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Title: Line check Post by: zerofive on May 07, 2012, 03:43:14 PM PokerStars Hand #80018974572: Tournament #2012050021, $25+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level III (40/80) - 2012/05/06 20:13:10 WET [2012/05/06 15:13:10 ET]
Table '2012050021 2232' 9-max Seat #9 is the button Seat 1: For2nArtem (18214 in chips) Seat 2: Sent1mental (9810 in chips) Seat 3: Deus 2011 (8755 in chips) Seat 4: Live is Best (16305 in chips) Seat 5: podhhe (9278 in chips) Seat 6: demographix (11345 in chips) Seat 7: Kruemmel111 (8942 in chips) Seat 8: Praktikant09 (9270 in chips) Seat 9: AntoniONik87 (10265 in chips) For2nArtem: posts small blind 40 Sent1mental: posts big blind 80 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to demographix [Ad Ac] Deus 2011: folds Live is Best: folds podhhe: folds demographix: raises 95 to 175 Kruemmel111: calls 175 Praktikant09: folds AntoniONik87: calls 175 For2nArtem: folds Sent1mental: calls 95 *** FLOP *** [9h Js Kc] Sent1mental: checks demographix: bets 480 Kruemmel111: calls 480 AntoniONik87: folds Sent1mental: folds *** TURN *** [9h Js Kc] [5h] demographix: bets 886 Kruemmel111: calls 886 *** RIVER *** [9h Js Kc 5h] [Qh] demographix: checks Kruemmel111: checks Basically no info on villain, checkfolding river. Fine? Title: Re: Line check Post by: pleno1 on May 07, 2012, 03:52:48 PM yes. slightly bigger on the turn maybe. maybe a little bigger pre
Title: Re: Line check Post by: MC on May 07, 2012, 03:59:39 PM looks good to me
Title: Re: Line check Post by: Rupert on May 08, 2012, 05:05:22 AM Raise way more pre. Check the flop. As played check the turn. You played the river well.
Title: Re: Line check Post by: pleno1 on May 08, 2012, 12:34:07 PM why check turn, i agree with pre and think flop is reasonable, but as played I think turn is a bet/fold.
Title: Re: Line check Post by: cambridgealex on May 08, 2012, 05:09:09 PM 190 pre, check flop, as played bet turn bigger 920, check river is fine/standard.
Title: Re: Line check Post by: WotRTheChances on May 08, 2012, 05:52:00 PM 190 pre, check flop, as played bet turn bigger 920, check river is fine/standard. Played fine imo, pre is fine, can check flop, but this line is fine too. Title: Re: Line check Post by: Rupert on May 08, 2012, 06:21:04 PM pre is def terrible ur 120bb deep with a bunch of fish
Title: Re: Line check Post by: cambridgealex on May 08, 2012, 06:21:39 PM pre is def terrible ur 120bb deep with a bunch of fish 3x here Rupert? Title: Re: Line check Post by: SuuPRlim on May 09, 2012, 11:22:13 AM yh i just dont get these tiny pre-flop raises in tournaments when you're super deep pre-antes.
Title: Re: Line check Post by: Skippy on May 09, 2012, 11:30:23 AM Here's something I don't understand. Why do/should we raise smaller when there are antes? There is more money in the pot pre after all. Can anyone explain.
Personally I 3x it when I have more than 30bb, and 2.5x when I have 30bb or fewer (down to about 14bb, when I am open shoving, depending on how big the antes are relative to the big blind). All the cool people min-raise nowadays though, and I feel as old as Tikay. Anybody fancy giving me some explanation? Title: Re: Line check Post by: cambridgealex on May 09, 2012, 01:12:53 PM Here's something I don't understand. Why do/should we raise smaller when there are antes? There is more money in the pot pre after all. Can anyone explain. Personally I 3x it when I have more than 30bb, and 2.5x when I have 30bb or fewer (down to about 14bb, when I am open shoving, depending on how big the antes are relative to the big blind). All the cool people min-raise nowadays though, and I feel as old as Tikay. Anybody fancy giving me some explanation? Whilst far from being the best person to answer this, I'll have a go. One reason people minraise because it gives them a better price on a steal. Risking 2bbs to win 2.5bbs (blinds+antes), it doesn't need to work as often as risking 3 to win 2.5. So they have to minraise with they monsters for balance of course. You risk less of your stack each time, so when you only have 30bigs, it's quite a significant difference losing 2bb compared to 3. It also achieves more or less the same result, so there just isn't any point in the extra bb, it's just a waste. The deeper you are, the bigger you should open pre, and when the antes kick in, you're shallower than preantes so that's why ppl minraise more post antes than pre antes. Hope that helps. Title: Re: Line check Post by: Pugwashed on May 09, 2012, 01:38:17 PM Here's something I don't understand. Why do/should we raise smaller when there are antes? There is more money in the pot pre after all. Can anyone explain. Personally I 3x it when I have more than 30bb, and 2.5x when I have 30bb or fewer (down to about 14bb, when I am open shoving, depending on how big the antes are relative to the big blind). All the cool people min-raise nowadays though, and I feel as old as Tikay. Anybody fancy giving me some explanation? Whilst far from being the best person to answer this, I'll have a go. One reason people minraise because it gives them a better price on a steal. Risking 2bbs to win 2.5bbs (blinds+antes), it doesn't need to work as often as risking 3 to win 2.5. So they have to minraise with they monsters for balance of course. You risk less of your stack each time, so when you only have 30bigs, it's quite a significant difference losing 2bb compared to 3. It also achieves more or less the same result, so there just isn't any point in the extra bb, it's just a waste. The deeper you are, the bigger you should open pre, and when the antes kick in, you're shallower than preantes so that's why ppl minraise more post antes than pre antes. Hope that helps. Also worth mentioning that generally, the smaller you're opening the wider you can be opening without making yourself exploitable Title: Re: Line check Post by: LonOhRay on May 09, 2012, 01:39:40 PM Here's something I don't understand. Why do/should we raise smaller when there are antes? There is more money in the pot pre after all. Can anyone explain. Personally I 3x it when I have more than 30bb, and 2.5x when I have 30bb or fewer (down to about 14bb, when I am open shoving, depending on how big the antes are relative to the big blind). All the cool people min-raise nowadays though, and I feel as old as Tikay. Anybody fancy giving me some explanation? Pre antes, such as this hand average stacks are going to be huge - 100bb. When we have 100bb at t30 t50 t80 whatever and that is the average stack our opens will be weighted to value hands, there is simply no value to adding 120 chips to a 10k stack as a steal pre whilst inflating your vpip and pfr. When antes and blinds are bigger and average stacks are a lot smaller it is far more profitable to add 2.5bbs to a 30bb stack via stealing the blinds. - We open our range up a lot in later stages of the tournament as these blinds and antes are a lot more valuable. As Alex said, we want to risk the minimum with our (assumed) weaker range to get steals through so opening min is the cheapest way we can do this and has been "standard" for a good while now. Generally need ~43% of a success rate to break even on a min open as a steal pre with normal sized antes. It is a very basic concept and I laugh when I see regs opening to 100/125 UTG first level of the million for example. As played river is a check fold Title: Re: Line check Post by: pleno1 on May 09, 2012, 01:45:51 PM Here's something I don't understand. Why do/should we raise smaller when there are antes? There is more money in the pot pre after all. Can anyone explain. Personally I 3x it when I have more than 30bb, and 2.5x when I have 30bb or fewer (down to about 14bb, when I am open shoving, depending on how big the antes are relative to the big blind). All the cool people min-raise nowadays though, and I feel as old as Tikay. Anybody fancy giving me some explanation? Whilst far from being the best person to answer this, I'll have a go. One reason people minraise because it gives them a better price on a steal. Risking 2bbs to win 2.5bbs (blinds+antes), it doesn't need to work as often as risking 3 to win 2.5. So they have to minraise with they monsters for balance of course. You risk less of your stack each time, so when you only have 30bigs, it's quite a significant difference losing 2bb compared to 3. It also achieves more or less the same result, so there just isn't any point in the extra bb, it's just a waste. The deeper you are, the bigger you should open pre, and when the antes kick in, you're shallower than preantes so that's why ppl minraise more post antes than pre antes. Hope that helps. I know a Rastafarian gentleman who would be inclined to disagree with you there whiiiteeee boyyyy Title: Re: Line check Post by: Mordeca on May 09, 2012, 01:59:37 PM iv played the old skool 3x raise pre (a while ago now), then dropped it down to 2.75, then 2.5x now i've been playing the min raise game for about 4 months now (all online,micro stakes)
It seems to be working out a lot better for the reasons mentioned above. on the steal attempts, i think fish in the BB will call either a 3x or a 2x bet, doesn't really matter to them, as they love playin out of postion with 37o anyway. have seen alot more players folding to min raises too. |