blonde poker forum

Playing 2/5 Villain is Turkish Michael who is a maniac playing £1k

My table image is Loose aggressive, playing a stack of £1.7k My hand  Kd Kc 2c 2d

I'm in the SB straddled pot

Folds round
Me - Raise £30
BB (Michael) - Calls
UTG - Folds

Flop is  Kh 7c Qc
Me- Check
BB - Check
Turn is   7d
Me - Check
BB - Check
River -  8s

Me - £50
BB - Raises to £125
Me - Raise to £325
BB - Pushes all in

What do we do....?

I don't play Omaha (feel free to stop reading here!!) but....

There is £1365 in the middle and it's £675 for you to call.

Do you reckon he has specifically quad 7s more than two times in three here?

bet the flop 100% it's KQ7cc against an aggro player he's gonna find something to continue with here most of the time. you're HU and OOP as well he's gonna have so many pairs and iffy draws to flaot you with as well as he could just attack you...Also when you c/r (which is what you were planning to do...) your hand just looks EXACTLY like KK, or AJT with parsleys.

As played. sigh lol. I always make a habbit of just paying these stupid spots off because they are pretty rare and people are capable of all sorts of silly things. you only have to be wrong and fold once in a while and you're costing yourself a ton of money.

My thinking was pocket Queens bets the flop to find out where they are, K7 Q7 bet the turn and flat the river, Pocket 8's flats the river 87 may flat the £50 plus there are only two of us in the hand...

Which makes my decision on the river difficult because unless he's gone crazy he can only have Quads here..

Well that was my thinking..

Yes I agree, not continuing the flop gets me into trouble most of the time here, the reason I never was exactly to check raise against Michael, building a bigger pot. 

you 100% build a bigger pot by betting the flop imo.

why would he check the flop with QQ or 77, makes no sense.

Obviously never folding vs "Turkish Michael the maniac" after you take this line.

Can't see QQ checking the flop, but can see 77 checking the flop as I'm showing strength pre flop, so QQ KK are both in my range.  So he could have taken the line to call but not bet..

I think the fact that he knows I know he's a maniac makes my decision a lot harder.. He also knows that I have KK at this point because my raise to £325 told him that. So am I sigh calling it off, or folding here...?

I don't think he'd expect you to chk KK otf, unless it's KK with clubs.

Just why have you checked this flop? Has it been answered?

Since Kildare has replied this thread is probably done with but you really have to bet the flop here.

I assume you either folded or called and saw his 77.

I checked to check raise because there's two of us and I have top set with a flush draw, Michael being a maniac usually can't help but bet. 

I really think this was a bad move anyway, and Dave is right I would have been playing my hand face up if it went to plan.  the check on the turn was hoping that Michael caught up.

Ha! That reminds me of one of THE great truisms in poker.

Be careful what you wish for

But what if he overtakes you?

Pretty Much, I ended up folding the river and showed  Kc 2c Michael who in a rage of excitement proclaimed "Never try to bluff me, you no know I'm a dangerous man" with that he flipped over his 7's

but overall I think I should call the river, also from what Strak33 and Suuprlim said should always bet the flop, which is where I lost the hand, my thinking at the time was that I wanted to play a big pot against the Maniac not considering he could actually win (which he obviously did)  

My fold was lead by the fact that Michael started trash talking me telling me that I always raise raise raise and said "Okay let's see if you have any balls" lol I evidently didn't on the day lol.. Also from me not being able to put him on anything other then Quads unless he seriously spazzed out..

Is why I should call, so the fold here is terrible..

That is a great example of why speech play & trash talk so very often costs the talker money.

I think most of us pay him off there, & I think we mostly should, but if anything gets us off, it would be his speech play.

I hold the view that very few people understand speech play well enough to do it. A large % do it for the wrong reason, too, more a matter of appendage waving than gaining advantage.

Roberto Romanello was rather good at it though, or he was when he & I played in the same Tourneys, back in the day. 

He did this thing which always astonished me, & he got away with it nearly every time.

"Will you show if I fold?"

And good as gold, like good little children, 90% of them did.

Extraordinary, the power of words when used cleverly. 


To me, that was red rag to a bull. If someone asks to see my hand if they fold, I get all silly & stubborn. Sod that.

Best way to build a pot is to put some chips in, esp when u have an aggro image (rarely checking this flop whatever I raised with)....defo betting all three streets and calling river (would only be one raise by then so no chance I'm folding) but agree with LilD, people do such ridic things that I'd call the way u played it too

Blimey, all the Omaha boys itt.

Yes I usually pay off on the river, but I stand by I lost this pot on the flop.

I was in a hand with Jeff D, around a year ago, where I flopped Aces full on a A99 board, we were both sat pretty deep, I bet each street heavy and pot the river, only for Jeff to go all in (2300), I asked him if he had Quads, he looked me in the eyes and nodded, I ended up paying him off anyway, the pot was multiways pre and on the flop, so I was pretty sure he had it, but I couldn't find a fold.. Had he however acted in the way that Michael did I fold most of the time.. Goes to show how trash talk makes a difference.. Because I should have been folding Jeffs all in and calling Michaels..

You flop the nuts on a wet board.... bet

You turn the second nuts.... bet again

River is a blank.... get all the money in the middle son.

and


this

this. call.

if you bet the flop he'd have called or raised and there is no way he doesn't see the turn card, so you'd have lost anyways.

It's just one of the biggest mistakes people is not to BET when you have a good hand - yes its cool to chk/raise but usually when youc/r you just get action of hands that would continue anyways + you get called of weaker hands that wont bet and you might get some bluffs or silly plays.

Poker is pretty simple, get good cards, bet...

The flop was a clear bet, playing deep as we were I was sure (but wrong) playing an aggro player like Michael he'd bet the flop, the turn, in my mind being a 2 way pot I needed him to catch up (alah Tikay's comment)

River I should always just call his £125 re-raise, the repop was clearly because I hadn't thought about the hand enough, this was my mistake on the river, which would have saved me £200 for a cheap showdown on the river..

Michael is a maniac but pretty competent (Most people can vouch for this) so his line is too strong, In a 2 way pot it's a clear call for the raise not a repop to £300 like I did..

I can see QQ betting and 77 checking based on my pre flop aggression, if Michael was to bet his 7's and I raised he'd be put a decision, with bottom set on this board it should really be a fold.. I'm sure he thought about it this way..

His hand was 77 44