blonde poker forum

The villain is Spanish, 50, has been quite loud all night and seems like hes been in the game for quite a while.

I give him 200e to top up my stack to the max. I think I heard him saying siette (seven) as I handed over the cash to him, but Spanish isn't my first language, so I thought I'd wait a while before making my decision.

As suspected, my read was correct and he brought me over 14 pink chips, (700e)

whats out line?

fwiw, we're stuck 700e at this point in the night.

Karma always gets you. Snap call him back.

if i understand it correctly, he's given you 500euros too much? Obviously give it him back ainec

yeh, I thought after what they had done to Pete I shouldn't say anything but sigh gave it back

Wp, fake post saying you gave back is genius btw

Apology in advance. So much I don't understand here.

Who are 'They' and what did they do to Pete?

Why is the decision really difficult?

What bearing does being stuck 700e have?

Similiar spot playing Blackjack in Germany, guy meant to pay me out with a 50 euro chip and gave me a 500 euro chip. tyty, snap went into my pocket. Pitboss came over and replaced the dealer whilst giving me a dirty look. [  ] gave it back.

Why are we even remotely considering giving this back? I am confused. Apart from good Karma I can't see another reason. They make the mistake, they pay. This is life.

Surely only people who are golden in life can think giving it back is the nut line?

fwiw i saw an old lady drop £10 out of her purse at the bus stop once, i picked it up and gave it her back. This is a completely different game imo.

Not that it should make a difference, but this wasn't a dealer, it was a fellow player.

Sigh, misread that. To a fellow player I would defo give it back! To an anon dealer or a member of the casino staff no chance. Its not like the casinos are struggling.

I'm not arguing here, or judging, but just for the sake of debate, if a cashier turned his back for a moment and left a pile of £500 chips unattended, would it be OK to take one?

Not gonna outright lie to you Tom, the thought would probably cross my mind but i can assure you the answer would be 100% NO, as that is outright theft and I am pretty sure it is a crime.. whereas profiting from someone's mistake is not.

Its an us and them type thing. Robin Hood if you will. Steal from the rich, but not your own.

I'm not going to lie to you either Milly. Both scenarios are profiting from someone else's mistake, and both are outright theft.

I appreciate your honesty though.

Milligan, what do you do for a living?

Too many quotes for my liking

Just had to google the definition of theft. It's close but it looks like you are right. I find myself reevaluating myself. Its weird as when i have been given too much change in a newsagents  i always snap give it back. But in the casino in Germany i snapped pocketed the money. I can only think the fact it was 500 euro blinded me? but i do prefer to compare myself to Robin Hood.

My mother would argue i was born a scumbag. The first time I was done by the police.. I was 11yrs old. I laugh about it now, but if you break it down its actually quite bad. A story for another time. Face to face maybe.

Bank manager

I used to be an interpreter in the RAF and held the highest form of governement clearance in this country for 8 yrs. The Americans even trusted me to work with their intelligence services. (it wasn't taken off me fwiw. I quit) I now work in I.T.

I have been examined, tested, had my full background checked numerous times and am deemed to be one of the most trustworthy charachters out there. Which in fact I am, for the most part i guess.

I realise my charachter is probably being brought into disripute here. I will get by though, as I am confident in who I am.

Fold pre

I have no problems taking the casinos money.

Casinos arent like normal shops where you pay for a product. They are out to take you for every penny you have with no remorse, and they even tell you off for cheering when you win, limit your bets when you want to break out and basically do everything in their power to be against you.

I know Dave (Milligan) in real life and he seems trustworthy enough but I wouldnt leave him alone with my Wife or Mcdonalds!!

Good time for a staking thread Milligan!

Someone phone Dubai and tell him Pete Linton's hacked his account.

Lolz. tyty I think.. Wife defo not! but tbf you would probs be safe if it was a fillet of fish or something else that doesn't belong on the menu.

Dubai is a fellow Robin Hood.

Ha. Seriously tho, if its the casinos money, pocket the 500 and give it to charity. Robin Hood would be proud

I don't think casino's or casino owners & shareholders are bad or dishonest people by definition. On the contrary, I think they are just the same as any other people in any other business.

Casino's restrict themselves to taking your money by legal means. If you overpaid them, you could reasonably expect them to point it out, not pocket the difference, and if you turned your back on your pile of £500 chips, you certainly wouldn't expect them to take one.

I played Luton Grosvenor after an absence of several months. As soon as I entered the building, the door staff asked me to go to the cash desk.

When I got there, they handed me £30 that I had accidentally overpaid on my last visit.

Its something thats been debated for ages, every old school gambler i know always says they would happily pocket the casinos cash, and most non gamblers say they wouldnt.

Maybe this is why they are golden.

Well that's definitely not the case in my experience.

A large percentage of old school gamblers are scumbags. Stroke pullers, cheats, bullies, angle shooters, con-men, criminals. Or just grumpy and mean-spirited.

There is an argument for taking the big evil corporations money if a casino overpays you. I don't personally agree with that argument, but whatever. However, the majority of old school guys would also choose not to point out that you had the winning hand if the cards were tabled and the pot was mistakenly being pushed to them. They are not Robin Hood characters fighting against the corrupt and greedy system. They are out for themselves (which is fine) and have very few scruples about fucking others over to get their money (which is not fine).

This does not apply to every old school player. There are some good guys too. But the gambling world attracts more than its usual share of scumbags, and it also turns a lot of good guys into scumbags eventually. When you meet an old timer who has lived in that world for 30 years and is STILL an absolute stand up guy, then you have found a true good un. But unfortunately even the ones who started off good have very often been poisoned in some way by the gambling world in which they have lived.

Good post, most of which is very true. I would still take the monkey and give it to the nearest tramp

my financial situation atm is absolutely dire, so it's kind of an irrelevant situation as I wouldn't be anywhere near a casino.

however, if i was, even with a couple of hundred euros being an amount that would be immensely helpful to me right now it wouldn't even enter my mind for a split second to pocket it, whether it was a mistake by a casino employee or not.

So, is the OP adding English = thief to our list of assumptions?

it was chip runner not player obv

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGjaaQAvSTA

What happened to Pete? Saw soemthing about it on FB?

My understanding of the situation is that if someone mispays you the minute you do anything aside from hold the money it is legally counted as theft.

I had a spot like this in Vegas in October where I was coloring up at the cage, i had $2k in change and she gave me two flags instead of 2x $1ks. I didn't notice till I got back to my hotel room was sure there had been a mistake so I went down asked them to double check the camera's and see and when it came about there was a mistake I snap gave them the $8k back. I know in vegas they would prolly have figured it out so its a negative freeroll to keep it almost but would have happily returned it even under 100% gte I wouldn't be caught.

As far as I was concerned there wasn't another option, I would have done it for $300, $35,000 and $380,000 if it's not your money it's not your money. I do like the principle of fucking the house over, but I'd rather do it the proper way and win it fair+square. I've never been cohered or ushered into gambling in a casino in my life, I know full well what the deal is when I punt off at craps/blackjack etc and it's completely my choice so I don't see the casino as particularly out to get me. I also don't think financial situation has anything to do with it either, I think it's basically down to scruples. I know some people with >£50 to their name who'd chase a guy down the street to give him a 1er back, and I also know people worth millions who would knock you for their share of a dinner bill at any opportunity.

We were talking about this the other day actually, Jake lost his wallet with like 7k euros in it and we were putting the question out there of what % of people overall would attempt to return the wallet, with the money over just keeping it? Thoughts?

60% (keeping/stealing the money)

how much do you think the AMOUNT of money influences the %?

i.e would it go to 35% stealing the money if it was £60, or would it be higher?

Amount makes a huge difference

I'd say 25% would give it back if it was €7000

But more like 95% of people would give it back if it was €20

+1

+1
I've been waiting to do this to one of your posts for years Dave, finally you posted something none strat :P

If the casino or persons in question had treated you or your friends very bad previously and basically stole from you how would this change your decision?

It would cause me not to play there.

Everyone on blonde is obviously the joint nicest person in the world. Should be super competitive when they introduce the Nobel Prize for poker

Dave how is giving the casino 8k back better than giving 8k to charity and more evenly distributing the economic wealth of America?

 rotflmfao

The original question was if you are over paid / given too many chips, would you give the money back?

It seems that some, perhaps even most people would. (Which makes them the nicest people in the world apparently).

Since then, the original question has been modified to "What if they were bad people?" and "What if you gave the money away later?"

My answer is still yes. I would give it back, So I guess I'm still in line for a Nobel Prize.   :D

yh i do see the point, problem with it is though is it's not MY money to give to charity, so ultimately as fair as it would be to sack the casino off and give the $8,000 to a cause that would benefit from it greatly as opposed to returning it to a casino to whom $8,000 is such an insignificant amount of money, it's just not my right to decide where this $8,000 goes. It would have been a terrific gesture of the Bellagio to donate say $1-2000 to charity on my behalf as thanks for returning it. They did give me a free meal but the way I was going on the dice they'd have likely given it me anyways :D.

The other point which concerned me is that it's pretty likely someone could lose their job over an $8,000 mistake, and as much as some people might say "that's their fault" (which ofc it is to an extent) I really really couldn't live with that on my conscious. Perhaps I'm soft :)


sick!

You, Red Dog and the rest of the boy scouts can be banished to a beautiful island where you sip Earl Grey whilst fighting each other to see who can walk the next granny across the street. Whilst me, Milligan and the scumbags get sent to some volcano where we can think up more elaborate ways to get our hands on money that isnt "rightfully" ours

Patrick made a post specifically asking for opinions, so I gave mine, and Dave gave his.

You seem to have taken it personally. I do hope that's not the case.

I have no axe to grind with you or anyone else.

Milligan is my friend BTW, and I didn't call anyone a scumbag.

I was just debating a point, because I was invited to.


This thread reminds me of a bloke that went to see the doctor because he couldn't stop stealing things. The doctor gave him some pills and said, "Take two every day for a week, and if you're no better, try to get me a flat-screen TV".

Of course I haven't taken it seriously, surely that's pretty obvious with what I've wrote!!

 ;woohoo;

I called Milligan and me scumbags don't worry :)

Think I might be a scumbag as well.

You don't get rich giving shit away.

Scumbags gonna Scumbag.

Tosser!


http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1996/06/10/213272/index.htm

haha A+

can't stand earl grey tea fwiw

id personally say less then 25%...

 Ahrt this post. Quality lol

seriously though who drinks Earl Gray it's horrible.

lol titbeam ITT I was sure you were going to question my 'morales' ;)

Earl Grey is immense

Also after they scammed Pete I wouldn't be giving the bastards a penny back. In fact I'd be more likely to give it to Pete than the casino.

Lol.

I still don't know who 'They' are or what they did to Pete.

They being the casino

They allowed Pete to bet more than the max for over an hour playing table games but when he won they reduced his bet to the table max and paid out up to that. Big debacle with the floor staff, they offer no rebate or compensation at all.

ol. that karma's a bitch ......did he lose 18k by any chance :)

That sounds pretty bad.

Was this was the same casino?

pete said they gave him 100euro back.......he lost at least 10times that though probably

Was It the same casino, and what is it called?

It was the same casino

It was just called Casino Marbella I think

Thanks. I'll cross it off my list.

lol what game was he playing to go an hour without winning ffs

What if I found a big bag of money abandoned somewhere? Blonde angels are saying I should hand it in to the police because somebody made the mistake of losing it. I would disagree and say divine intervention, of which we know very little, has put this bag in my path and I should go on holiday in thanks. I don't like strict black & white judgments about moral integrity. Situations that question ethics are usually grey areas so people should be free to make judgement calls based on their own interpretation of an individual situation. I would rectify the mistake from a fellow player because a multitude of factors tell me it's the right thing to do. But a few years ago the bank sent me a cheque for £6k and then the next day they sent me another cheque for £6k by mistake. Did I rectify that mistake? Did I bollocks.

The money found in a bag on the street is a different concept altogether imo, because you have no obvious way of returning it to it's rightful owner (clearly the "right" thing to do if possible" then keeping it becomes way more likely - in fact, I'd quite likely keep it myself. If I found a wallet and it had someone's name in it or was easy enough to track the owner down, then returning it becomes (as far as i'm concerned) the only option.

Thats illegal in this country. All bets over the table max must be refunded after the ball has landed and before any bet is cleared. Im pretty sure that would be the case in Spain too.

Oh yeah I'm sure its illegal in Spain too but they're no doubt aware that tourists staying for a week that don't speak Spanish to a high level can't do a thing about it.

Are you telling us what we're saying, or did someone actually say that? It's difficult for us to argue if you're going decide what our words and opinions are.

Also, Why are we 'blonde angels' just because we're doing what we think is the right thing? (Dubai called us boy scouts lol). Are you not also doing what you think is the right thing?

Does it make your point stronger if you give us a label that makes us sound a bit ridiculous?

Note: because text is such a difficult medium in some circumstances, let me make it clear that as far as I'm concerned, this is just light-hearted debate.

I'm smiling.  :)



 

So if there is no obvious way to identify the rightful owner you would decide it is yours to keep. Many people would say the police have a better chance of tracking down the rightful owner than you and it is not yours to keep. But for you easy identification is an important factor in the decision. The most important factor for me if I found a wallet would be how much I need the money. If my family were desperate at home because we couldn't pay the bills and there was no food in the fridge I would fist pump keep that money. If I was young, single, with no responsibilities, and plenty of money I would find it very easy to tell everyone I would always hand it in.

You are Blonde angels because it amuses me to call you that and nothing more. I think the label is quite cute rather than ridiculous actually. From what I read it seemed like Blonde angels would hand in money they don't rightfully own whatever the circumstances. However, that was merely my perception. If you would keep money that isn't yours under certain circumstances you are free to elaborate. It would be interesting to hear what factors change something from black to white for you.

I think how much you need to the money should be of no concern personally, I mean it's obv hard to say as I don't have a family etc so have never been "desperate" for money so i guess if I were ever in that position where I needed to steal to feed my family then maybe my morales would change, that's certainly possible - and I guess quite probable but I really don't know... but the way I see it now is if it isn't my money it isn't my money and that's the end.

Thing is though, if you hand it in to the police or really have no idea how to get it to it's rightful owner (finding £100 at a cash machine for example) then you really may as well keep it /give it to charity as there is a high likelihood someone else is going to keep it.

I find the label "blonde angels" amusing also, it prompted an image of me, red-dog and co sitting round waiting for a phone to ring and we answer on speaker to here tikay say "Hello Angels" and then giving us some instructions of a do-good task that needs doing :D

If that's true then it's truly mindblowing that they would cheat him so brazenly. I can totally understand why giving the money back would be a tough decision, though i reckon i'd sigh give it back as well.

What if you could easily identify the wallet? On the one hand it's the little old lady's from over the road and on the other hand it's the drug dealer's next door who's broke into your house a couple of times. Would that factor change your view about returning the wallet? Each situation is unique and complex. It's important to note that however somebody acts in grey areas doesn't mean they don't have rock solid core priniciples in more obvious situations. For example I would steal the bag of money all day long, but I'd prefer to die than steal from my family.

I agree.

Almost anything is justifiable if you add enough caveats.

What if you knew a little child needed 10k for a life saving operation. You went and asked a rich bloke to donate, who declined. On the way out walikng down the rich blokes long drive you found a money bag with the rich blokes name on it. It just so happens that there's 10k in the bag.

Would you keep the dosh for yourself, give to childs operation or give it back to rich bloke???

What caveats would you need to add?

How would you reply to the original question before the caveats?

There are a multitude of factors in the original question which make it a very simple repayment. As for over payment at the casino. Just like any other unique situation the caveats/factors are all important. If it was my home casino I would correct the error. If I was in Vegas about to catch a taxi to the airport after doing my dough I wouldn't.

Caveats aside, we are in agreement.

Which is an important point. Our moral conviction to do the right thing is equally strong and equally deep in many core areas of life. But it appears you would apply stong moral conviction in areas where I would deem such conviction inappropriate, because of the caveats. Your moral conviction is no stronger or deeper than mine, it's just appears to be applied more liberally..

kind of a ridiculous scenario, but at the same time you might have highlighted a reasonable spot where STEALING (and yes it is stealigng) has a bit of morale lenience.

I think the drastic nature of the situation you've suggested demonstrates really how the "difficult decision" in this thread really is like the simplest decision of them all.

agree with red, cravats let you get away with loads of stuff, especially vs spaniards

(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo151/outragous76/cravat.png)

So what you're saying is...

At your home casino, where you have a basic relationship with a lot of the staff (say hello how are you to the cashier, and know a lot of the dealers by names etc) you wouldn't correct a mistake that could potentially cost them their jobs, but in a vegas casino you'd happily leg it home and let a cashier whose name you don't know and have prolly spoken >12 words to lifetime take the brunt, likely sacked so you can pocket a grand or two?

Should that read would correct a mistake?

If it was DTD where i play all the time, i wouldn't pocket it. If it was pretty much any other place in the UK then I am out the door. (with a pocket full of cash)

People might say a victim without a face is still a victim. If a tree falls and nobody is around to hear it, it still makes a sound..

Interesting cravat link.  http://earlshilton.org.uk/neck-band/index.html

Caveat: The word 'Interesting' is subjective.

Yh sorry WOULD CORRECT A MISTAKE.

I respect everyone's opinions, but am pretty amazed by the notion that if you're not known in a place it's fine to steal from it?
So If I dropped my wallet on the floor in a restaurant, if you didn't know me it would be fine to try sneak it up and pinch it, but if you knew me you'd give me it back?

fyp

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. The guesswork about how both casinos would react to mistakes is a very small factor in both scenarios actually. But on a seperate note I think casinos who sack employees for making mistakes are morally deficient.

Nononono. That is actively trying to deceive. Someone giving you too much money and you deciding to keep it is different. You didn't set out with ill intentions. You are merely an opportunist. Gifthorse and mouth imo.

Behave Nicholson.

I can barely believe this thread. I'm off almost berfore I arrived. 

@Mantis
So are you saying that because of your perceived image you would correct a mistake at your local and where your image doesnt matter you'd do a runner? Or are you saying you would correct it to save an employees potential job just because of the pleasantries when taking your money?

Fair enough - been a very interesting debate.

To me, if it's not my money and I take it it's stealing, and that is the same if I take it from your pocket, or you give it to me mistakenly. I can defo understand why some people see it a lot less black and white than I do though, but for me it is that black and white - maybe having had a lot less life experience than a lot of people in this thread is an influence on this, idk - time will tell I guess :)


Surely, if you employ someone to do a job and they don't do it properly, then an employee is completely entitled legally and morally to sack the person? I think in the EXACT example of a casino it's pretty harsh (people do make mistakes etc), but it can't be condemned morally can it? This is why I kind of see the point of "well it was there fault they made this mistake, so it's not my problem if they fired" however I personally just couldn't live with myself knowing that I acted against my principals and someone else has taken the brunt for it, regardless of the amount of incompetence they demonstrated during the incident.

I do agree with the point you made tho MANTIS that "morality" is so deep and personal that you can't judge someone's morale core on their opinion on 1 subject.

It's because I want to be that way in my own regular life. I suppose what people think of me in everyday life is a factor but what I think of myself is overall most important. The employee's job threat is pure speculation so wouldn't really be a factor in either scenario. I've never sacked an employee for making a mistake and think instant dismissal is a drastic course of action. An employer has a moral obligation to be fair to an employee imo. I wouldn't do a runner from the Vegas casino either I would order a limo and chill out with a few cocktails at the bar while I waited.

What if a Vegas bandit paid you out $5k too much. Now there isn't an actual person making the mistake does that change things? But don't forget about the poor old bandit maintenance guy who could well be fired over this.

I would like to think I would be honest in all situations but in the case of the bandit I'd probably be sipping those cocktails with you.

[quote author=MANTIS01 link=topic=57584.msg1559671#msg1559671 date=1335791n regular  The employee's job threat is pure speculation so wouldn't really be a factor in either scenario.
[/quote]

i think you might be thinking ive just plucked the someone losing their job factor out of the air, i know 100% that a LOT of cage mistakes in vegas end with someone losing thier job as casinis cant risk staff whi might be skimming. so you can be pretty sure if you pocket an extra 2k then its 90%+ sure the cashier is getting into trouble

What if you realise the cashier has made a mistake when you're in the bar at the airport? Does your commitment and worry for that person extend to racing back to the casino to rectify the error and return money you're not entitled to? I reckon almost everybody would think oh well it's too late now. So this very strong principle of concern for the cashier's job prospects and the commitment of not taking money you aren't entitled to would quickly vanish. The added factor of a mildy inconvenient taxi ride back to the casino would mean these strong principles are simply and quickly discarded. Hence they aren't such strong principles afterall.

Yes, but what if an enchanted limo driver gave you a glimpse of the future and you discovered that the the cashier, who was destined to become president of the USA and save the world from nuclear war and total extermination, was instead killed by a loan shark because he lost his job and couldn't pay his debts?

What are your caveats Red? The caveat in my example is inconvenience and it always seems quite an influential one.

Also, why the funny story? Does it make your point stronger if you give my post a label that makes it sound a bit ridiculous? ;)

I just posted my caveat. (Remember the limo driver and world destruction?)

I like  funny stories.

Yes, of course it does.  :kiss: