blonde poker forum

Hmmmmm......

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auVes4q1sBE

I thought I could get someone to have a mini rant about this, obviously not  :D

Thanks for posting.

Gave me a few ideas for some benefits I'm currently missing out on.

lol, you must be Egyptian though  :D

Sooner they close that Junior ISA loophole the better. I'm not paying my taxes so people can claim that.

 /:-|

Wait til there's 5  Dry'em Jrs scuttling around.

You'll have changed your tune by then I reckon.

You could always post your own opinion.

That would lead to a 20 page argument with the liberals that I don't have the time or the energy for. I'd rather just throw it out there and see what develops  :)

Lets just say I'd boot the fkers out given half the chance and leave it at that lol.

This takes trolling to whole new stratosphere!

If GB was sending a trolling team to Rio 2016 you've staked a decent early claim to a place in the squad mate.

Thanks bud that means a lot  :D ;nana;

YAWN

If you are a troll, my guess would be you live under a bridge made entirely of papier maché Daily Mails.

Yep. People who were not born with our advantages  trying to make a better life for themselves and their family by moving to another country. Disgusting.

Some of then even have the audacity to claim things that they are entitled to as well. Bastards!

Bloody liberal.

Think it's disgusting when people move from city to city too. Shouldn't be allowed. Should have to stay put. Not allowed to move within a mile of where you're first born. Bloody scroungers

Yeah too right, more daily mail required  ;D

Unemployed people shouldn't be allowed to travel either.

Wasting our resources with free bus passes and polluting the air a law abiding tax payer has to breath.

Sure this isn't just website for Polish immigrants in this country to find out what they're entitled to?  /:-| I mean "Come on"...

Why should they be entitled to anything? Shouldn't we look after our own first?

I don't claim anything I'm entitled to.

I am more than happy to let a poor Polish family have my share.

Happy now?

No, we should look after other Brits first.

Once they immigrate to this country they are our own..

Let's invite the world in why not, we can afford it.......

Think this is a great idea.

Don't get me started on those wankers who travel to Asia ruining the place with their love of cheap hookers, ladyboys and full english breakfasts.  Stop all immigration I say.

Not all people that immigrate to the UK do so just to claim benefits.

Bloody emigrants.

You should start a campaign mate  :)

Going over there... Leaving us jobs...

 rotflmfao

Don't count me in your 'them and us' argument. I'm human, they're human.

Shagging all those foreign brasses when there are plenty of brasses here who haven't got enough money to feed their 6 kids by 6 different fathers.

Scandalous.

:D

Post of the Century. Wonder if Woodsey gets his Daily Mail delivered out there

Some gold in this thread

I don't read any newspapers mate.

Its normal to have different opinions on this matter I don't see the problem to be honest. I just think when the country is totally skint, we should be looking after Brits first and foremost, what's wrong with that?

Nothing at all. But to address the problem of the country being totally skint is something that should be done too.

You have a few bad apples that slip threw the net, come over to the UK and abuse the system, which really annoys the whole tax paying community, but immigration on a whole usually helps strengthen economies (I'll leave out why because we're talking about tax abuse by immigrants) so these immigrants that are adding to our economy should be entitled to the same benefits that UK born individuals have.

And by the way, just for clarity whilst that original thing was about Poles, I broaden this to ALL people who take the piss out of our SS system, including lazy arse Brits. That really annoys me when I see what I'm paying in tax each month.

I have no problem with those in genuine need, but many aren't.

We're on the same page now... Benefit scroungers are the worst, not only are they not contributing to society but they're also having a detrimental effect on the psyche of our youth... 

Also, don't think I have a problem with immigration full stop I really don't.

I'm all for people coming here that can contribute, but I think our immigration system should be allowed to pick and choose who we allow in. But I'm really against the EU free for all we have currently have, we have plenty of Brits on the dole currently because of people that have come here and made it hard for the locals to get jobs. That's basically an unnecessary SS bill we should not have to foot.

If it's clarity your after, it's probably best if you don't post a bigoted video with " hmmmmm " as your only comment and then sit back and wait for the fireworks.

When pressed you said "Boot the fkers out" but received  little support, you seem to have modified (or clarified) that view a little.

I'm sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick.

Well Yes Tom, I was deliberately being a provocateur with my OP, nothing wrong with that, a bit of lively debate is all good.

My views are my views and I don't really care what people think or if I get little support or not, that's life we don't always have to agree on the same stuff.

Rich Brits avoiding taxes is greater than the cost of benefits for the immigrant population

Chav Brits claiming is greater than the cost of benefits for the immigrant population

I'd sort these out first before I'd focus on the small numbers

You might provoke a lively debate among the more enlightened souls such as yourself, but among the lowest  common denominator, stuff like that will also provoke and encourage racial hatred, and discrimination.

It leads to people seeing themselves as superior and others as inferior.

It leads to misery.

It leads to violence.

It leads to genocide.

Take a look at what happen to the Native Americans, the Aborigines, the Sikhs, the Jews....

Take a look at what is happening now to minority groups across Europe.

Entitled to your opinion? Yes. Of course you are. But don't kid yourself about the consequences or underestimate the power of propaganda.

You're taking the example to the extreme now Tom. This is what I really hate about this whole thing. Why can't I or others express their opinions on immigration without being called a racist? That is just nonsense, they should be allowed to express that view without such labels because it is one of the top political issues. Do you honestly think it is healthy to have a political debate/issue with only one side of the argument being allowed to be presented? My opinion whilst different to yours is extremely common. It just suits some peoples agenda to be able to label someone a name if they disagree with them, that is wrong.

In any case I think I've make it clear its people taking the piss out of our SS system that I have a real problem with, not immigration per se, controlled immigration is fine as far as I'm concerned. The abuse of the SS system is caused by a number of things including the economy, lazy chavs and yes immigration is part of that too amongst other things.

I have no issues with you stating your opinion, but you didn't state your opinion, you just posted an overtly bigoted and racist video instead.

The video portrays people as self assured, confident scroungers who's only motive is to "Rape" the benefit system.

I meet with BME groups every day and the truth is, the vast majority are frightened strangers in a strange land, they don't understand the customs and they don't speak the language. They have made an incredibly difficult decision to leave their homeland so that their families might have some of the basic human rights and opportunities that we regard as a birthright. God forbid that we should ever find ourselves in that position.

If you want a fair debate, don't start it by posting something that will make their lives even more difficult than it already is.

You posted an extreme example of how to cheat the system, expect extreme examples and opinions back :) you cant have it both ways.

Fair enough, I did post it do encourage a little lively debate knowing it would ruffle a few feathers, happy to admit that.

However whilst the guy is ragging on the Poles pretty hard, I really don't like the idea of any site that shows people how they can get as much out of the system as they can, and yes it is the system that is at fault, not the people. However, If they can't get a job they should go back home, Why should our taxpayers money support people who have never contributed? We are a soft touch, we wouldn't get anything like that support if we went to most other countries.

Who is we?

You're late  :D

I know it might sound a little off, but frankly I don't care who comes here, I have my own world to think of, wasted negative energy on injustices of the world will only lead to anger. I work hard and if others don't that's not my problem, if people come here looking for a free ride let them do it, not my problem.

Why does it bother you so much?  I thought you were living across the globe?

I live in Nottingham boss, just travel as much as I can that's all.

However whilst the guy is ragging on the Poles pretty hard, I really don't like the idea of any site that shows people how they can get as much out of the system as they can

If you really don't like it, why help distribute it by posting it on a public forum?

I say again, please don't include me in your concept of "Them and us".

Try saying "I" and "Me" instead of "Our" and "We".

You didn't answer the question.

Anyone who agrees with my opinion. Feel free to exclude yourself like Tom has done.

So that we is just people who agree with you?

I've already answered you Dan.

I was just clarifying, as you seemed to be making that comment on behalf of all UK tax-payers - rather than just UK tax-payers who also agree with you.

Good debate though ::)

Thanks, I knew you'd be along   ;nana;

A pie only has so many slices no matter how compassionately you cut it

I would say that the majority of uk tax payers would agree with woodsey.

Even if I was the most rabid right winger I can't believe I would blame individuals for exploiting the system for the max.

My anger would be vented at the succession of Governments who devised such a deeply flawed benefits system.

Basically my view.

Don't blame the people, blame the system. It's like saying DTD should get annoyed when people play poker if there's an overlay, and instead they ought to all unregister.

Hard to disagree with you Keith, I guess the whole thing frustrates me from both sides really when the country is in such huge debt, I hate to see people taking advantage even though they are 'entitled' to it.

Unless I am mistaken a Junior ISA is just a savings account for kids which you yourself or family members pay money into, that money gathers interest over time and once the child turns 18 they have a tax free lump sum to withdraw to help them start with adult life. The money can't be touched before that time (excluding things like death of the child). Not aware of any loopholes that Polish people could use to gain an underhand benefit. Anyone able to enlighten me?

Also the guy sounds thick as mince, even compared to your standard northerner.

mmmmm Pie  ;kev;

This is one of those soundbites that people use that sound really good but actually doesn't really bear any scrutiny.  The pie can get bigger with immigration so there will be more slices.  An immigrant can be a tax payer, a consumer, a business owner, an employer and can also provide low cost labour all of which are good things for the economy and stimulate economic growth.  Economic growth by its very nature leads to the "pie" getting bigger and more "slices" being available.

I also don't get this designation of why I would be more willing to help someone on the basis that they were born on the same piece of land as me.  I will give you an example.  A friend of mine moved to the UK from Antigua where we worked together (although they are Jamaican).  Her daughter was about 14 at the time and really is an incredible kid.  She did very well in school and wanted to go to college but, as a non UK citizen, she had to pay full tuition fees and look after herself so her mother (my friend) worked three jobs in order to pay her tuition fees whilst the daughter got a part time job during college to contribute to her living expenses.  In what was left of her free time she joined a mentoring programme for disadvantaged kids (I am not making this shit up).  This year in her final year it has become too much and a few weeks ago she had something approaching a breakdown and has had to take a bit of time out from her studies which means she will not be able to take some of her exams and will have to take them again in the summer which costs more money which they simply do not have. The state can't help because she isn't a British Citizen yet although she would qualify in a year or two. Would we really rather help someone that that hasn't worked a day in their life or contributed anything to our economy on the basis that they were born geographically close to us or help her who has, and will continue to, work every hour god sends since she arrived on this island?

I couldn't agree with this more.

I see Woodsey troll thread 143524 finally got some biters.

He seems a bit on his own though - bring back Ecosse!

Now, I believe there was mention of pie.

(http://www.madlabmg.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/homer_drool.jpg)

Sledge is banned as well, otherwise the EDL contingency would be larger.

he is too busy renting out his house to poles....

Well the statement absolutely bears scrutiny because it is a mathematical one and thus we can deal with facts. However, it seems to me whenever this debate arises maths takes a back seat in favour of arty farty theories and wishy washy arguments about equality. It’s like me asking what is 2+2 and you saying “I like William Wordsworth’s poem about the daffodils”.

I think you are quite correct in suggesting the pie “CAN get bigger” with more ingredients but I am correct in suggesting there will still only be so many slices. Can you tell me for a fact whether British pie eaters definitely get a bigger slice due to current immigration levels? And can you tell me for certain when Bulgarian and Romanian ingredients are added to our pie and the population explodes to 70 million by 2027 people will still be getting a bigger slice? I doubt that you can because the government don’t even know.

As far as I’m aware the only major inquiry conducted in the UK to answer this question was carried out by the Select Committee on Economic Affairs of the House of Lords in 2007/08. In April 2008 they reported "We have found no evidence for the argument, made by the government, business and many others, that net immigration - immigration minus emigration - generates significant economic benefits for the existing UK population." As regards the contribution of migrants to the Exchequer, they concluded that "The overall fiscal impact of immigration is likely to be small”.

We need to definitively answer the question of whether the additional contribution to our economy from our immigration policy is a positive trade versus the addition to the population and the increased demand for services like healthcare and social housing. I don’t really know the answer but I do appreciate that this uncertainty is a concern to people in this country already struggling. With all due respect the story about your Jamaican friend and your proposal that the pie slices COULD get bigger in theory does little to reassure people with actual facts to that mathematical question.

Personally I reckon most people don’t give a fig where their pie ingredients come from as long as the slice is big enough to feed their family and it tastes good. Nobody likes the concept of people helping themselves to free pie wherever they come from especially when you’ve helped cook the pie yourself. People are simply worried about economic facts so this idea about a willingness to “help” people from other lands at a time when the national deficit is so high is all daffodils to me because there are only so many slices to a pie no matter how compassionately you cut it. 

Woodsey should get this fella posting on Blonde for a bit of support.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-21519917

Ecosse and sledge are banned?

I thought blonde was a more pleasant place recently.

Now I know why.

I wish some of you guys would stop instantly associating wanting tighter immigration laws to help reduce part of the cost of SS with being far right wing, that is really not the case at all. It's perfectly possible to want tighter immigration laws and be centre or centre right in politics.

I would say my views as clarified in the second half of this thread are relatively mainstream, I realise more liberal minded people don't like that fact but its the truth.

I didn't object to your clarified views. I objected to you posting a bigoted racist video with the deliberate intention of sparking a heated debate.

I also objected to your suggestion that "We" should "Boot the fekers out"

I have no objection at all to open and honest debate.

Hmmmmmm.....

Fine lets carry on with the debate as it is currently and put my initial wind up posts to one side for the moment

What people forget having this debate is when we talk about what's good for the UK population we aren't talking about what is exclusively good for white people who were born in Britain. There's about 10 million of our population who were foreign born and now only about 40% of residents in London describe themselves as white British. We are one of the most culturally diverse nations in the world. So when we talk about what's good for the UK population we are including an array of nationalities and ethnic backgrounds. We are also one of the most crowded nations in the world so having this debate seems more than reasonable to me. It's in the interests of all our residents nomatter where they originated from.

I'd rather discuss why you want to wind people up. Especially the racists and bigots.

If the thread had started like that it would have been great.

hmmmm

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/kinboshi/moove_zpsaa5c80a6.png)

I am not sure you can have that discussion in a vacuum though.  You can't, for example, stop all immigration.  Asylum seekers, who get a lot of the worst press, are also amongst the most deserving and if we value our position as a world leader then taking in asylum seekers is a part of that process.  Then we have to have a discussion about whether we expect those that come to our country to take on our values and culture or whether we are quite happy to be multicultural and let elements of their culture seep into our own.  Nowadays in England we eat a lot of Indian and Chinese food, Notting Hill Carnival is enjoyed by all sections of society and most of us have learnt and been introduced to things from friends of other colours and nationalities.  Most of us now value these things but when they were first introduced to our society they were viewed with great hostility.  Maybe in a few years then elements of Polish and Romanian culture will be viewed with the same affection that we now view a chicken tikka massala and day out at carnival.  Incidentally I am pretty much an immigrant somewhere else and it can be really frightening.  For my first three months in Jamaica I barely went out and when I did it was with other white expats and I ate at burger king and Wendys.  Now I happily drive through the ghettos, go to local places and eat a lot of local seafood, jerk chicken, pork etc because I want to assimilate to a degree.  I was even spotted last week at a local club wining up ;-)  Learning about a new local culture is a great thing and we should look at ways that we can introduce immigrants to our culture and show how great it is.  maybe we can all learn something from each other.

I love you Red.

Brilliant Post.

All very warm and fluffy stuff, but I for one would still prefer to lower our SS bill by tightening immigration and taking just those we need in amongst other measures. Its pure economics for me, nothing to do with dislike of other nationalities.

When's that vote on staying in the EU again?

I find myself torn becasue for some reason i would prefer my kids to go to a catholic school where the kids are pretty much all the same, middle/upper class white kids. We moved house to get in the catchment area, we just didn't fancy the idea where they went to a school full of immigrants or minority groups.

I try and think does this make me racist or someone that feels more comfortable around people like me? or my children going through education with kids of simiar backgrounds?

It's weird as Leeds in the 70/80s was pretty much white only, when I popped to Uni it opened my closed views on different cultures and how we are all alike...yet I still want my kids in a certain type school, guess i will figure it out one day

You always talk about wanting a debate but you never actually seem to engage in the debate.  Presumably you agree with my view that you can't just eliminate all immigration (or would you send people back to countries where they face certain torture or death?) so how would you tighten up the current regulations?  Do you actually know what they are or is your view just a very generic "stop the foreigners coming in?"  

Most of the foreign-born population in the UK is from OUTSIDE the EU.

Out of EU would be the quickest and most effective way imo.

I don't care about those that have been here for ages and are citizens, they can stay no issue with that. I'm talking about the recent influx from the EU.

The ones coming over, filling job roles, helping stimulate growth in the economy and keep inflation in check?

How would you do that though?  Currently 53.5% of all UK exports go to the EU.  Are you happy for those markets to be much more difficult for the British companies to access and subject to complex customs rules and duties therefore affecting demand for British good and possibly costing jobs here?  I'm not being a smart arse here but the EU isn't just about immigration and it comes as a package.  Leaving the EU has potentially huge consequences.  There are a lot of benefits to membership and they come with costs and responsibilities too.   Incidentally I am not neccesarily a fan of the EU but it is such a complex policy decision that I am not sure "lets leave the EU so Romanians can't come over here and claim our benefits" (which incidentally they can't if they have never worked in this country) is a particularly constructive contribution to the debate.

And keeping Brits out of work that we have to pay benefits to.

Is that what you believe?  I think you honestly do.  So these immigrants are coming over here, stealing our jobs AND stealing our benefits!

So you do actually just have a problem with them being here period.  Whether they work or whether they don't?

Well we shall see what happens when the vote comes after the next election, like you say its a complex argument and I'm well aware the that immigration is just a small part of the whole thing.

Yes

No, I just have a problem with the economic cost to us, nothing else. Most people on here know my love for travel, part of that is enabling me to mix with locals away from the tourists and experiencing other cultures, so I have less than zero issue with that aspect of it.

You do realise that you cannot claim come to this country and claim benefits don't you?  If you have never worked in this country and contributed then you cannot claim Jobseekers allowance, housing benefit, income support, child benefit or councl tax benefit.  You must have worked and contributed first.

Well its as much about them taking jobs Brits would otherwise get, and benefits subsequently having to be paid to the Brit who is out of work as a result.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was after 6 months they could start claiming some form of support? Not that it would change my view massively.

From what I have seen/experenced the reason that there are jobs available for foregn nationals is because the a hgh proportiion of the British unemployed feel that they are to good/educated/above takng such mundane minimum wage jobs.

There is a big difference in saying "I want to work" and HAVING to work..... imo

Yes I fully agree that is part of the problem too Graham, our benefits system is too attractive for those types and the lazy arse chavs who just can't be arsed. Whilst this discussion is centered around immigration there are other factors that create the demand for the immigrants. As you say, if locals HAD to work i.e. take the job offered or lose benefits it would be a different story.

They should send some of these guys out to San Fernando for a month with 50 quid in their pocket. Do you think that would scare them enough to get a job when they got back?  :D

In fact you know first hand what it takes to get out there and actually WANT AND HAVE to do it with very little in your pocket.

If the Filipinos would employ foreigners I would stay there without a second thought whatever the wage, but don't send to many Brits out there  ;)

I have connections that could get you a job as a house maid for 3000p a month if that suits?  :P

All well and good but there a big difference when the immigrant is wealthier than the indigenous population (as I assume you are). In those cases, a lot of the time the locals want the immigrants to assimilate and mix in because they want the $$$.

Not sure how your post relates to my point. Even so I agree with every word and think it would be a dreadful idea to stop all immigration. To illustrate how your post would relate to mine tho let's take your chicken tikka massala idea as an example. Let's say a hard-working Indian family arrive in the UK and set-up a great little curry shop on the high street where no curry shop exists. Everything goes well, they are offering a great product and a valuable service whilst contributing to the local economy. All good. Word spreads back home that this family are doing well for themselves and it encourages others to come to the UK. Then 10 different hard-working families all arrive and seek to set up 10 different curry shops on the high street. Forget what I think. What do you think the original family would think about that?

This is why I don't get the "racism" element of the immigration debate. The original family would naturally hate the idea because their slice of the curry market would reduce. Nothing to do with race, nothing to do with whether people like chicken tikka masala, nothing to do with how deserving the other families are. Everything to do with saturation. That concept absolutely transcends race, it's just an economic fact. Everybody wants opportunity in life and everybody wants to progress. If that original Indian family fear their quality of life and perhaps their very livelihood is threatened by many more Indian families arriving on the high street they will be fearful and resentful of the new Indian families.

The vast majority of Brits embrace immigration and understand it's great value but they are fearful about whether opportunity and progress will be available to them in the future. It only serves to muddy the waters to turn it into a race issue which clearly it is not for the majority. People just want to be reassured by facts and simply patting them on the head and telling them curry tastes good doesn't cut the mango chutney for me.

As far as Britain wanting to keep it's place as a world leader well I think we should perhaps reasses our position. When you are broke and your debt is only getting bigger spending money you don't actually have to retain an image should be a low priority imo. It's like my mrs going out and buying new shoes when she's overdrawn just so people know she's a leader in fashion.

Any reason this is stickied?

Looks like a case of 'fat finger mod' syndrome.

Now unstickied.

I don't beleive it is Keith. If it is, or was, it was not intentional. I think you know what my view on threads like this would be.

I just tested it by setting it sticky, & non-sticky again, so it should resume it's rightful place now.

Vinni has not been on the thread afaik.

According to a recent poll, 50% of Daily Mail readers believe that Poland is empty.

The trouble with Daily mail readers is, half of then cant read, half of them can't write, and the other half can't add up.

And 97% of statistics are made up.

Talking of the Daily Mail, this is amusing.

Daily Mail 'journalist' asks on MumsNet for help doing a hatchet job on the NHS...

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/media_nonmember_requests/a1683415-National-Newspaper-seeking-stories-of-children-sent-to-A-E-inappropriately-by-GPs

they can copy and paste though.

Didn't have you down as a Mumsnet user.

I live and learn.

What's the difference between a duck?

obv hung around and stayed on after we invaded em last year. I think the mums got the better of the twonks on here.

:D 

Would be too scared to post on there.  Would get eaten alive!