blonde poker forum

I'm slightly reluctant to put any hands up here as I see these boards as something akin to Madame Guillotine during the French revolution with a bevy of toothless crones sitting in the front row just waiting for the executioner to do his grisly job so that they can applaud the head rolling into the basket before they continue with their crochet.

Anyway having got that off my chest here goes:

Last two 6-handed tables with 1k/2k blinds  and  I have slightly below average 45k stack, eight finalists get paid.

I open UTG to 5k with AJT8 sscc  and all fold to the BB who pots it to 15k.

Best option is......?

pretty hard to open to 5k in a pot limit tournament at 500/1k, good effort though

Fold from me. Probably just min UTG

I could be massively wrong here (I am a fish), but our hand doesnt play well against a general 3b potting range. Basically Id expect to be shown AAxx (usually top end aces), Ace high broadway rundown type hands and KKQJ type hands pretty rarely.

I could be massively overestimating his range here, but thats what Id expect to see and our hand plays terrible vs these hands.

Finished typing before you edited. Raise aint so bad at 1/2, but probably still open to 4-4.5

Good point sir, OP modified accordingly.

Why you think this? kinda tilts me tbh because quite a few people put a lot of time into making this PHA board a really useful tool and so many people say "oh I won't post or comment because i'll get flamed!" look back through the last 100 threads and if there is any flaming of any kind from regular posters that ins't just bantering about in 2 of those threads i'll send £10,000 to a charity of your choice.  Everyone who uses this board should share their hands and their opinions (regardless off ability/experience) and THAT's how the board becomes a great tool...

Anyways :) rant over :D

call and pot the flop if you like it (unless you LOVE the flop, then you should check :D ) and +1 to JK min or 2.5x preflop as you dont really want to be folding this hand but it's better to call the smallest 3bet possible :D

I'd fold pre with this hand from UTG with this stacksize. Ta

Dave on those rare occasions when I do ever put a hand up here I am always hoping for some input from you and  looking forward to your analysis as I respect your opinions and appreciate the time you put into your replies.

I do not consider you to be either toothless or a crone, I was merely trying to illustrate in a humorous manner the fact that I was girding my loins and putting a hand up.

The toothless crones are those that I see in my mind's eye laughing as my mistakes are illustrated by the experts as the hand gets dissected.

My open was 2.5x and I see now that a min raise would have played better.

I elected to peel the extra 11k in position and we see a QT4r flop.

UTG checks...

Neatly making Karabiners's point......

Fair to say, though, that PHA on blonde has improved out of all recognition in the last 12-18 months. Big thanks to all those responsible. The days of "level?", or "just fold, you twat" are long gone, glory be. 

If it continues at this rate, even I may get brave enough to Post a hand soon. I'm pretty sure the first reply will be "how old are you?"..... That'll be "fold pre" then.

Lol. Luke is only tongue in cheek here with his comment. We really do need that smiley because  lots of people make tongue in cheek comments that get taken the wrong way.

I never post hands on pha because only a select few know how really bad I am at the pokers. Managed to butcher the nuts when Eames came for a chat on day 3 fml.

Neatly shooting myself in the foot......

I guess only newbies & complete idiots could have got so easily whooshed.

I'm relatively new round here.

:)

No doubt I will be abusing you if you do.

My introduction to Blonde was via a train driver friend who knew someone that knew some bloke called Tikay that was a bit of a celeb in the Poker world - around 2008/9.

After a quick look around the site I was fairly impressed but when I hit the PHA forum I was like a kid at christmas. I only have one poker playing friend but he's a huge fish (Sorry Jeff if you're reading this, but you are  ;whistle; ) so discussing hands and options, lines, actions, and more importantly the reasoning behind all those things has helped my game enormously. I haven't changed my play too much but do fold a lot more pre and it seems to have helped, but I've gained a great insight into "why" things I were doing were working - and why they were failing too. The depth of knowledge here is astounding, the willingness of those with the knowledge to contribute is what makes this a great place. Long live PHA!!!!

I'm still on the look out for a a genuine "spot" that isn't a glaringly obvious "fold-pre" or a regular 50p moment where a raise would have probably done the trick.


As for your hand Karibina, pre-flop seems like a wide call unless we hit, but now that we've missed the flop I would imagine check/fold would be my play unless there's a club on the board and the Kc hit's the turn

Standard. I'd be terribly disappointed if you did not, I'd so want to retort.

[quote author=Beaver808 link=topic=57491.msg1552906#msg1552906 date=1334740573


As for your hand Karibina, pre-flop seems like a wide call unless we hit, but now that we've missed the flop I would imagine check/fold would be my play unless there's a club on the board and the Kc hit's the turn
[/quote]

We have position remember and 9's are just as good as K's especially black ones.

Back to the original hand.

Now I've opened with this I'm flatting.  We have no read on the villain so I'm assuming a reasonably strong 3bet OOP position range here and we're probably going to be facing a C-Bet on most flops if we're talking the standard AAxx or KKxx.  Now I'm here if I hit top two+ or more favourably a good draw I'm going with it and putting my tournament in the middle.  If I whiff then nh Sir, fold and move on.

Personally I think the hand is right on the margin of my opening range UTG, some tables and indeed in some moods I would just fold.  If I was opening it, I would be min raising.  This allows us to see a flop for cheaper when potted and if we like it with the stacks sizes how they are we can still get most of it in without losing that bit extra when we don't like it.

Also to put my crone pedant hat on, wouldn't a pot by the BB pre be 16k total, an additional 11k and not 15k total?  It's a real pedant point and not really that relevant though.

Yes it was an additional 11k which I did report correctly when I peeled it but not in the OP.

So to recap I have AJT8 ccss and the flop is QT4r, there is 31k in the pot which is almost exactly my remaining stack.

UTG has checked and I elected to check back with middle pair a double belly-buster and two BD flush-draws.

oh yh, think i over-reacted a bit lolol

you did 2.5x as well, should prolly read the HH properly mid-rant as well ! I think 2.5x'ing is fine, prolly slightly preferable over a min tbh.

Yh, call now and try flop something good, If you have to chk/fold the flop you still have 30big blinds witch is more than plenty, you can go away make a cup of tea and some pasta and still have plenty :)


POT.

We'll be going with this one, jolly nice if they want to fold mind.

If you got your chips in then you played the hand perfectly imo.

Can't wait till tikay posts a hand an we all get to berate him, I've been practising.

"MOVE YOUR MANACLE FROM LEFT EYE TO RIGHT ON THE TURN IMO"

and so on.

Also yh I got that LF's comment was TinC but he should defo have used a smiley, knowing Luke very well he doesn't have a single impulse to be mean to anyone ever (except DMorgan which is fair enough) He should however if he was going to post, posted something about the hand, there isn't a player with a blonde account BETTER at PLO tourneys than him imo.

nonononononono

This is where people make huge mistakes, one of the main fundamentals of PLO is realising your equity and denying other people theirs.  In this case if we pot here (we have like 1.2x pot total so we're eff. all in) we're 1) GTD to realise our equity with 8 nut outs and strong BD equity - not to mention a pair which is important as it gives us immediate equity + it blocks(ish) one of the sets and some 2pair combo's, 2) we might make him fold hands with good equity against us. It's going to be hard for him NOT to have 25-25% equity vs us here at the very bottom of his range, even his chk/folds will still have some equity, those chips in the middle are too important to risk him hitting a turn he likes or EVEN worse us hitting a turn card we don't like and maybe having to chk/fold.

There is no play left with the stacks as they are, our only play is to hit the pot button, hope he folds and then get there is he doesn't.

Very true, we have a black 8 in our hand- good point!!

I'm going with the Check>jam if a black 9 or K hits the turn - we've commited 1/3 of our chips to see this flop so a free card seems like a bonus to me - although we do probably turn our hand face up if we jam a K,9 or appropriate black card.

And that's why I love the PHA forum - education FTW!!!!

Sorry Karabinder, I missed your flop post on this thread, my mistake.

Pot all day long for me, we've picked up enough equity here to go with it plus we have all that lovey fold equity right now which we are hoping is quite effective.

Learning loads from this thread.

I may even respond to one eventually, with my own critique. I'll wait till Dave goes on holiday first though. And Greeky.  My arsehole is just fine, as is.

I will never go anywhere where there isn't internet.

Bolded sections indicating possible "over-shares"

Watched the show last night teacake, loved it!

I think I may have to tweak my guillotine allegory as it's more like putting your arse on the block.

How exactly have we missed this flop?

 Ac Jc Ts 8s +  Qs Td 4c looks pretty damn good to me.

I'd be putting the lot in here hoping for a fold but knowing I've got decent equity against pretty much anything but a set.

I missed the 8s, see a few posts on where my opinion changes. There was also no mention of a club on the board, all I had was QT4r - I agree that we have hit this flop, but being a nit I'd still prefer to see the turn before jamming, even though it's been pretty well explained why that's wrong...

fwiw even without the 8 in our hand once it's checked to us we have to hit the pot button for the same reasons.  Pair/Nut-Gutshot (don't have it in me to EVER say nutshot on a poker forum) and 2 BD FD's is too much, gotta go with I'm afraid :)

Pre-flop is defo fine, although you could fold to the 3bet if you really wanted, I think calling IS better as you still have 30big blinds if you miss which in PLO tourneys where there are no antes is pretty comfortable.

lol its possible that tikay gets manacled before he posts a hand in PHA :P

(http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/19498000/ngbbs4a4ef8a67e150.jpg)

I dare say my eyesight's not what it was my boy.

love how i've transformed Tikay's image to a 19th century Aristocrat with slightly weaker left handed eye-sight.

It's like merging Alex Goulder and Tikay together!

I say pip-pip and all that

#lovethemonacle

I actually only have fifteen bigs remaining Dave having peeled the 3-bet pre, does that change the thinking?

oh it's 1k/2k?

so you'd have 30k left.

so you start the hand with 22.5 big blinds? Wow that's WAY WAY closer.

***oon a side note it makes the flop a MANDATORY pot bet, like criminal to do anything else***

Erm, no i think calling preflop is still fine, folding becomes SLIGHTLY more attractive - 15 big blinds is still fine for a POT LIMIT tourney you're in no rush.

What did the turn bring?

Haha, trust me this forum is all hugs and kisses compared to some.  The first ever PHA post I made on any forum was on Betfair at least 2 software generations ago on that site.  I got responses like 'If I was you I would never play the game again.'

Since I've been posting here I've found the PHA forum to be 95% constructive and helpful.

Having "criminally" checked back the flop (don't worry I was already aware that this was probably a huge mistake),

I hold As Jc Ts 8c

The turn now comes 3s

So we have Qc Th 4s 3s out there and UTG checks again...

bet/calling again

Now I feel a lot more comfortable bet/jamming even though I now know we should have done it on the flop - Is that what happened and we missed the river?

With just the one card to come I actually prefer checking now.

We've got position and if we do hit we might have a chance of getting paid following our passive line so far.

yh getting it in on the flop way better than on the turn, now we've got this turn if he checks again POT POT POT POT

for god sakes man get some money in this pot!

That's pretty much how I felt and I checked behind again feeling extremely wimpish and already regretting that I hadn't fired at the flop.

The river comes 3h and UTG checks for a third time...

well you have to chk back now, and pray you win, which you MIGHT.

Without being anything other than constructive peeling the 3bet and not potting the flop is a massive, massive mistake.

I understand your reasons for doing it but you cost yourself so much in terms of equity. speshly ONCE he's checked twice basically saying he doesn't have a strong hand you can bet and win SO often you really do just need to pick the chips up and put them in your stack.

I think that the turn is way closer to being a check than the flop is.  We're just not representing much and potting there looks pretty weak.  That said I'm still potting the turn.  Sometimes you have to forget about representing something that makes sense and put some pressure on your opponent, especially in case like this when we kinda need the pot.  And if called we still have outs.

On River defo check behind and cross your fingers.

Of course I check behind on the river and his AAxx takes the pot.

I ended up bubbling this tourney coming 9/62 and 8 got paid but I knew that this was the key hand.

I also knew that I had mangled this coup which is why I chose to put this hand up so I'm grateful for all of the constructive analysis but tournament PLO is a complex beast especially during the later stages and although I suspected that failing to bet the flop was my error I wasn't completely sure that it was definitely the root of my problems.

A worthwhile discussion and thanks for all of the input.

Thank fk you finally noticed this. I felt like such a monstrous nit when everyone was saying its an easy peel. PHEW