player a can only call?

haha - terrible amounts involved to get a straight answer im afraid!

What is considered to be a minimum opening raise in your game at this blind level? If the minimum opening raise is 2k, then player A can only call. If teh minimum open is to 1500 then player A can do as he pleases as the 1650 bet did not close the action (ie it wasnt an under-raise)



Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: tikay on February 13, 2012, 03:49:21 PM
It was a tourney

Player a calls the bb (1k) next player b goes all in for 1650 player c then calls the all in the player in the bb folds and player a tries to raise rather than call.

Is it correct player a can only call?

The BB folded for 650? Are you sure?


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: outragous76 on February 13, 2012, 03:50:08 PM
It was a tourney

Player a calls the bb (1k) next player b goes all in for 1650 player c then calls the all in the player in the bb folds and player a tries to raise rather than call.

Is it correct player a can only call?

The BB folded for 650?

not terrible if he thinks the action isnt closed! This will no doubt add to the controversy


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: tikay on February 13, 2012, 03:51:12 PM
It was a tourney

Player a calls the bb (1k) next player b goes all in for 1650 player c then calls the all in the player in the bb folds and player a tries to raise rather than call.

Is it correct player a can only call?

The BB folded for 650?

not terrible if he thinks the action isnt closed! This will no doubt add to the controversy

Oh, I see. I had assumed the action was closed, tbh.

I shall depart, these things hurt my head.


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: mronetime on February 13, 2012, 04:16:47 PM
Min raise would be 2k

ha ha, the bb did fold for 650, he is the tighest player known to man!!!

I wasnt in the hand myself but I came back from the toilet to a heated discussion as player a was told he could only call. is this correct?


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: gatso on February 13, 2012, 04:17:33 PM
A can't raise. the rule you want from robert's rules is

Quote
An under-raise happens when a player goes all in and in doing so has raised the bet but not by the full
amount necessary. When this happens the betting becomes ‘locked’. Any players that have already
acted in the hand (called, checked, bet etc) may not re-raise. Any players that have not yet acted may
raise as normal if they wish


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: TightEnd on February 13, 2012, 04:17:43 PM
Min raise would be 2k

ha ha, the bb did fold for 650, he is the tighest player known to man!!!

I wasnt in the hand myself but I came back from the toilet to a heated discussion as player a was told he could only call. is this correct?

Yes,in this instance



Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: mronetime on February 13, 2012, 04:28:07 PM
A can't raise. the rule you want from robert's rules is

Quote
An under-raise happens when a player goes all in and in doing so has raised the bet but not by the full
amount necessary. When this happens the betting becomes ‘locked’. Any players that have already
acted in the hand (called, checked, bet etc) may not re-raise. Any players that have not yet acted may
raise as normal if they wish



Thanks for that I will print that of to show them on thursday


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: Ironside on February 13, 2012, 04:30:41 PM
i remember having to phone redtooth up once after a reraise in a pot of 1bb after a guy had open raised to 3xbb
so betting was

sb 25
bb 50
OR 150
3bet 200

redtooth claimed that they allow this in there rules to keep things simple
so as this is a pub league anything is possible on what counts as an underraise and if it closes the action


i can also remember somewhere cant remember where that it didnt close the betting if underraise was over 50% of the orginal bet
so if blinds were 1/2k

sb 1k
bb 2k
or 6k

although the minimum bet is now 10k an all in underraise of 8k+ would reopen the betting


its all confusing having no set rules


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: SuuPRlim on February 13, 2012, 04:46:01 PM
A can't raise. the rule you want from robert's rules is

Quote
An under-raise happens when a player goes all in and in doing so has raised the bet but not by the full
amount necessary. When this happens the betting becomes ‘locked’. Any players that have already
acted in the hand (called, checked, bet etc) may not re-raise. Any players that have not yet acted may
raise as normal if they wish

perfect :)

the minimum raise in any situation is always the the amount raised to-previous call. for example

at blind level 100/200

player A bets 600, player B raises to 1600, back to player A, the minimum raise he can make now is to 2,600

600 with 1000 with 1000.

if player A in fact decides to raise to 3000, Player B's minimum raise is  to... 4,600

600, with 1000, with 1400, with 1400 = 4,600.


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: gatso on February 13, 2012, 04:51:27 PM

i can also remember somewhere cant remember where that it didnt close the betting if underraise was over 50% of the orginal bet


50% rule is for fixed limit. <50% is an underraise, >50% is a full raise

anything <100% is an underraise in pl and nl


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: Ironside on February 13, 2012, 04:54:39 PM

i can also remember somewhere cant remember where that it didnt close the betting if underraise was over 50% of the orginal bet


50% rule is for fixed limit. <50% is an underraise, >50% is a full raise

anything <100% is an underraise in pl and nl

yeah cant remember where it was it was in my early days of playing that gave that ruling for a NLHE comp though


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: smashedagain on February 13, 2012, 04:54:50 PM
A can't raise. the rule you want from robert's rules is

Quote
An under-raise happens when a player goes all in and in doing so has raised the bet but not by the full
amount necessary. When this happens the betting becomes ‘locked’. Any players that have already
acted in the hand (called, checked, bet etc) may not re-raise. Any players that have not yet acted may
raise as normal if they wish

perfect :)

the minimum raise in any situation is always the the amount raised to-previous call. for example

at blind level 100/200

player A bets 600, player B raises to 1600, back to player A, the minimum raise he can make now is to 2,600

600 with 1000 with 1000.

if player A in fact decides to raise to 3000, Player B's minimum raise is  to... 4,600

600, with 1000, with 1400, with 1400 = 4,600.
Not always the case lildave. i remember Vicky Coren and the late George Geary coming to blows in the first Ukipt season at G in Manchester. iirc G casino rules said the raise had to be min twice the previous bet as opposed to the "with" rule that is most commonly used. As it was A ukipt tourney Vicky was given the nod eventually but she had to go above the TD who gave the original ruling to George and the double the raise rule.


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: mronetime on February 13, 2012, 05:08:09 PM
A can't raise. the rule you want from robert's rules is

Quote
An under-raise happens when a player goes all in and in doing so has raised the bet but not by the full
amount necessary. When this happens the betting becomes ‘locked’. Any players that have already
acted in the hand (called, checked, bet etc) may not re-raise. Any players that have not yet acted may
raise as normal if they wish


Just to get this 100% right, player a could only call as player c only called and the bb folded? if player c or bb raised could player a now re-raise?

 


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: gatso on February 13, 2012, 05:11:25 PM
yes. if C or bb raise that would reopen the betting so A would have all options again


Title: Re: under-raise
Post by: mronetime on February 13, 2012, 05:12:58 PM
yes. if C or bb raise that would reopen the betting so A would have all options again

Great stuff, thats How I understood the rule in this case so just wanted make sure I was correct.