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Poker Forums => Poker Hand Analysis => Topic started by: zerofive on August 24, 2012, 07:20:37 PM



Title: Two pair turn spot
Post by: zerofive on August 24, 2012, 07:20:37 PM
This could probably be a really easy one, but it disgusted me at the time mostly because I had no plan for this happening.

Gala 50/1, pretty lively but dead passive and somehow me and the other nit managed to get the standard open all the way down to a low low £3.

Villain in this hand is Jimmy, for those of you who don't know him he has a lot of standard old man tendencies (with no disrespect intended.) He is quite tight, loves to limp-raise/checkraise with strong hands, and hang on with small hands but as with a lot of recreational players he is a little bit clueless when it comes to sizing/narrowing ranges etc.

We're both about £250 to start the hand.

Villain opens MP to £3.50 behind two limpers (this is unusual sizing, this open is normally in the region of £10)
C/o calls, I call OTB with Jd 9d and we go 5 ways

Flop (£18) Ac Js 9h

Villain bets £11, I call, bb check-calls.

Turn (£51) Ac Js 9h 7h

Checked to me I bet £28
bb folds
Villain checkraises to £105 with close to £150 back

We??

Feels like I hate every option. I don't know if my hand is supposed to be an A8 or AT to him right now and he's going nuts with AQ. Weighting towards AK/AQ Would expect him to make this move with draws sometimes, but the only real ones are KQ, KT, QT hearts for him to take off like this. Could also be sets but it's not aces given how I'd expect him to play that hand way faster, and we block the other two. Mostly worried about two pair hands but it's hard to imagine 2prs doesn't just bet again. This is never ever complete air.

As I'm typing this up it feels like it's a shove, but would like opinions.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: jezza777 on August 24, 2012, 07:25:12 PM
we fold pre so not to get in these situations in the first place IMO.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: rbc_mike on August 24, 2012, 07:26:31 PM
Raise flop, no1's folding an ace at gala.

As played, fyl on the turn. Fold and don't tell anyone you had 2 pair I suppose.  It's such a bizarre line though, so I'll think more and write a proper answer.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: tight4better on August 24, 2012, 07:30:17 PM
Looking back, Jimmy LOVES to overbet with hands like AJ/A9 here.

I said at the time it was a gross spot but thinking more and more I think you have to have the best hand here 90 something percent of the time.

Honestly, I think you faded Ax HH You fucking boss.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: zerofive on August 24, 2012, 07:32:21 PM
we fold pre so not to get in these situations in the first place IMO.

lol. There's always a token "fold pre" character ;) Fold AA pre so we don't get into difficult situations like K Q T.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: DMorgan on August 24, 2012, 07:32:51 PM
In the absence of a read that he's gunna way overplay AQ/AT here its a fold imo.

Tough to imagine old guy with tight-ish tendencies taking off here with draws very often. These guys love a peel.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: jezza777 on August 24, 2012, 07:39:21 PM
we fold pre so not to get in these situations in the first place IMO.

lol. There's always a token "fold pre" character ;) Fold AA pre so we don't get into difficult situations like K Q T.

I am defo that guy, lol! I genuinley think limping here is just pointless. We don't close the action and I just think you are burning money.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: DMorgan on August 24, 2012, 07:42:49 PM
We're not limping we're overcalling the preflop raiser who raised to 3.5x over two limpers. With a very small risk of the open limper reraising and playing 250bbs effective in position vs the raiser who is probably going to struggle to find folds with even strong one pair hands, folding pre would be burning money.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: tight4better on August 24, 2012, 07:50:59 PM
we fold pre so not to get in these situations in the first place IMO.

lol. There's always a token "fold pre" character ;) Fold AA pre so we don't get into difficult situations like K Q T.

Or just snap fold the flop and see  C5 4d


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: edgascoigne on August 24, 2012, 07:52:48 PM
Fold now


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: Mitch on August 24, 2012, 08:01:37 PM
we fold pre so not to get in these situations in the first place IMO.

Hope this is a level. If you are folding this hand on the button to this action in a live game you need to quit poker.  ;surrender;

RE: the hand, FYL.

He deffo raises more pre with JJ and AA imo, so your only really losing to 99, AJ. Even A9/7 he happily limps behind, maybeeeeee raises A9 if its suited, but unlikely.

So to summarise, he has very few hands that beat you, but hes raised and hes a nit, so just fold imo.

The onlyyyyyyyy hand he might be playing like this we beat is Jh Th but you would know more than me how he plays this type of hand.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: jezza777 on August 24, 2012, 10:18:19 PM
we fold pre so not to get in these situations in the first place IMO.

Hope this is a level. If you are folding this hand on the button to this action in a live game you need to quit poker.  ;surrender;

RE: the hand, FYL.

He deffo raises more pre with JJ and AA imo, so your only really losing to 99, AJ. Even A9/7 he happily limps behind, maybeeeeee raises A9 if its suited, but unlikely.

So to summarise, he has very few hands that beat you, but hes raised and hes a nit, so just fold imo.

The onlyyyyyyyy hand he might be playing like this we beat is Jh Th but you would know more than me how he plays this type of hand.

I don't play much live poker and am generally a tournament player anyway so I am probably too nitty with my chips. I just think its a hand that can be second best a lot and we don't close the action. If you think the button and stacks make up for this then fair enough.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: pleno1 on August 24, 2012, 10:21:58 PM
Squeeze pre for sure, it surely can't be close right?


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: rfgqqabc on August 24, 2012, 10:35:02 PM
Squeeze pre for sure, it surely can't be close right?

Agree for sure, happy to squeeze atc when someone deviates from their standard opening size like this.

Ott as played, I'm feeling really gross. Dont think i fold in-game but behind the screen here i think its fine to just fold. He has A9/AJ a ton imo


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: pleno1 on August 24, 2012, 10:39:04 PM
well not atc, but a sutied 2 gapper


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: rfgqqabc on August 24, 2012, 10:41:30 PM
well not atc, but a sutied 2 gapper

Top 65%? I mean, just make it 15 and they both fold or call and hope to flop 2pair and fold when they don't, these spots are an absolute dream live.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: JK on August 25, 2012, 03:49:30 AM
Not read the replies (or most of the HH), but Im pretty much fistpumping here lol.

Jimmy definately overplays AK/AQ here. He also sizes his bets a lot lot better when he has a really strong hand (ie 2 pair+) and over raises when he has less strong hands (TPTK etc).

Can probably tell you about a few hands that back this up


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: cambridgealex on August 25, 2012, 03:55:29 AM
I can't believe anyone would ever fold this hand preflop and think it's burning money to do otherwise.

Jack Nine blue? Tree fiddy? What is going on.

Squeeze pre for sure yes, I'd be loving it with J9. I'd probs do it super wide in this specific spot, not atc like our resident mentalist Adam, but defo like K3s, Q6s etc.

As played, I really don't know.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: Honeybadger on August 25, 2012, 06:22:32 PM
Preflop either calling or 3betting is fine, which is best depends on game flow/reads/table dynamics etc etc etc.

Folding is incredibly nitty (and I am a proud nit!). You can definitely make a profit playing this hand in this spot.

On the turn, barring a soul read, this is a fairly trivial fold - but one which it is easy to forget to make when not playing your A-game.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: SuuPRlim on August 25, 2012, 10:01:02 PM
im in the 3bet p/f camp. obv calling is fine as well but its pretty unlikely he's decided to reduce his opening size as his been dealt a premium hand, most likely he has a hand he wants to be able to call a 3bet with. if anyone else in the hand had anything you wanna 4bet they would have 3bet for sure. Folding the worst option for me.

As played bet/fold the turn in this game 100%, he can have T8 as well, all the two pairs cant see any reason for him not to play it this way, also sizing looks like he loves his hand. Whatever his hand is i very much get the feeling he is desperate to turn it over and show you it.

Rule 101 for small stakes (maybe even all) poker; WHEN IN DOUBT, BET/FOLD.

Don't check the turn back either, clear bet imo.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: Honeybadger on August 26, 2012, 02:18:45 AM
Rule 101 for small stakes (maybe even all) poker; WHEN IN DOUBT, BET/FOLD.
This is a very good rule for PLO, since preventing an opponent realising his equity is so very important. However, it does not apply quite as strongly to other poker variants, NLHE included.

However, in this case it does apply. Which means that:

Don't check the turn back either, clear bet imo.
Is completely right.


Title: Re: Two pair turn spot
Post by: discomonkey on August 27, 2012, 03:02:15 AM
given his old man tendancies this is always a nutted hand, dont assume he is trying to value own you with aq bc he thinks you have at/a8... he just has a good hand is scared of the draws and wants to win now. FOLD