blonde poker forum

very first hand, thoughts?


PokerStars Hand #83323338846: Tournament #589010686, $50+$5 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2012/07/14 22:59:57 CET [2012/07/14 16:59:57 ET]
Table '589010686 4' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: pads1161 (3000 in chips)
Seat 2: ldgf (3000 in chips)
Seat 3: jareth3542 (3000 in chips)
Seat 4: The_Stat (3000 in chips)
Seat 5: TBuck19 (3000 in chips)
Seat 6: UncaJ5 (3000 in chips)
Seat 7: isileiskmane (3000 in chips)
Seat 8: Ju4ok (3000 in chips)
Seat 9: OshriAK (3000 in chips)
ldgf: posts small blind 10
jareth3542: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pads1161 [5h Ah]
The_Stat: folds
TBuck19 has timed out
TBuck19: folds
TBuck19 is sitting out
UncaJ5: folds
isileiskmane: folds
Ju4ok: raises 40 to 60
OshriAK: folds
pads1161: calls 60
ldgf: folds
jareth3542: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d 2h 4d]
Ju4ok: bets 75
pads1161: raises 2865 to 2940 and is all-in
Ju4ok: folds
Uncalled bet (2865) returned to pads1161
pads1161 collected 300 from pot
pads1161: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 300 | Rake 0
Board [3d 2h 4d]
Seat 1: pads1161 (button) collected (300)
Seat 2: ldgf (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: jareth3542 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: The_Stat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: TBuck19 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: UncaJ5 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: isileiskmane folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Ju4ok folded on the Flop
Seat 9: OshriAK folded before Flop (didn't bet)

You miss clicked ???

nono

Someone else playing on your account??

its the first hand, if we raise normal hes just going to fold air anyway, if we pflat then alot of bad turns/rivers and we lose value.

doubt he folds 88+ maybe wider.

Why would you think that?

Pads spewing as normal

why not post why you think something is bad instead of posting a useless non-constructive post, especially when you chastise others on skype to meabout their contributions to PHA?

stfu, it's just a needle.

This is like the sng play when you openship AA/KK on the first hand lol. Not sure whether i love it here or not but i deffo don't hate this!

I honestly don't know what to say lol

Very poor play IMO.
I think you are throwing away a lot of equity by doing this here.
You are almost never going to get an over pair to put chips in here. And you have an ace meaning there are 50% less aa combos anyway.
You might get them in ahead against a big draw but this is cancelled out by the fact that occasionally you will actually walk into the flopped nut straight, or even the straght flush draw.
I

thought about this alot tonight, spoke to 10+ people about it and really happy with he jam now ESPECIALLY on this exact board/texture.

I think you'll get overpairs to call off quite a bit here tbh

lol yeah our survey says even a big %age of winning midstakes regs don't fold QQ to a jam

#exploitttttttt

Love it :)

I think we can get even called by as wide as TT+. OPR/SS is also crucial anybody who's good enough/can be bothered to search pleno should fold basically everything. If we opr the guy ourself and see that he's recreational or a mass multitabler then jamming i really like here. Standard lines prob better for everyone else.

seems fine vs a random 1st hand

Can you share the rest of that survey's answers please!?

think id snap his arm off with any pair tbh.

yeh was my feeling that most ppl would.

i like it... like you said even if you raise normal hes folding all air anyways..

I don't like it, you have 2 hearts with one on the board, and the nuts, and you have position on him on later streets? What was your thought process? Did u expect him to call?

And also, let's pretend you didn't shove, would you always be re raising on this flop once he c/bet? Do u think that if you see a turn card, depending on how much he bets you could have a stronger feel for what sort of hand he has and then base the turn card on whether to raise or not?

I'm folding 67 without a diamond here, nh

think its dreadful. People are just gonna LOL fold overpairs here, yeh you might get called by QQ+, but i think there are a lot more spazzes out here who will tool out if you just raise the flop, than there are people willing to call off here with a small part of their range. Id much prefer this play in a 100f+ where its more reg filled. The 55f players are more recreational and wont mind folding overpairs in order to enjoy their game for a while.

Thats really interesting, cheers for your opinions.

Don't you think that on the very frist hand of a tournament, the recretional players are more likely to fold rather than randomly tooling out on such a board. Also if lets say they call 1010+ here isn't there just too many bad turn cards vs your perceived range of them? I.E they will fold 1010+ on some of the bad cards, or at least slow down a lot.

What exact part of their range are you targetting for raising rather than jamming? Is it specifically 55-1010? What turn cards do you think they will continue to call down with?

If you're playing 15 tables on a Sunday and in a 55f you have 1010 here I can imagine a lot of regs just flicking it in.

I'm really interested in your thoughts here though especially why its dreadful, maybe we could even work out the EV of jamming taking into account average turn bet sizes they will call on a variety of turn cards with their range etc etc. Maybe it will turn out to be really bad.

Why are regs so likely to call with overpairs? I just don't see it.

You either have a set or a huge combo draw virtually always.

I never like to post in pha because it only highlights how dumb I am, so hear goes again.

Are you saying that for every 1 time you get a call for all those chips it is more profitable than the x amount of times you take a more str8 forward approach and win smaller pots.

Jamming for me mostly gets you called by the nuts,sets, possible flush n str8 draws ( all have a chance of busting us but we could have got away from pur hand playing the streets) and folds out hands that we milk down the streets or spew off.

I think the main problem you have with the play is not the frequency with which they CALL with there OP's - could be so many random factors that influence that, but that by sheer probabilitys of the situation a very high % of the time they will have no hand at all and have to fold, there is absolutley no manipulative strategy you can employ to change that either.

Pro's are when it works, it REALLY, REALLY works.

I think there is no way this could have more EV than a regular raise, when you consider the small profit increase every float/silly A high call/5x call/spazz that occurs during the 95%~ of the times when he has no choice but to fold.

However as an exploitative line vs a certain opponent it's obviously going to be very good some of the time, I think you'd need some info/reads on him and if this works vs a reg then that guy needs to go to the job centre and no proffessional poker player should be hitting the call btn here, thats ridiculous. However from what I've seen of online tourney regs, I actually do believe some of the will call here lol

Is it a peel pre if our best way to play the hand when we flop something solid is to lol jam?

I'd expect a big chunk of calls @ stakes below this, probably makes it fine for sunday funday

Made up the switcheroo hand history and polled a few mid stakes regs with hero's hand as QQ. The most common response was to call and take a note. A couple would snap it off and only one said definitely folding.

lol, why don't I play more tournaments.

just to add, I'm not saying that good players should fold which makes it a bad play, as plenty will call.

This doesn't alter the fact its a terrible, terrible call

it is vs pleno, but randoms do funny things and its hard to opr people ingame/keep track of regs

It's a vital tool in certain situations. Would rather play a few less tables than not have a few seconds to OPR

if you dont have time to OPR mid-hand, and dont know anything about the guy jamming, it's a fold.

so people call off with QQ+ how about the other 95% of his range?

Trigg did you ever feel the urge to Post in the Marc Wright thread as a mate?

I saw msg but didn't have time to respond. would fold QQ there for sure early, though I think you sent the hh as 6max and therefore it would be closer with how spacky people are at 6max.


+1 for those saying just raise not jam, could be super sexy to do a misclick raise size which essentially commits but can potentially induce some wider stack offs.

find the idea of people calling QQ but folding 99 quite interesting.

stop stirring mate

I had an old hand history on betfair where I hit a royal flush on a paired board in what was a very small pot.  I shoved 200 bbs in to a tiny pot thinking lets see if he can fold his full house or quads.  He was a fishy slow playing type.  He let his time bank run down and called.  It is a few years ago but think he only had a straight.

I am fairly surprised you get so many calls as the shove is an old school theory from Sklanskys theory of poker.  Maybe these things come around and all the overbetting these days makes it optimal.

I have been loling about all day. I was on Marc's side in the minority obv. Don't know anything so hope you have not fell out.

Call.

:) mucked em face down and you well know it

I actually employ this tactic when I have a monster early in freeroll tourneys and 2 cent MTTs. The reason is that the level is so loose that bad players will call because they don't care because the stakes are so low and are very loose and good players will call with mediocre hands because they won't put you on anything (they'll just think it's another loose donk).

If you don't have time to OPR mid hand you need a new computer, or an extra screen..