blonde poker forum

This was played by a mate in the 10k PLHE yesterday.

I think preflop and flop are pretty standard, although hero could have reraised in both spots, he's a little on the conservative side and he's playing Phil mfkin Ivey.

Hero has approx 40k and Ivey has about the same.

Blinds 400-800.

Everyone passes to Ivey in the sb who makes it 2k to go.

Hero in the BB has  Ahrt Jh and calls.

Flop  9h 9s 6h

Ivey bets 2500 hero calls.

Turn  8h Ivey checks.

Hero?

Against who?

raise pre (and call shove)

Raise flop

ZOMG we have made a flush vs Phil Ivey bvb who cares if the board is paired lets get paiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii (d)

Meh, yes, he should have reraised pre and on the flop.

But he didn't.

As played, what do we do here?

Pot it?

Half pot?

If he's solid a pot bet would look pretty strong. Think 1/3 pot bet

3.7k trying to pick it up after the check.

I don't think it really matters what you do here Keith because your preflop + flop calls make your range completly uncapped. I think he'd expect you to do exactly this with your nutted hands (9x and better) and he won't expect a random (especially with your appearance) to be floating this flop very much if ever.

He's c/folding a huge %age of the time here imo, I guess 1/3rd pot to try and rep 6x/8x and hope that he takes off. The flop flat leaves very little air in your range though, so its gunna be hard to get him to smash much money in.


I think you should 3b-to-5b pre here. Raising the flop I think would be better than flatting and we're happy to get it in vs the numerous FDs that we dominate, some overpairs to the 6 or possibly induce some spaz.

Yep, he bet 4000.

Ivey called. Pot 17k.

River  Qh

Ivey checks.

What now?

Wasn't me Dan.

English guy of a similar age though.

Flop call could be straight draw, straight draw with over card or Ax?

check to induce

b/fold 8775


Its too early in the morning to be reading properly :P

Too good.

Hero bet 9k.

Ivey shoved.

No way we can call, right?

Soul read middle aged Englishman now considering givng up poker.

terrible spot and board to bet fold IMO

Reasoning?

Guy, have you lost your brain!

3bet call AJs 50bb's deep vs Ivey in a $10k POT LIMIT HOLDEM event? Must be

This is a spot that is IMPOSSIBLE to bet/call imo, because you CAN have all the best hands, Ahrt X, 99 96 98 88 etc so it's very very difficult for him so bluff into you when your range can include all the best hands (true he might hero read you for a flush and bluff with a 9, but vs a random player in his eyes and knowing he is Phil Ivey so people are prolly more likely to call vs him I don't think he'll bluff all that often) with no history it's a dreadful board to do anything but fold.

The river bet is quite small though which is the only reason I'm slightly tilted about folding

we have an absolutely nutted hand bvb (and we are unknown) vs an exceptionally talented player

In only considering river action I am never bet folding an absolutely nutted hand against a guy  who is capable of seeing a bet fold for what it is and doesnt care about 10k

check/ call is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than bet fold  in this spot vs ivey

ignore all that - im being a spazz - i suddenly had us OOP

ermmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,

meh, bet fold.................. makes me wanna puke

so your gona check behind the nut flush otr? or your gona bet/call the nut flush on the river in a spot where ivey is bluffing close to 0%?

either is very bad imo.

Best that I start this off by saying I'm a recreational player, so this isn't likely to carry - even justify - as much weight as the more educated views on here. I just wonder, especially as the hand was put on here for opinions, there isn't a case for the defence.

Ivey is repping 96 or poss a straight flush. We can safely assume that he has our hero on the ace of hearts, so now he has to get the most value. How often does the nut flush call a check-raise, in the face of a repped boat or better? Are we to assume that the hero's image is such that he would be likely to fold in that situation, too?

The Ace calls a value bet of 12k close to 100% of the time, whereas the blocker-bet-for-value the Ace makes is likely to be less than that. My argument would be, therefore, that the check-raise has more bluffs in it than is being suggested, because there's a good reason to lead - even lead closer to pot - and get value.

Turning this whole thing on its head, if Ivey thinks that your friend thinks at my level (and will, therefore, hero call with the Ace), you should tell your friend to give Ivey a slap for this egregious slur on his character.

Happy to be told where I'm massively wrong, of course!

Snap call

3b pre,

raise flop

check turn wth intention of raising some rivers

will edit with reasons after sesh

Im all for 3betting PF, just for value, we cant 5bet because this whole 4/6b business isn't an Ivey thing, he just peels lol. This being said I'm also in favor of the pot control argument, either I think is fine.

He can't exploit us with a river c/r because our range is too strong, coupled with the "Ivey Effect" which Im sure he'll be well aware will generally make people value bet tighter and hero-call wider vs him do we really think he is c/r jamming into a random players uncapped range  in a pot limit tournament? I'm yet to be convinced.

So you think we should 3bf because he won't 4b us light and will just peel loads? I'm not sure that is an accurate assumption. I'd flat pre and play a single raised pot ip vs a range we dominate, but I could be convinced that 3b is better. Raise/call flop I think is best vs a thinking opponent with these stack sizes, he has plenty of room to go Paul Jackson on us. Check back turn and bet/raise some rivers (dumb exploitive play but I think it works pretty well in this particular spot).

im fine with heros line pre and flop tbh.

EDIT: whole line in this hand i like and i think i play it exactly the same

always check back turn?

To all those saying we should bet the river... what exactly are you hoping that villain is going to station it off against us with? Especially given our image is that of an old dude (i.e. he probably infers we are tight and wouldn't bet the river with worse than the nut flush). A good player is not going to call the river with a worse hand than ours, given the image that we have. And Phil Ivey is a pretty good player from what I hear. The nut flush is very close to the bottom of our perceived value range here, and going for thin value against Ivey is a dangerous and optimistic move to make.

As played it is an easy fold once he jams. We are at the bottom of our range and can have all the full houses (plus a few straight flushes ofc), so it's not like he's going to be bluffing us willy nilly. He's a great player, not some young aggro spewtard. If he has somehow soul read us for the exact hand that we have and is bluffing to make us fold this exact hand... well we just got outplayed by a great player. In all other circumstances though, if we call we just donated all our chips to a great player.

rofl!

I think flatting is better than 3betting, pretty fine with 3betting although I wouldn't wanna do it in game, would rather play small pots vs Ivey even OOP he'll prolly have J8s, we'll flop an Ace and somehow won't win.

We have AJs, we need Aaron, he's a wizard with AJ

Not necessarily, I think betting is fine. Just offering this as an alternative line because I think the default for most people would be to bet here close to 100%. I think a check is pretty effective because I doubt we get two streets off worse and his turn check range should be fairly polarised. Checking back allows us to get called v frequently by the strong part of his range otr, we can also go for pretty big value and bet close to pot. Also, we cap our range and can justify calling the river when he rips it :)

After thinking about for a couple of days I think the river is a call.

He knows we have  Ahrt. He knows that we know he knows. We know that he knows that we know that he knows.

But he doesn't know that we know that he knows that we know that he knows.

So it must be a call.

Love it :)

Out-levelling Ivey = Easy money

But, what happens if he DIDNT know that we know he knows in the first place, does that make it a fold?

I think ur friend pretty much nailed this hand tbh. Maybe 3b pre is the only thing he could do different, but vs Ivey im folding to a 4bet. Ivey will prob just prefer to peel and own post even oop here rather than get it in at all light. If you do get it in pre here you are pretty screwed.

This is what Ivey does to you. You have to remember to keep it simple and sometimes he just has it... Trust me :(

warren wooldridge?

The Ivey affect...

People are too scared to value bet thinly vs him because they are scared he'll bluff raise them.

People hero call him wider because they don't want to be bluffed by him.

and he knows all this most peoples first hand v ivey and hes played 10000 people playing their first hand v him!

Hes in a win win spot.. too sick