blonde poker forum

So, a hand came up last night on a 50/1 table at dtd where I've shoved the river and a guy is debating a decision for a £350 pot.

I played the hand so goofy I understand why he was almost 4 minutes into the tank (was glancing at the tourney clock), anyway at this point someone calls the clock on the guy, the dealer (Scott iirc?) said you can't, anyway a small discussion later and the clock is called and he folds 20 seconds later.

Part of me wanted to object to him calling the clock, but having severe poker face on I just sat and stared until he made his decision.

Thoughts? Personally I think it's bad etiquette to call the clock on someone with an obvious decision in a cash game where the blinds don't increase.

In a tournament, fair enough.

In a cash game, if a guy is taking too long to make a decision, theres nothing stopping you from getting up and going from a walk. I personally wouldnt allow someone to call a clock in a cash game without the person in the hands say so.

Completely disagree that you think it is OK in a tourney. The only caveat I would add, is if someone has quite clearly been stalling to run up the blinds (for whatever reason).

If you arent in a hand you should stfu! Just leave the table if it irritates you.

Most people in a deep tank have a genuinely tough decision. Just be quiet, let them think it through and realise that one day it will be you.

I actually get more tilted when I am the shover and my villain is in the tank and a 3rd party calls the clock! Why would they do it. They have no information on either hand. Its just because they are impatient. And if they are short, well they have had plenty time to win chips before now. If you play short stack ninja, accept its gonna happen from time to time.

and just incase we get into the "what is a tough decision" debate, Ill just leave this here

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0b6DMGExKo

Completely disagree with this.  It's my time being wasted.  What exactly is being thought about for five minutes?

Play more and find out

I wish more people did it in tournaments, stop idiots from wasting my time

That said, if we are looking for solutions, I love the idea of the bigger the pot, the longer you get!

Dont get me wrong, if its a decision ofr 20bbs, then gtfo and get your money in, but if its a 200bb pot in a tourney (when ave is like 30bbs), and the villain has taken a strange line and is repping 1 hand then fair enough IMO

Guy, the point Im making is, in a cash game, someone taking 5 minutes to make a decision doesn't directly affect you half as much. If someone takes 5 minutes in a tournament, especially when deep, it can cripple you.

Bring in speed poker imo. I think the longest Iv EVER thought was 2-3 mins

The type of person who gets frustrated in a tourney will get frustrated at cash, they just wanna be playing

I agree that people tanking over decisions can get silly. I once saw a guy tank for 5 mins with top 2 pair (with 2 all ins ahead) when he had 2k back and the pot was >30k (he folded). Also nonsense tanking over whether to call with AK for 20bbs - that kind of thing. I am all for stopping that.

But there are times (ive probably tanked 4 times ever), when it is necessary. As an example that lots of people may remember  - Triggs QQ hand posted in PHA last year. If that was live and in the early stages of a 10k MTT - and he believes the Villain has 1 hand - he has the right to tank.

Just because you are short and not in a hand does not give you the right to call a clock. Its your fault you are short. Steve Holden did it to me on the pure bubble of a big tourney and I could have throttled him. There was no way the villain was talking himself into folding (he didnt have a fold button), and because Steve was short he didnt want the clock to run down. We what about my right to try and double thru?

Calling clock is fine. Not a breach of etiquette, especially in 5-10 minute hands. If poker is what you do for a living, I'm sure you'd like more than 6 to 12 opportunities to make money per hour. Have had the clock called on me once in a cash game before and I completely understood.

Nick, I witnessed your particular hand. It was a pretty weird hand and given what villain was tanking with, I understand why he didn't want to move too hastily, but it's hard to begrudge a third party clock decision when there's one table open and the hand has lasted as long as it did.

Also, pretty ignorant to say "it's your fault you're short," but I can understand in certain spots, eg pure bubble, 5x ave pots, 5BI pots etc it's appropriate to naturally allow more time. There is an opportunity to speak up when the floor arrives, they will normally ask something along the lines of "who has the clock been called on and have they had an appropriate amount of time/"

/Agree that's why I didn't call the clock on him. Just wanted other points of view I guess.

My opinion is that if you're taking too long EVERY hand, then sure, call the clock. But afaik this is the first time I've ever seen this villain tank for over 30 secs so I gave him the time to make a decision.

Guy you must be levelling here.

There's so many people who take far too long over a decision. The rule is there. It's a legitimate one therefore it can be used. I tend not to use it but if others wish to after someone is taking ages and ages then it's their right.

Maybe when you bluff you should factor in that someone may call clock? You can take these arguments to the nth degree. If your bluff didn't get through don't blame the guy who called clock.

One thing I do find strange is that whether the clock is 20 mins or 1 hour people seem to allow the same amount of time. Ie: Your hand will be dead after a min. Surely the time you're allowed to tank and the time you get to make a decision should be in proportion to the clock?

I've called the clock on quite a few people in tournaments before. I don't think it's bad etiquette and it's usually when I'm short or its a short clock, or someone is taking a long time over a really basic decision. It's totally fine imo as long as a reasonable amount of time has been taken. Interesting idea about changing the clock time depending on the length of the blind levels. No good reason why not imo, probably just hasn't been thought of by the right people?

Almost never called the clock in a cash game but time is less important in a cash game, I mean, even if you won at 50bb/100 in a cash game, that hand taking ages probably costs you like a small blind or something ridiculous. You can go for a wander and take a break. No need to get stressed about it. Also, it often pisses the person off and it's not a good idea to piss off ppl in cash games - They're your customers, be nice to them :)

The way I see it is if your in a cash game and NOT in the hand keep out of it, no clock no time wasted, your money is not in the pot or you have given up hope on getting your money back by folding so you have no right to call it.

Now if it's an mtt then that's diff, if the player is slowing down the game on every hand and is doing it for let's say face time (not with a really hard one to think about) then god yes call a clock on them! Keep calling the clock and then the TD might figger out something is going on and have words with the player but if it's there first time in the tank or the hand is a really funky one then let them think. How would you like it if someone did it to you???

I think I have been clear, but I'm talking about one off genuinely tough decisions. People not in the hand should not be calling the clock.

I have called for a clock once, and that was because the guy asked me to.

Yeah I was dealing that.....

I was trained by Mark and I was told that clock can't be called in cash. But yes I still called floor for the ruling.
As for the lad taking so long to call, it was a pretty active board and I can see why it was taking so long. The player who called clock had actually called clock several times in the £50 while I was dealing to him. Take that how you will.

it one thing i never done and iv been playing poker for over 10years

It all just boils down to common sense imo.

I have never personally called the clock on anyone, but I would be far more inclined to call the clock on someone in a tournament than in a cash game. I can't really imagine calling the clock on someone and not being in the hand, seems kinda douchey to me. If someone was tanking over a bowl decision in a cash game, I would be tempted.

For large money calls I would never call a clock on someone in any circumstances (esp if you don't know how much that call may mean to that individual).

Then how do you define large money?

I've seen ppl take 5mins+ over £15 bets and snap call £1k with bottom pair.

You sure he taught you that?

Clock can be called, however it is rare and bad form unless it is persistent tanking. A supervisor will usually note the clock after has been called then use their own discretion on when the countdown starts.

Yeah Rich. His words were pretty much, "In cash its the players money and the players time. They can pretty much do anything apart from the obvious, i.e string bet and what not"

He also taught us that DEALERS can call clock. It was pretty embarrasing when I did it. But a few on my old training course can back that up as I asked around.

Get out of town, no way did he do this .... we spoke about it many times and we both face palmed when it was done. I am not calling you a liar btw but maybe you misheard :/

LOOOOOOOOOOOL  at dealers calling the clock!!!

Generally you can tell, if they pull up with 100bb and play like a nit and take ages over a 50bb shove or sometihng, clearly it matters to  them, but if its someone like you who is considerably richer than youw, obv it matters less. Any pots over say 400bb total is large enough to warrent some thought in a tough spot.

Calling the clock on someone is defo not the right thing to do in most situations. But as soon as someone takes 5 minutes you should be allowed to fart in their faces.

anyone sat at the table can call the clock on anyone at anytime, it is there right to do so.

in high stakes live games it's considered pretty form to clock anyone (I've prolly seen it done 3 or 4 time - once today as it happens!) in those games tho there is a lot less pointless stalling and people genuinely take the time they need most of the time, most people just wanna keep the game going.

in the lower stakes though people consistently take far far too long over every decision, regardless of the pot size (as smaller pots still sometimes have legitimately difficult decisions) idk if it's an attention thing or just cos they've seen hellmuth tank for 40minutes with AJo preflop for $200k on HSP or whatever but it's really fucking tilting.

I think it should just boil down to judgement over whether the player is deliberately taking too long or actually needs the time, I think calling a clock because you're short or you're stuck big in a cash game ins't in the spirit of the game. If someone if using the time properly fair enough, if he is wasting time then the clock should be called.

Played a hand at the Vic before (1/3) that went roughly as follows... We are playing £675, villain covers.

Limp, limp, villain limps, I limp co (2d 6d), btn raises to 15, all call.

Flop (75): 4d 7d  Td

Checks to raiser who bets 25.
Folds, folds, villain raises to 75.
I 3bet to 175.
OR folds.
Villain 4bets all in so c£475 to call.

Now....the game to this point has been impossibly tight. Chap (not in the hand) who has been playing so nitty its untrue, after about 90secs asks for a clock.

I mean really? What a c(l)ock. I told him as much after the hand as well.

(in before cool story bro, flop the nuts more often, play worse etc)

Once someone has taken five minutes and they are umming and arring when it is pretty clear they are never calling and have a hand they don't want to pass like aces but know they are gonna then ofc I can call clock. Why should this guy waste my time and bore me? We came to play poker; not watch him think when the decision is plainly obvious. I won't call the clock within reason if it is a genuine tough decision but when they do it every time I feel duty bound.

Two people regularly play the cash games at my local.

1) Thinks he is some Italian hotshot, and regularly tanks over decisions preflop etc.

2) Guy seems to not have all his mental functions- possibly just steaming drunk, it is the north east.

I have experienced a whole table been asking the dealer call the clock on player 1 and not say a thing even though its 5:25- the game ends in 5 mins and number 2 has taken 3 mins to act pre.

Players call the clock for  variety of reasons, and usually speeding the game up is number 2 on the list.

more info needed on player 1. is he actually italian or does he put on the accent?

He's Romanian and ok away from the tables. But you should see his tanking, just ridiculous in every say. Everytime he has to fold it takes 20 seconds and one of his folding routines, either showing a player next to him, flicking his cards, or dramatic headshakes and chip counting. However, his wife/gf is incred. Every cloud eh :)

Gd lad... yer.. no one wants a complete time waster!  Although sometimes u gota get ur hollywood on!

Worst I've ever done was spout for 5 mins about how sucked out i'd gotten in Gala Northampton, when the guy then turned over my hand to find out his rivered two pair was a better top pair than mine all along! that was £50 well spent! :D

<3 the poker players round ur average live table!!!!!

Players calling the clock on themselves drives me mad.
Saw a guy do it at Betfair live a couple of weeks ago. He had Q high flush with the A on the board.
He was never folding, he was just making a scene.
It was virtually a slowroll.

Get on with it.

Funny you should say that I had a tough decision with JJ after I 3 bet a utg raiser and he 4 bet jammed late on in the 500/1000 deepstack. This was genuinely a tough spot. After 2 mins of mulling it over I knew I could be there all day so politely asked someone to call the clock on me knowing that the added pressure probably will shift me onto making a good decision much quicker because without the immediate urgency, why not just keep on thinking about it in the hope more clarity will bolt out of the blue. Made the laydown in the end but needed the clock to be called.

The table refused to call the clock on me initially which I found nice and it just shows the extent of how much other players want to refrain from calling the clock. Tbf it was a worthy spot to have trouble with and they all realised that and I was happy they would have probs have been fine with me having another two mins.

If you need a hurry up, then why not give yourself a minute to make a decision, instead of going through the dramatics, and disruption, of getting a clock called?
I'm sure that you went through the process with the best of intents, and I am not doubting the difficulty of the decision, just can't understand why you can't manage the situation yourself.

I think if everyone just takes the time they need and no more than we can all live happily.

I've never called a clock on anyone in my life and only had the clock called on me once in my career

The reason I never need to call the clock is (prolly mainly cos I dont play many tourneys lol) but that even when people are taking an amount of time that I think seems like more than they'll need, I trust them to be using the time properly so even though it seems like too much time I give them the benefit of the doubt. I expect the same courtesy to be extended to me when I need more time. the one time I had the clock called on me was in a infuriating situation my an old man in a cash game where I'd taken about 2 minutes to mull a distinctly difficult turn decision, he was doing his bollocks and wasn't a pro so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and didn't say anything. If it had been a player I play with regularly I'd be really steamed if they called the clock on me, and with good reason imo.

I must say I hate people who takes ages with no decision, just to make it look like they wasn't bluffing so tilting

I love calling the clock on people, especially when I am not in the hand.

Lol at Guys reasons. There is nothing that should be taking more than 5 mins so after 5 mins its free game.

Tourneys only obv, bit weird in cash games.

there are one or two players on the circuit who think that its makes them look cool to dwell up on every decision, preflop, utg, you name it, before they eventually make on agonising fold and post on facebook!

calling a clock imo should be only for those actually in a hand. Ive witnessed situs where a player not in the hand, and to be fair, a total arse, is calling on another player just to wind him up. that to me is all wrong.

Ha I feel players in a hand shouldn't call for a clock but those not in should....

Anyone dealt cards is "in the hand" and is free to call clock. Even in a cash game imo. I'd rather play more hands per hour.

Mainly because it didn't cross my mind to self impose a clock and thinking about it now it would have been a much wiser decision. Definitely does look much more dramatic to call the clock on yourself and will avoid doing so in the future.

Have a plan  ;)

Calling a clock on yourself then hero calling is fun imo.

The plan was to see where i was and did so losing least amount of chips lol. I peel a flop and it comes 10 high i probably get it all in and see myself out the comp.


Did this on another occasion in the same tourn 15 bigs, raise 2.5 utg with 99, 14 bbs re shoves all in from mid pos on the pure bubble, i get the clock on and call. He has AQ suited and i hold.

Gotta stop attention seeking imo.

one thing is for sure though. call a clock on me and I'll be taking the full minute regardless of when i make the decision.

SPITE.

I remember when someone called the clock on Jamie on the final of a gupkt, and he got so tilted at him that he called the clock on him every hand for the next 2 hours lol

If you need to call the clock on me can you please ring an ambulance first as it probably means ive died midhand.

Call me over to call a clock on yourself, you can GTFO!! Twats lol

I liked the bolded bit...... adding the ending kills the aggression IMO.