blonde poker forum

Villain is decent and definitely toughest spot at table, he thinks similar about me and we both realise how soft most of the table is so obviously have avoided each other a little bit but he has 3bet me a couple times, I've 3b him maybe 8 times and he has peeled 3 times and folded 5 times

He has around 220k which is a big stack at this point, ive got 130k

He opens @500/1000 to 2400, I 3b to 5700 in position. He calls

Flop Qh Th 4s. He checks I bet 7200 he calls

Turn  Ahrt. He checks I bet 11200, he check raises to 37,100. I call

River 6c. He shoves.

What's his range? What's the lightest we should be calling it off with?

Where does he open from? Think it's quite important.

If I had kj with one heart id probably not do a fold. Feels like he other has a really stubborn kqhx k10hx
 Meh should fold j9hh pre, j8hh pre, he can occasionally have 89hh and 78hh.

We can probably give him an estimated number of value combos but positions would be super important as we can give him less combos of queens or 10s etc depending on position. 8 3bets is quite a lot though and sometimes people just blow.

Really horrible spot vs this player because he's probably going to be aware that he'll likely be able to get you to fold AQ, probably even sets - all of which you can have with this line to the river but if he hasn't been too out of line I can't see him just blowing up for 130bbs in this spot vs a good player with a completely uncapped range. I assume you've been pretty active to this point and your preflop 3betting range here is gunna be pretty wide which I think it should be if he's deciding not to start a 4/5/6betting war.

He doesn't have AA, sometimes will 4bet QQ so I don't think his value range is much wider than flushes and I guess from the paragraph above I don't think he's bluffing so as disgustingly exploitable as it sounds I think the lightest I'm calling is  Jh 8h and even then its hard for him to have a worse heart combo than that...

He opened utg+2, I 3b cutoff

Thoughts On akxh equalling j8hh?

I actually was at the complete bottom end of my range and suggested it was the same as Aces anyway at dinner last night

Tbf probably should say my hand as it helps with blocker theorys

I have A5os no heart

For that to be true then he has to be turning smaller heart combos into bluffs to get us off exactly J9hh and J8hh? I think thats a bit optimistic.

Would agree with Dave that A5o = AA

Think in this vacuum id fold  4h 5h. his hh combos are stronger than yours and i think he just abso has it given the table and current dynamic.

So i agree that specifically here A5 is very similar to AA which would obv make folding the bad flush bad theoretically but i just think he completely nuttered here.

What? And what? Must be too early in the morning for me to understand these posts. Also agree that AA = A5 here tho

I guess this just depends on how much of a sicko the guy is. Can he really not be value shoving sets or a decent 2 pair here given his perception of your abilities?

Surely if you've got the flush you get it in on the turn? You must have something though to call his 37k. I think he can shove here with 2 pair and get you to lay down better some of the time and also call with worse some of the time.

If you're certain he can't be value betting then we're at the nuts or air thing. I think he's more likely nuttered and aired so a fold looks appropriate.

You're still really deep and you've got what looks like a great table so it's not really a time to be a hero.

why are his heart combos so strong? he has 3 combos, kj, 78, 89 and even 78 and 89 he may fold pre a decent % of the time whist kj doesnt raise turn 100% of the time.

I think he c raises KJ hh on flop for sure and probably J9 hh

These guys are supposed to be good though right?

Why does jamming 45hh have to be a bluff? He can give Dave credit for looking for a hero call surely?

Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but these guys are playing a $25k comp so I'd expect some funky schnizzles.

Ok...no idea where that came from. I should probably just stick to lurking after my sessions :P

I don't think that J8hh = AxKh but not for that reason. He can legit have worse heart combos for value. Very plausible that he takes this exact like with 78hh, 89hh imo. He's now peeled 6/9 3bets oop so I think he can have those hands a lot even though he probably shouldn't

Fold pre obv

we have a wider range of hh hands pf and he has a stronger range of hh hands.

Most of his hh combos are blocked but we can habve  Kh 6h / Jh 7h etc wereas he really cant. This makes it a very suicidal spot to take off imo which is why i think hes got it here. the only hand i think he could do this with are  Kh with an ace or a queen and i really dont think he has AKo ever by the turn

Yep agree with dave, was gunna put in my original reply that this is a pretty suicidal blow from him if he doesn't have it here imo

I wouldn't be 3 betting the toughest spot at the table who has me covered with a5 off unless it was part of some greater game plan to stop him opening so much or some other such meta game stuff.
Having hit the turn i'm checking back as i dont see many hands calling that dont have you beat.  Maybe pick off a river bluff or let him value cut himself with qx.
Having got raised on the turn i'm snap folding a5 - The turn card is really good for your range so villain should expect you to have a strong hand here so don't see why he'd suddenly decide to take off with some one pair hand that he's bluffing with.  Also he's opened early and called a 3 bet oop so his hand should be much more weighted to suited cards i.e. he shouldnt have a lot of his potential bluffing hands such as kh10x.
Even if he does have say kh10x surely hes more likely to call than raise.

If he's value raising I wouldn't expect him to raise worse than a flush here and when he bets the river im prob calling with a 9 high flush or better.

Obviously im 3betting to stop him opening and metagame stuff- if he is never 4betting me, 3 betting is borderline but fine and if it stops him opening as little as 10% of his range in future then its definitely fine particularly as theres so little chance of me getting cold 4d behind.

I think checking the turn is somewhere between bad and terrible, its what id expect most of the field to do with the hand, but its a card im going to barrel a decent amount of time with a large part of my range, he is going to call with loads of hands that have decent equity and i beat, he is so unlikely to check raise given the table dynamics and gameflow- im far more likely to get value on the turn than on the river and i was 90% sure he just check calls with any sets, 2pairs and maybe even KJ no heart. When he does cr, I just think he is is ridiculously polarised and can barely see any combinations that he plays like this. At the time I even thought he wouldnt play baby flushes this fast, just because he wouldnt even be that comfortable with them given gameflow and the fact im just barreling away.

I really like his line in this particular tournament if he has like KQ QJ etc, ideally with a flush blocker but even so im gonna fold a huge portion of my range on the river even when I get there because table is so soft. Which is why AA=A5 anyway

Agree you're unlikely to get checkraised very often on the turn but what do you expect to get called by?  Theres a lot of hands that have you beat that never fold turn but very few hands you have beat that will call  - Only hands i would expect to call you on turn that you beat are prob broadways that have a heart.  Im all up for thin value but dont think this is a good board for it - think youre over repping your hand.

Also if im villain in this hand i wouldnt expect my opponent to be barreling this turn card that often as
i) it hits my range reasonably well
ii)  For you to be barrelling you'd have to either have a no/low equity type hand (which most good players dont bluff with) or a hand with some sort of showdown value (so again i think they might think youd be more inclined to see a free river).
iii)  When im faced with the 3 bet pre im weigthing my opponents range towards high cards - so again id give them credit for a good hand and am less likely to call down light.

All this means im not calling down light here very often at all which makes betting a5 here on the turn not great.

Do you plan on value betting a brick river?

Can I ask why this is theoretically bad pls? ta

Also betting the turn opens you up to getting bluff raised...........

Well actually, this isn't strictly true of this spot at all since I think about it more, but the theory behind what I said initially is the concept of spots where folding can be bad, and these are spots mainly where our opponent gets really easy bluffs, and those are

a) Our Range is capped, meaning the best possible hands available we can't have given the action (note, when I say cant have I mean very likely dont, as anyone can have anything at any time :D) and our opponent knows it. We HAVE to call here with the best hands we actually have otherwise he uses the fact he CAN have the nuts, we CANT to auto profit by betting his entire range, and us folding out entire range.

b) spots where we are both uncapped with extremely thin value ranges - this spots are extremely difficult to bluff in because the opponent CAN have "it" but at the same time "it" is such few combo's of hands that one person HAS to be calling wider than "it" some % of the time to avoid giving his opponent a really easy bluff (most usually with some sort of blocker) I guess this is applicable to this spot NEARLY but because we have quite a few legit flush flush hands and are 100% uncapped I don't think it really applies. But cos 4h 5h basically = A5o theoretically it's really bad for us not to call a decent % of the time, I would often randomise this though on the strength of my hand, as in I'd call with 4h 5h and fold A5o barring live reads and dynamic (which we have here hence why I said I'd fold 4h 5h specifically here) as we let him bet profitably with his entire range if our calling range is so thin - Theoretically.

thanks for clearing that up   :o

Breaking down the individual hand is all good. But looking at the game overall I'd be pretty disappointed if this was my exit hand. If you 3bet him 8x and he folded 5x, only peeling 3x, seems pretty sweet already + these soft villains. Think when he gets aggro on the turn I would give up rather than get into some suited combo leveling war with CL. Better spots to put ourselves in at this table. Looks like some big clash of the titans cock swinging contest to me.

I don't really understand the turn bet/call. His range smashes this board (esp given he's f3b a few times) and hits our perceived range pretty hard so I think he has a value hand almost always when he c/r turn. B/f turn could be ok (are we ever bluffing some river when he c/c?) but I'm inclined to agree with mondeoman on checking back, and I think I prob bet in these spots more than most.

I'd def be calling river now if I b/c turn because it just assumes he's semi bluffing a shit ton, and he isn't going to semi bluff and check river now unless he is clueless and just clicking buttons. Basically if your turn play is good then so is calling river.

what happened the previous 3 times he peeled?