blonde poker forum

Have  Ks 7d 6d 8s Kd, one limp, I open to 7 playing 180, 7 ways to the flop, I'm 4th to act under the gun. Flop  6c 9c   6h,  standard gr dire, easily most ridiculous game in the world, super loose, very passive pre, money goes in pre with some regularity, two good regs behind, three players in front would donk lead nut hands. Bet/get in??

We've flopped trips but have 2 outs to a redraw which in 6o is pretty horrendous. Only reason i dont mind so much vs fishier players is they wont be anywhere near as nutted if we're going with it.

Am defo gonna lead but getting it in is very read/player dependant. Not liking it 1 bit though

This is 5 card PLO right? Or is it a mistype?

Tbh, this could even be a check-fold at 4 card PLO, given the very marginal strength of your hand combined with it being a super-multiway pot; although bet-folding is fine too. At 5 card PLO, however, this is a no-brainer check-fold. It is not close.

Even considering bet/getting-in this hand is suicidal.

Yeah sorry 5 card PLO.

vs alot of the DTD regs (im assuming here this is at DTD), I dont think its as bad as you think. Some of them are absolutely shit.

However saying that, I am pretty spewy as hell at PLO with more than 4 cards. Would probably class myself as value lol. Also skimmed past the fact theres 7 players in the pot OTF. Defo not even close

Yep, some of them are very bad. And one of the ways in which they are bad is that if they were in hero's place in this exact spot they would usually stack off here. We can 'outplay them' by not doing the same thing, and thus gain a reciprocal edge.


Lol... that sort of proves my point right?  ;)


Yep, agreed.

JK... who are you BTW? I am Stu Barnett, have we played together? I am still getting to know who everyone is on Blonde.

Haha yeah. I blame it on the inner spew.

Im Jamie Kay. Probably know me/ill know you by face if you play at DTD

Hi Jamie. Can't place you, but you're right we'd probably recognise each other by face. I don't go to DTD too much any more since the good cash games pretty much died... maybe once every six weeks at most.

First of all I'd like to point out that most posters in PHA are pretty pedantic about stuff like terminology and would snap close this thread without replying. I'd usually be one of these pedants, but since I think it'll be of future benefit to everybody to see more posts with more replies I'll just clear a couple of things up.

First action is always an open so the first guy open limps, you make it 7 and UTG is third to act


To the actual hand - I'd definitely just limp along pre with this hand. I don't think that it has enough nut potential to take to a flop that is always going to be multi-way and you're rarely going to be in position. You can flop top set which is obviously the big positive but you're drawing to two non-nut flushes and your baby rundown is easily dominated. Second nut straights and second nut flushes are going to be really dangerous because from my experience in these games people rarely bluff but it can be pretty tough to find folds vs a punty lineup where almost everyone is playing a VPIP >70%. I haven't played 4/5/6 in about 18 months but the few times that I did I was a reasonably big loser because of this. If your default/autopilot actions tend to be a little stationy (as mine were 18 months ago)(in before still are ldo) then this is gunna get really expensive really quickly.

As Stu said above this an absolute snap check/fold.

You could bet/fold if you thought that there were hands that would call that you beat and that you have good equity against but I don't think that this is the case here. When you bet, you're pretty under it as soon as someone even calls. In this sort of game the nut flush draw isn't folding the flop for one bet, neither are wraps. Here is a simulation of your hand vs a weaker non-house 6 with a bowl flush draw which I think is probably the lightest anyone gets it in: http://www.pokeritieto.fi/muut/pokerilaskuri/p500_id/91089

Sorry was posted over the phone and in between hands. Game isn't at dtd, but pretty similar although I've only had 10 hours experience ingame. Default is check/fold here? I led for 50 and everyone folded, I might fold to a raise depending on player, proc folding to 5 and getting it in vs 2, but unlikely for some to have it here. I'm 4th to act flop, under the gun +1, under the gun limped and is new to Omaha. In my opinion raise 7 > limp here, as we get some scrap out and hopefully get better position, fair? Dan sometimes people would get in 65572 here, but point taken!

You seem to be struggling to accept that this is a really simple check-fold. And you're even considering getting the money all-in if raised, depending on the player! Honestly, it really isn't close. Check and fold.

Preflop is ok, but over-limping is at least as good if not better as Dan says. You have a crap hand really, you basically have KK and 3 rags. Small wrap cards and non-nut flush draws have very little value in 5 and 6 card PLO, especially in games in which multiway pots are the norm.

Why are you trying to get trash to fold pre? Trash makes up the vast majority of a range that your hand plays well against pre.

I don't dispute that sometimes if you get it in you'll get shown 65572 here but to show a profit we need to be ahead of his range as a whole, not just a few of the very worst hands.

trivial chk/fold imo we can't stand any action at all.

Every now and then it'll check through mind and then depending on the turn card we could consider betting, but even when flop chks through there will be a lot of turn cards to chk/fold as well.

Good way to think is that you are vs 30 other cards. which is half the deck, it's a lot of cards to be facing when we have only 3 cards we can start value-betting on,

5 card game needs a rework, I thought I was mindnumbingly tight before, sigh. Ok cheers guys lots to think about, fantastic response time too!!!

More of this sort of stuff, please, love it.

I fold this too, with barely even a sigh. To be fair, I fold most everything.

I think im getting to the turn if the game is as fishy as it sounds. You can kinda get a good feel as to whether you are good just by judging your opponent on bet size on turn.

Dont mind your flop bet, but i think we can happily bet less, around just under half pot.

I know I'm just repeating what myself, Dan and Dave have already said, but it is really bad to decide to 'get to the turn' with this hand. Look, I have used underline and bold ... that's how strongly I am trying to make the point ;) I wish I knew how to do big fonts, because I'd have given it a font 24 or something lol. It is not at all close, it is such an easy fold.

As regards getting a good feel for whether you are good, well this is actually part of the problem. You have terrible visibility with this hand; even if you hit an underful on the turn it is very tough to play. Of course sometimes you can benefit from live tells, whether they be bet-sizing stuff or physical mannerisms - and this always allows us to take a few more liberties in a live game as compared to an online game. But continuing with this hand is taking this much too far. You have essentially missed the flop with your hand. Honestly, this is not going to be a profitable spot for you.


Just want to repeat another point that I made: The main way that a multicard PLO game is going to be fishy is because players will stack off with your hand in precisely this sort of spot. Don't be the same as your opponents, because you will be simply joining them in their fishiness.

I was genuinely unsure, that's why I posted about 3 hands after! Agree the more I look, the worse betting looks. Totally agree with what your saying, and guess your right with the limping. What's the worst hand we get in? 3 overs to the 9? Like kkqj6? Obviously the pair in our hand kinda sucks, but we're never drawing dead!

The point about 65527 wasn't meaning I should put it in, but more, this gr how the game plays. Twice I saw people call off 100ish bigs with non nut flushes, no backup

Appreciate your point. Not sure why people use the terms 'terrible' and 'really bad' when we have flopped strong. Think those terms are overused. As per original post, we are just rofling around in the game we are playing less than optimally with 50 bigs. Dont see going broke here is terrible. Maybe not optimum but certainly not terrible.

Anyone gamble these days or do people just datamine millions of hands and find the strongest routes through hands? That isnt a dig at anyone specific, just if i didnt punt now and again my head would asplode.

Well we are pretty dead vs 99xxx!!

Worst hand I'd get in would be 96xxx, with at least two of the xxx being overs to the 9. And I wouldn't necessarily feel that excited to be getting it in either. I can't emphasise enough how likely it is that IF YOU GET ACTION you are going to be facing at least 96xxx here, and often 99xxx. That extra card makes a huge difference, as does the fact that it was 7 ways to the flop.


I agree that those terms are often over-used sometimes. But not in this case. We have not flopped strong. We have essentially missed this flop.



Hero started the hand with 90bbs. If he had a 50bb stack then it becomes more interesting to get all-in here, although I'd usually want better kickers. Much shorter than 50bbs and it becomes a comfortable stack off.


Dude, I play so many hands terribly without meaning to... there is simply no need for me to TRY to play bad. Besides, life is a punt :)

3 outs vs 99 man :-) 6 and four overs to the nine a stack off too?

The odds oracle does equities for 5card PLO, as I know you have a copy ;) you should give it a go :)up


nope :( I had to learn not to make people gamble though as they won't and you'll just do your money

Haha. Sorry my misread i thought we were £110 deep at 2-2.

Lildave - i certainly wasnt referring to you as a nongambler. You sound pretty puntastico!!

One question regarding PLO for u guys. It is safe to assume it is fine to 47 bet all in for 5 million bigs on a  Aspades 9s 7c flop with  Ts 8s Ad 9h

No. I can't emphasise enough just how nitty you need to play in multi-card PLO games when the flop is multiway.

Honeybadger really is trying here to help. Just listen to him.

Ok cheers, thanks for the help. Definitely helped a lot. Time to get odds oracle out and smash equities for hours!

Edit: Strak I'm listening, just asking questions too, I'm not sure if I'm coming across herecorrectly, but I'm most certainly taking on advice. I felt the need to clarify the exact standards in the game etc, to check, instead of not giving enough info and not learning because the answers would change. Brutal someone described this as rofling around, quite possibly true, my 4card game is ok, and 5/6 isn't quite there. I knew nitty gr right but didn't realise how tight. I knew this was a spot I felt wasn't right and wanted to check. Advice is perfect as always. I'll post when I can, only play when its a+ or hold'em has died, and even then I need to fancy it, cheers guys, especially honeybadger and Mr Morgan, having to answer the questions with, still fold must be frustrating, but it is appreciated!

I defo am fine with the advice. For me i would take his line if we were just a touch deeper and actually grinding the game rather than rofling around in a game we dont know a lot about.

yup you can go pretty nutso here and feel great about it

Working from change colour, 1 left is font style, 1 more left is the A with an up and down arrow.


clicking that will get the following with all square brackets, anything inside is now big :) {size=24pts][/size}


IS IT

Thanks  Mr  Bean

Tried to edit earlier and didn't hit post. Sorry to bump, just want the edit seen