Really difficult decision vs Spantard

[RED-DOG]

agree with red, cravats let you get away with loads of stuff, especially vs spaniards

Interesting cravat link.  http://earlshilton.org.uk/neck-band/index.html

Caveat: The word 'Interesting' is subjective.

[SuuPRlim]

If it was my home casino I would correct the error. If I was in Vegas about to catch a taxi to the airport after doing my dough I wouldn't.

So what you're saying is...

At your home casino, where you have a basic relationship with a lot of the staff (say hello how are you to the cashier, and know a lot of the dealers by names etc) you wouldn't correct a mistake that could potentially cost them their jobs, but in a vegas casino you'd happily leg it home and let a cashier whose name you don't know and have prolly spoken >12 words to lifetime take the brunt, likely sacked so you can pocket a grand or two?

Should that read would correct a mistake?

If it was DTD where i play all the time, i wouldn't pocket it. If it was pretty much any other place in the UK then I am out the door. (with a pocket full of cash)

People might say a victim without a face is still a victim. If a tree falls and nobody is around to hear it, it still makes a sound..

Yh sorry WOULD CORRECT A MISTAKE.

I respect everyone's opinions, but am pretty amazed by the notion that if you're not known in a place it's fine to steal from it?
So If I dropped my wallet on the floor in a restaurant, if you didn't know me it would be fine to try sneak it up and pinch it, but if you knew me you'd give me it back?

[MANTIS01]

If it was my home casino I would correct the error. If I was in Vegas about to catch a taxi to the airport after doing my dough I wouldn't.

So what you're saying is...

At your home casino, where you have a basic relationship with a lot of the staff (say hello how are you to the cashier, and know a lot of the dealers by names etc) you would correct a mistake that could potentially cost them their jobs, but in a vegas casino you'd happily leg it home and let a cashier whose name you don't know and have prolly spoken >12 words to lifetime take the brunt, likely sacked so you can pocket a grand or two?

fyp

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. The guesswork about how both casinos would react to mistakes is a very small factor in both scenarios actually. But on a seperate note I think casinos who sack employees for making mistakes are morally deficient.

[millidonk]

If it was my home casino I would correct the error. If I was in Vegas about to catch a taxi to the airport after doing my dough I wouldn't.

So what you're saying is...

At your home casino, where you have a basic relationship with a lot of the staff (say hello how are you to the cashier, and know a lot of the dealers by names etc) you wouldn't correct a mistake that could potentially cost them their jobs, but in a vegas casino you'd happily leg it home and let a cashier whose name you don't know and have prolly spoken >12 words to lifetime take the brunt, likely sacked so you can pocket a grand or two?

Should that read would correct a mistake?

If it was DTD where i play all the time, i wouldn't pocket it. If it was pretty much any other place in the UK then I am out the door. (with a pocket full of cash)

People might say a victim without a face is still a victim. If a tree falls and nobody is around to hear it, it still makes a sound..

Yh sorry WOULD CORRECT A MISTAKE.

I respect everyone's opinions, but am pretty amazed by the notion that if you're not known in a place it's fine to steal from it?
So If I dropped my wallet on the floor in a restaurant, if you didn't know me it would be fine to try sneak it up and pinch it, but if you knew me you'd give me it back?

Nononono. That is actively trying to deceive. Someone giving you too much money and you deciding to keep it is different. You didn't set out with ill intentions. You are merely an opportunist. Gifthorse and mouth imo.

[tikay]

What if I found a big bag of money abandoned somewhere? Blonde angels are saying I should hand it in to the police because somebody made the mistake of losing it. I would disagree and say divine intervention, of which we know very little, has put this bag in my path and I should go on holiday in thanks. I don't like strict black & white judgments about moral integrity. Situations that question ethics are usually grey areas so people should be free to make judgement calls based on their own interpretation of an individual situation. I would rectify the mistake from a fellow player because a multitude of factors tell me it's the right thing to do. But a few years ago the bank sent me a cheque for £6k and then the next day they sent me another cheque for £6k by mistake. Did I rectify that mistake? Did I bollocks.

The money found in a bag on the street is a different concept altogether imo, because you have no obvious way of returning it to it's rightful owner (clearly the "right" thing to do if possible" then keeping it becomes way more likely - in fact, I'd quite likely keep it myself. If I found a wallet and it had someone's name in it or was easy enough to track the owner down, then returning it becomes (as far as i'm concerned) the only option.

So if there is no obvious way to identify the rightful owner you would decide it is yours to keep. Many people would say the police have a better chance of tracking down the rightful owner than you and it is not yours to keep. But for you easy identification is an important factor in the decision. The most important factor for me if I found a wallet would be how much I need the money. If my family were desperate at home because we couldn't pay the bills and there was no food in the fridge I would fist pump keep that money. If I was young, single, with no responsibilities, and plenty of money I would find it very easy to tell everyone I would always hand it in.

I think how much you need to the money should be of no concern personally, I mean it's obv hard to say as I don't have a family etc so have never been "desperate" for money so i guess if I were ever in that position where I needed to steal to feed my family then maybe my morales would change, that's certainly possible - and I guess quite probable but I really don't know... but the way I see it now is if it isn't my money it isn't my money and that's the end.

Thing is though, if you hand it in to the police or really have no idea how to get it to it's rightful owner (finding £100 at a cash machine for example) then you really may as well keep it /give it to charity as there is a high likelihood someone else is going to keep it.

I find the label "blonde angels" amusing also, it prompted an image of me, red-dog and co sitting round waiting for a phone to ring and we answer on speaker to here tikay say "Hello Angels" and then giving us some instructions of a do-good task that needs doing

Behave Nicholson.

I can barely believe this thread. I'm off almost berfore I arrived. 

[bobAlike]

@Mantis
So are you saying that because of your perceived image you would correct a mistake at your local and where your image doesnt matter you'd do a runner? Or are you saying you would correct it to save an employees potential job just because of the pleasantries when taking your money?

[SuuPRlim]

If it was my home casino I would correct the error. If I was in Vegas about to catch a taxi to the airport after doing my dough I wouldn't.

So what you're saying is...

At your home casino, where you have a basic relationship with a lot of the staff (say hello how are you to the cashier, and know a lot of the dealers by names etc) you wouldn't correct a mistake that could potentially cost them their jobs, but in a vegas casino you'd happily leg it home and let a cashier whose name you don't know and have prolly spoken >12 words to lifetime take the brunt, likely sacked so you can pocket a grand or two?

Should that read would correct a mistake?

If it was DTD where i play all the time, i wouldn't pocket it. If it was pretty much any other place in the UK then I am out the door. (with a pocket full of cash)

People might say a victim without a face is still a victim. If a tree falls and nobody is around to hear it, it still makes a sound..

Yh sorry WOULD CORRECT A MISTAKE.

I respect everyone's opinions, but am pretty amazed by the notion that if you're not known in a place it's fine to steal from it?
So If I dropped my wallet on the floor in a restaurant, if you didn't know me it would be fine to try sneak it up and pinch it, but if you knew me you'd give me it back?

Nononono. That is actively trying to deceive. Someone giving you too much money and you deciding to keep it is different. You didn't set out with ill intentions. You are merely an opportunist. Gifthorse and mouth imo.

Fair enough - been a very interesting debate.

To me, if it's not my money and I take it it's stealing, and that is the same if I take it from your pocket, or you give it to me mistakenly. I can defo understand why some people see it a lot less black and white than I do though, but for me it is that black and white - maybe having had a lot less life experience than a lot of people in this thread is an influence on this, idk - time will tell I guess

But on a seperate note I think casinos who sack employees for making mistakes are morally deficient.

Surely, if you employ someone to do a job and they don't do it properly, then an employee is completely entitled legally and morally to sack the person? I think in the EXACT example of a casino it's pretty harsh (people do make mistakes etc), but it can't be condemned morally can it? This is why I kind of see the point of "well it was there fault they made this mistake, so it's not my problem if they fired" however I personally just couldn't live with myself knowing that I acted against my principals and someone else has taken the brunt for it, regardless of the amount of incompetence they demonstrated during the incident.

I do agree with the point you made tho MANTIS that "morality" is so deep and personal that you can't judge someone's morale core on their opinion on 1 subject.

[MANTIS01]

@Mantis
So are you saying that because of your perceived image you would correct a mistake at your local and where your image doesnt matter you'd do a runner? Or are you saying you would correct it to save an employees potential job just because of the pleasantries when taking your money?

It's because I want to be that way in my own regular life. I suppose what people think of me in everyday life is a factor but what I think of myself is overall most important. The employee's job threat is pure speculation so wouldn't really be a factor in either scenario. I've never sacked an employee for making a mistake and think instant dismissal is a drastic course of action. An employer has a moral obligation to be fair to an employee imo. I wouldn't do a runner from the Vegas casino either I would order a limo and chill out with a few cocktails at the bar while I waited.

What if a Vegas bandit paid you out $5k too much. Now there isn't an actual person making the mistake does that change things? But don't forget about the poor old bandit maintenance guy who could well be fired over this.

[bobAlike]

@Mantis
So are you saying that because of your perceived image you would correct a mistake at your local and where your image doesnt matter you'd do a runner? Or are you saying you would correct it to save an employees potential job just because of the pleasantries when taking your money?

It's because I want to be that way in my own regular life. I suppose what people think of me in everyday life is a factor but what I think of myself is overall most important. The employee's job threat is pure speculation so wouldn't really be a factor in either scenario. I've never sacked an employee for making a mistake and think instant dismissal is a drastic course of action. An employer has a moral obligation to be fair to an employee imo. I wouldn't do a runner from the Vegas casino either I would order a limo and chill out with a few cocktails at the bar while I waited.

What if a Vegas bandit paid you out $5k too much. Now there isn't an actual person making the mistake does that change things? But don't forget about the poor old bandit maintenance guy who could well be fired over this.

I would like to think I would be honest in all situations but in the case of the bandit I'd probably be sipping those cocktails with you.

[SuuPRlim]

[quote author=MANTIS01 link=topic=57584.msg1559671#msg1559671 date=1335791n regular  The employee's job threat is pure speculation so wouldn't really be a factor in either scenario.
[/quote]

i think you might be thinking ive just plucked the someone losing their job factor out of the air, i know 100% that a LOT of cage mistakes in vegas end with someone losing thier job as casinis cant risk staff whi might be skimming. so you can be pretty sure if you pocket an extra 2k then its 90%+ sure the cashier is getting into trouble

[MANTIS01]

What if you realise the cashier has made a mistake when you're in the bar at the airport? Does your commitment and worry for that person extend to racing back to the casino to rectify the error and return money you're not entitled to? I reckon almost everybody would think oh well it's too late now. So this very strong principle of concern for the cashier's job prospects and the commitment of not taking money you aren't entitled to would quickly vanish. The added factor of a mildy inconvenient taxi ride back to the casino would mean these strong principles are simply and quickly discarded. Hence they aren't such strong principles afterall.

[RED-DOG]

What if you realise the cashier has made a mistake when you're in the bar at the airport? Does your commitment and worry for that person extend to racing back to the casino to rectify the error and return money you're not entitled to? I reckon almost everybody would think oh well it's too late now. So this very strong principle of concern for the cashier's job prospects and the commitment of not taking money you aren't entitled to would quickly vanish. The added factor of a mildy inconvenient taxi ride back to the casino would mean these strong principles are simply and quickly discarded. Hence they aren't such strong principles afterall.

Yes, but what if an enchanted limo driver gave you a glimpse of the future and you discovered that the the cashier, who was destined to become president of the USA and save the world from nuclear war and total extermination, was instead killed by a loan shark because he lost his job and couldn't pay his debts?

[MANTIS01]

What if you realise the cashier has made a mistake when you're in the bar at the airport? Does your commitment and worry for that person extend to racing back to the casino to rectify the error and return money you're not entitled to? I reckon almost everybody would think oh well it's too late now. So this very strong principle of concern for the cashier's job prospects and the commitment of not taking money you aren't entitled to would quickly vanish. The added factor of a mildy inconvenient taxi ride back to the casino would mean these strong principles are simply and quickly discarded. Hence they aren't such strong principles afterall.

Yes, but what if an enchanted limo driver gave you a glimpse of the future and you discovered that the the cashier, who was destined to become president of the USA and save the world from nuclear war and total extermination, was instead killed by a loan shark because he lost his job and couldn't pay his debts?

What are your caveats Red? The caveat in my example is inconvenience and it always seems quite an influential one.

Also, why the funny story? Does it make your point stronger if you give my post a label that makes it sound a bit ridiculous?

[RED-DOG]

What if you realise the cashier has made a mistake when you're in the bar at the airport? Does your commitment and worry for that person extend to racing back to the casino to rectify the error and return money you're not entitled to? I reckon almost everybody would think oh well it's too late now. So this very strong principle of concern for the cashier's job prospects and the commitment of not taking money you aren't entitled to would quickly vanish. The added factor of a mildy inconvenient taxi ride back to the casino would mean these strong principles are simply and quickly discarded. Hence they aren't such strong principles afterall.

Yes, but what if an enchanted limo driver gave you a glimpse of the future and you discovered that the the cashier, who was destined to become president of the USA and save the world from nuclear war and total extermination, was instead killed by a loan shark because he lost his job and couldn't pay his debts?

What are your caveats Red? The caveat in my example is inconvenience and it always seems quite an influential one.

Also, why the funny story? Does it make your point stronger if you give my post a label that makes it sound a bit ridiculous?

I just posted my caveat. (Remember the limo driver and world destruction?)

I like  funny stories.

Yes, of course it does.