lol

[PizzicatoXev]

Love it

[muckthenuts]

I think we can get even called by as wide as TT+. OPR/SS is also crucial anybody who's good enough/can be bothered to search pleno should fold basically everything. If we opr the guy ourself and see that he's recreational or a mass multitabler then jamming i really like here. Standard lines prob better for everyone else.

[NigDawG]

seems fine vs a random 1st hand

[jackinbeat]

thought about this alot tonight, spoke to 10+ people about it and really happy with he jam now ESPECIALLY on this exact board/texture.

lol yeah our survey says even a big %age of winning midstakes regs don't fold QQ to a jam

#exploitttttttt

Can you share the rest of that survey's answers please!?

[AlexMartin]

Very poor play IMO.
I think you are throwing away a lot of equity by doing this here.
You are almost never going to get an over pair to put chips in here. And you have an ace meaning there are 50% less aa combos anyway.
You might get them in ahead against a big draw but this is cancelled out by the fact that occasionally you will actually walk into the flopped nut straight, or even the straght flush draw.
I

think id snap his arm off with any pair tbh.

[pleno1]

Very poor play IMO.
I think you are throwing away a lot of equity by doing this here.
You are almost never going to get an over pair to put chips in here. And you have an ace meaning there are 50% less aa combos anyway.
You might get them in ahead against a big draw but this is cancelled out by the fact that occasionally you will actually walk into the flopped nut straight, or even the straght flush draw.
I

think id snap his arm off with any pair tbh.

yeh was my feeling that most ppl would.

[youthnkzR]

i like it... like you said even if you raise normal hes folding all air anyways..

[dreenie]

I don't like it, you have 2 hearts with one on the board, and the nuts, and you have position on him on later streets? What was your thought process? Did u expect him to call?

[dreenie]

And also, let's pretend you didn't shove, would you always be re raising on this flop once he c/bet? Do u think that if you see a turn card, depending on how much he bets you could have a stronger feel for what sort of hand he has and then base the turn card on whether to raise or not?

[LonOhRay]

I'm folding 67 without a diamond here, nh

[action man]

think its dreadful. People are just gonna LOL fold overpairs here, yeh you might get called by QQ+, but i think there are a lot more spazzes out here who will tool out if you just raise the flop, than there are people willing to call off here with a small part of their range. Id much prefer this play in a 100f+ where its more reg filled. The 55f players are more recreational and wont mind folding overpairs in order to enjoy their game for a while.

[pleno1]

think its dreadful. People are just gonna LOL fold overpairs here, yeh you might get called by QQ+, but i think there are a lot more spazzes out here who will tool out if you just raise the flop, than there are people willing to call off here with a small part of their range. Id much prefer this play in a 100f+ where its more reg filled. The 55f players are more recreational and wont mind folding overpairs in order to enjoy their game for a while.

Thats really interesting, cheers for your opinions.

Don't you think that on the very frist hand of a tournament, the recretional players are more likely to fold rather than randomly tooling out on such a board. Also if lets say they call 1010+ here isn't there just too many bad turn cards vs your perceived range of them? I.E they will fold 1010+ on some of the bad cards, or at least slow down a lot.

What exact part of their range are you targetting for raising rather than jamming? Is it specifically 55-1010? What turn cards do you think they will continue to call down with?

If you're playing 15 tables on a Sunday and in a 55f you have 1010 here I can imagine a lot of regs just flicking it in.

I'm really interested in your thoughts here though especially why its dreadful, maybe we could even work out the EV of jamming taking into account average turn bet sizes they will call on a variety of turn cards with their range etc etc. Maybe it will turn out to be really bad.

[MC]

Why are regs so likely to call with overpairs? I just don't see it.

You either have a set or a huge combo draw virtually always.

[smashedagain]

I never like to post in pha because it only highlights how dumb I am, so hear goes again.

Are you saying that for every 1 time you get a call for all those chips it is more profitable than the x amount of times you take a more str8 forward approach and win smaller pots.

Jamming for me mostly gets you called by the nuts,sets, possible flush n str8 draws ( all have a chance of busting us but we could have got away from pur hand playing the streets) and folds out hands that we milk down the streets or spew off.

[SuuPRlim]

I think the main problem you have with the play is not the frequency with which they CALL with there OP's - could be so many random factors that influence that, but that by sheer probabilitys of the situation a very high % of the time they will have no hand at all and have to fold, there is absolutley no manipulative strategy you can employ to change that either.

Pro's are when it works, it REALLY, REALLY works.

I think there is no way this could have more EV than a regular raise, when you consider the small profit increase every float/silly A high call/5x call/spazz that occurs during the 95%~ of the times when he has no choice but to fold.

However as an exploitative line vs a certain opponent it's obviously going to be very good some of the time, I think you'd need some info/reads on him and if this works vs a reg then that guy needs to go to the job centre and no proffessional poker player should be hitting the call btn here, thats ridiculous. However from what I've seen of online tourney regs, I actually do believe some of the will call here lol