Calling the clock when not in the hand.

[tight4better]

So, a hand came up last night on a 50/1 table at dtd where I've shoved the river and a guy is debating a decision for a £350 pot.

I played the hand so goofy I understand why he was almost 4 minutes into the tank (was glancing at the tourney clock), anyway at this point someone calls the clock on the guy, the dealer (Scott iirc?) said you can't, anyway a small discussion later and the clock is called and he folds 20 seconds later.

Part of me wanted to object to him calling the clock, but having severe poker face on I just sat and stared until he made his decision.

Thoughts? Personally I think it's bad etiquette to call the clock on someone with an obvious decision in a cash game where the blinds don't increase.

[JK]

In a tournament, fair enough.

In a cash game, if a guy is taking too long to make a decision, theres nothing stopping you from getting up and going from a walk. I personally wouldnt allow someone to call a clock in a cash game without the person in the hands say so.

[outragous76]

In a tournament, fair enough.

In a cash game, if a guy is taking too long to make a decision, theres nothing stopping you from getting up and going from a walk. I personally wouldnt allow someone to call a clock in a cash game without the person in the hands say so.

Completely disagree that you think it is OK in a tourney. The only caveat I would add, is if someone has quite clearly been stalling to run up the blinds (for whatever reason).

If you arent in a hand you should stfu! Just leave the table if it irritates you.

Most people in a deep tank have a genuinely tough decision. Just be quiet, let them think it through and realise that one day it will be you.

I actually get more tilted when I am the shover and my villain is in the tank and a 3rd party calls the clock! Why would they do it. They have no information on either hand. Its just because they are impatient. And if they are short, well they have had plenty time to win chips before now. If you play short stack ninja, accept its gonna happen from time to time.

[outragous76]

and just incase we get into the "what is a tough decision" debate, Ill just leave this here

[doubleup]

Completely disagree that you think it is OK in a tourney. The only caveat I woudl add, is if someone has quite clearly been stalling to run up the blinds (for whatever reason).

If you arent in a hand you should stfu! Just leave the table if it irritates you.

Completely disagree with this.  It's my time being wasted.  What exactly is being thought about for five minutes?

[outragous76]

Completely disagree that you think it is OK in a tourney. The only caveat I woudl add, is if someone has quite clearly been stalling to run up the blinds (for whatever reason).

If you arent in a hand you should stfu! Just leave the table if it irritates you.

Completely disagree with this.  It's my time being wasted.  What exactly is being thought about for five minutes?

Play more and find out

[gatso]

I wish more people did it in tournaments, stop idiots from wasting my time

[outragous76]

That said, if we are looking for solutions, I love the idea of the bigger the pot, the longer you get!

Dont get me wrong, if its a decision ofr 20bbs, then gtfo and get your money in, but if its a 200bb pot in a tourney (when ave is like 30bbs), and the villain has taken a strange line and is repping 1 hand then fair enough IMO

[JK]

Guy, the point Im making is, in a cash game, someone taking 5 minutes to make a decision doesn't directly affect you half as much. If someone takes 5 minutes in a tournament, especially when deep, it can cripple you.

Bring in speed poker imo. I think the longest Iv EVER thought was 2-3 mins

[outragous76]

Guy, the point Im making is, in a cash game, someone taking 5 minutes to make a decision doesn't directly affect you half as much. If someone takes 5 minutes in a tournament, especially when deep, it can cripple you.

Bring in speed poker imo. I think the longest Iv EVER thought was 2-3 mins

The type of person who gets frustrated in a tourney will get frustrated at cash, they just wanna be playing

I agree that people tanking over decisions can get silly. I once saw a guy tank for 5 mins with top 2 pair (with 2 all ins ahead) when he had 2k back and the pot was >30k (he folded). Also nonsense tanking over whether to call with AK for 20bbs - that kind of thing. I am all for stopping that.

But there are times (ive probably tanked 4 times ever), when it is necessary. As an example that lots of people may remember  - Triggs QQ hand posted in PHA last year. If that was live and in the early stages of a 10k MTT - and he believes the Villain has 1 hand - he has the right to tank.

Just because you are short and not in a hand does not give you the right to call a clock. Its your fault you are short. Steve Holden did it to me on the pure bubble of a big tourney and I could have throttled him. There was no way the villain was talking himself into folding (he didnt have a fold button), and because Steve was short he didnt want the clock to run down. We what about my right to try and double thru?

[zerofive]

Calling clock is fine. Not a breach of etiquette, especially in 5-10 minute hands. If poker is what you do for a living, I'm sure you'd like more than 6 to 12 opportunities to make money per hour. Have had the clock called on me once in a cash game before and I completely understood.

Nick, I witnessed your particular hand. It was a pretty weird hand and given what villain was tanking with, I understand why he didn't want to move too hastily, but it's hard to begrudge a third party clock decision when there's one table open and the hand has lasted as long as it did.

Also, pretty ignorant to say "it's your fault you're short," but I can understand in certain spots, eg pure bubble, 5x ave pots, 5BI pots etc it's appropriate to naturally allow more time. There is an opportunity to speak up when the floor arrives, they will normally ask something along the lines of "who has the clock been called on and have they had an appropriate amount of time/"

[tight4better]

Nick, I witnessed your particular hand. It was a pretty weird hand and given what villain was tanking with, I understand why he didn't want to move too hastily

/Agree that's why I didn't call the clock on him. Just wanted other points of view I guess.

My opinion is that if you're taking too long EVERY hand, then sure, call the clock. But afaik this is the first time I've ever seen this villain tank for over 30 secs so I gave him the time to make a decision.

[George2Loose]

Guy, the point Im making is, in a cash game, someone taking 5 minutes to make a decision doesn't directly affect you half as much. If someone takes 5 minutes in a tournament, especially when deep, it can cripple you.

Bring in speed poker imo. I think the longest Iv EVER thought was 2-3 mins

The type of person who gets frustrated in a tourney will get frustrated at cash, they just wanna be playing

I agree that people tanking over decisions can get silly. I once saw a guy tank for 5 mins with top 2 pair (with 2 all ins ahead) when he had 2k back and the pot was >30k (he folded). Also nonsense tanking over whether to call with AK for 20bbs - that kind of thing. I am all for stopping that.

But there are times (ive probably tanked 4 times ever), when it is necessary. As an example that lots of people may remember  - Triggs QQ hand posted in PHA last year. If that was live and in the early stages of a 10k MTT - and he believes the Villain has 1 hand - he has the right to tank.

Just because you are short and not in a hand does not give you the right to call a clock. Its your fault you are short. Steve Holden did it to me on the pure bubble of a big tourney and I could have throttled him. There was no way the villain was talking himself into folding (he didnt have a fold button), and because Steve was short he didnt want the clock to run down. We what about my right to try and double thru?

Guy you must be levelling here.

There's so many people who take far too long over a decision. The rule is there. It's a legitimate one therefore it can be used. I tend not to use it but if others wish to after someone is taking ages and ages then it's their right.

Maybe when you bluff you should factor in that someone may call clock? You can take these arguments to the nth degree. If your bluff didn't get through don't blame the guy who called clock.

One thing I do find strange is that whether the clock is 20 mins or 1 hour people seem to allow the same amount of time. Ie: Your hand will be dead after a min. Surely the time you're allowed to tank and the time you get to make a decision should be in proportion to the clock?

[cambridgealex]

I've called the clock on quite a few people in tournaments before. I don't think it's bad etiquette and it's usually when I'm short or its a short clock, or someone is taking a long time over a really basic decision. It's totally fine imo as long as a reasonable amount of time has been taken. Interesting idea about changing the clock time depending on the length of the blind levels. No good reason why not imo, probably just hasn't been thought of by the right people?

Almost never called the clock in a cash game but time is less important in a cash game, I mean, even if you won at 50bb/100 in a cash game, that hand taking ages probably costs you like a small blind or something ridiculous. You can go for a wander and take a break. No need to get stressed about it. Also, it often pisses the person off and it's not a good idea to piss off ppl in cash games - They're your customers, be nice to them

[Poker_Monkey]

The way I see it is if your in a cash game and NOT in the hand keep out of it, no clock no time wasted, your money is not in the pot or you have given up hope on getting your money back by folding so you have no right to call it.

Now if it's an mtt then that's diff, if the player is slowing down the game on every hand and is doing it for let's say face time (not with a really hard one to think about) then god yes call a clock on them! Keep calling the clock and then the TD might figger out something is going on and have words with the player but if it's there first time in the tank or the hand is a really funky one then let them think. How would you like it if someone did it to you???