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Title: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: cambridgealex on December 30, 2012, 12:58:53 AM 50euro freezeout. 16 left out of 400ish. We are opening a lot.
Seat 1: ptimanu14 (796623) Seat 3: ben210 64 (404612) Seat 4: kitkat688 (301012) Seat 5: halteatout (367001) Seat 6: Sr Croissant (728559) ANTE/BLINDS ben210 64 posts ante 1250 kitkat688 posts ante 1250 ptimanu14 posts ante 1250 halteatout posts ante 1250 Sr Croissant posts ante 1250 ben210 64 posts small blind 5000 kitkat688 posts big blind 10000 Dealt to Sr Croissant Kd 7d PRE-FLOP halteatout folds Sr Croissant raises 10000 to 20000 ptimanu14 calls 20000 ben210 64 calls 15000 kitkat688 folds FLOP Ks 7h 4c ben210 64 checks Sr Croissant bets 26555 ptimanu14 calls 26555 ben210 64 raises 47220 to 73775 Sr Croissant the btn who peels my cbet has the same stack as me (about 750k) and the check raiser has 325k Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: cambridgealex on December 30, 2012, 12:59:49 AM think all 3 options have merits. flatting, clicking and jamming.
Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: Doobs on December 30, 2012, 01:08:40 AM This is .fr, surely we bet more on the flop? I just keep betting there with most opponents, just no need to get tricky. So 4 bet 180, call either. If they call, just keeping on betting on the turn.
I'd be more tempted to get tricky on stars than the other one. Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: jezza777 on December 30, 2012, 01:21:00 AM I like flaring here to see what the other big stack does.
Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: muckthenuts on December 30, 2012, 04:16:21 AM He isn't repping anything at all, wouldn't want to fold out any of his bluffs. Clicking it could be cool to try induce a shove but would prob need a decent read.
Jamming could look weak but don't think there's quite enough of a likelihood he'll be calling off to make it better than the other 2 Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: TL900 on December 30, 2012, 06:03:28 AM clicking > calling > jamming > folding.
Think clicking is the best by far actually Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: stato_1 on December 30, 2012, 06:16:05 AM Any sort of read would help, nothing special, but fish/reg would be a start
Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: tight4better on December 30, 2012, 01:38:11 PM Prob clicking this
Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: Pugwashed on December 30, 2012, 02:52:50 PM I think calling > clicking > jamming > folding. Calling just seems by far the best option tho.
Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: pleno1 on December 30, 2012, 02:53:46 PM call is by far the best line here.
If the board was K92 then ok, but K74 there are significantly less hands with equity that will jusr cram. You can't expect QJ or something to cram here but on boards like 872 where we have 2 pair its far better to click as they can spew even 1 over card etc. clicking it seems quite bad imo. Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: muckthenuts on December 30, 2012, 05:34:06 PM call is by far the best line here. If the board was K92 then ok, but K74 there are significantly less hands with equity that will jusr cram. You can't expect QJ or something to cram here but on boards like 872 where we have 2 pair its far better to click as they can spew even 1 over card etc. good post Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: youthnkzR on December 30, 2012, 06:17:41 PM Too many people overthinking and overcomplicating things here. Call.
Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: Mondeoman on December 30, 2012, 07:30:31 PM call is by far the best line here. If the board was K92 then ok, but K74 there are significantly less hands with equity that will jusr cram. You can't expect QJ or something to cram here but on boards like 872 where we have 2 pair its far better to click as they can spew even 1 over card etc. clicking it seems quite bad imo. mmmm agreeing with pleno again. In theory clicking here can represent a bluff but in practice it almost always means nutz - unless you think opponent is v bad and v spewy just call. Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: cambridgealex on December 30, 2012, 07:41:30 PM call is by far the best line here. If the board was K92 then ok, but K74 there are significantly less hands with equity that will jusr cram. You can't expect QJ or something to cram here but on boards like 872 where we have 2 pair its far better to click as they can spew even 1 over card etc. clicking it seems quite bad imo. mmmm agreeing with pleno again. In theory clicking here can represent a bluff but in practice it almost always means nutz - unless you think opponent is v bad and v spewy just call. can we ever be bluffing if we call though? Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: pleno1 on December 30, 2012, 08:22:09 PM call is by far the best line here. If the board was K92 then ok, but K74 there are significantly less hands with equity that will jusr cram. You can't expect QJ or something to cram here but on boards like 872 where we have 2 pair its far better to click as they can spew even 1 over card etc. clicking it seems quite bad imo. mmmm agreeing with pleno again. In theory clicking here can represent a bluff but in practice it almost always means nutz - unless you think opponent is v bad and v spewy just call. i think vs all opponents calling is best here, an ace can come or board can pair or bring a fd or some additional equity. A bad aggro player just usually raises and then folds when we click. call is by far the best line here. If the board was K92 then ok, but K74 there are significantly less hands with equity that will jusr cram. You can't expect QJ or something to cram here but on boards like 872 where we have 2 pair its far better to click as they can spew even 1 over card etc. clicking it seems quite bad imo. mmmm agreeing with pleno again. In theory clicking here can represent a bluff but in practice it almost always means nutz - unless you think opponent is v bad and v spewy just call. can we ever be bluffing if we call though? I don't think that matters though, its all about trying to get the maximum vs player type+hand+board On this board Tight player -> Value range is prolly just sets = beats us -> Bluff range. nits can always spaz and in this case would just have something completely random = we crush and will crush ott too Spewy player -> Value range = prolly non existent, or dont have to worry about it because bluff combos massively outweight -> Bluff range, completely random crap or some back door, j9 w/fd or something idk = we crush and will crush ott too On the turn, I would c/shove anything that is connected with the board and call down on total bricks because of this specific texture. Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: pleno1 on December 30, 2012, 08:36:05 PM also, if he raises KQ/KJ to find out where he is and is terrible then he can even fold to the click back.
3betting this flop texture if probably the biggest mistake live fish do, i mean like abs whalecackes. we should however prolly be bluff 3betting this flop with close to 100% frequency vs anybody aggressive for exactly the reasons why we should call flop here. #lolbalance Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: Deadman on December 30, 2012, 10:45:45 PM Too many people overthinking and overcomplicating things here. Call. +1 Title: Re: Best flop line with two pair? Post by: Mondeoman on December 31, 2012, 12:36:53 AM call is by far the best line here. If the board was K92 then ok, but K74 there are significantly less hands with equity that will jusr cram. You can't expect QJ or something to cram here but on boards like 872 where we have 2 pair its far better to click as they can spew even 1 over card etc. clicking it seems quite bad imo. mmmm agreeing with pleno again. In theory clicking here can represent a bluff but in practice it almost always means nutz - unless you think opponent is v bad and v spewy just call. can we ever be bluffing if we call though? Yeah you're rarely bluffing when you call but you're also rarely bluffing when you min 3 bet the flop. You're not really trying to rep a bluff here (apart from maybe some sort of straight draw). You're trying to convince your opponent that your hand is weak, like some randon kx, 7x, qq etc so that they keep value betting worse and continue bluffing and maybe even hit (what they think is) a decent turn card. |