How to get free stuff

[MANTIS01]

A pie only has so many slices no matter how compassionately you cut it

[celtic]

I've already answered you Dan.

I was just clarifying, as you seemed to be making that comment on behalf of all UK tax-payers - rather than just UK tax-payers who also agree with you.

Good debate though

I would say that the majority of uk tax payers would agree with woodsey.

[The Camel]

Even if I was the most rabid right winger I can't believe I would blame individuals for exploiting the system for the max.

My anger would be vented at the succession of Governments who devised such a deeply flawed benefits system.

[relaedgc]

Even if I was the most rabid right winger I can't believe I would blame individuals for exploiting the system for the max.

My anger would be vented at the succession of Governments who devised such a deeply flawed benefits system.

Basically my view.

Don't blame the people, blame the system. It's like saying DTD should get annoyed when people play poker if there's an overlay, and instead they ought to all unregister.

[Woodsey]

Even if I was the most rabid right winger I can't believe I would blame individuals for exploiting the system for the max.

My anger would be vented at the succession of Governments who devised such a deeply flawed benefits system.

Hard to disagree with you Keith, I guess the whole thing frustrates me from both sides really when the country is in such huge debt, I hate to see people taking advantage even though they are 'entitled' to it.

[millidonk]

Unless I am mistaken a Junior ISA is just a savings account for kids which you yourself or family members pay money into, that money gathers interest over time and once the child turns 18 they have a tax free lump sum to withdraw to help them start with adult life. The money can't be touched before that time (excluding things like death of the child). Not aware of any loopholes that Polish people could use to gain an underhand benefit. Anyone able to enlighten me?

Also the guy sounds thick as mince, even compared to your standard northerner.

[redsimon]

A pie only has so many slices no matter how compassionately you cut it

mmmmm Pie 

[redarmi]

A pie only has so many slices no matter how compassionately you cut it

This is one of those soundbites that people use that sound really good but actually doesn't really bear any scrutiny.  The pie can get bigger with immigration so there will be more slices.  An immigrant can be a tax payer, a consumer, a business owner, an employer and can also provide low cost labour all of which are good things for the economy and stimulate economic growth.  Economic growth by its very nature leads to the "pie" getting bigger and more "slices" being available.

I also don't get this designation of why I would be more willing to help someone on the basis that they were born on the same piece of land as me.  I will give you an example.  A friend of mine moved to the UK from Antigua where we worked together (although they are Jamaican).  Her daughter was about 14 at the time and really is an incredible kid.  She did very well in school and wanted to go to college but, as a non UK citizen, she had to pay full tuition fees and look after herself so her mother (my friend) worked three jobs in order to pay her tuition fees whilst the daughter got a part time job during college to contribute to her living expenses.  In what was left of her free time she joined a mentoring programme for disadvantaged kids (I am not making this shit up).  This year in her final year it has become too much and a few weeks ago she had something approaching a breakdown and has had to take a bit of time out from her studies which means she will not be able to take some of her exams and will have to take them again in the summer which costs more money which they simply do not have. The state can't help because she isn't a British Citizen yet although she would qualify in a year or two. Would we really rather help someone that that hasn't worked a day in their life or contributed anything to our economy on the basis that they were born geographically close to us or help her who has, and will continue to, work every hour god sends since she arrived on this island?

[mondatoo]

A pie only has so many slices no matter how compassionately you cut it

This is one of those soundbites that people use that sound really good but actually doesn't really bear any scrutiny.  The pie can get bigger with immigration so there will be more slices.  An immigrant can be a tax payer, a consumer, a business owner, an employer and can also provide low cost labour all of which are good things for the economy and stimulate economic growth.  Economic growth by its very nature leads to the "pie" getting bigger and more "slices" being available.

I also don't get this designation of why I would be more willing to help someone on the basis that they were born on the same piece of land as me.  I will give you an example.  A friend of mine moved to the UK from Antigua where we worked together (although they are Jamaican).  Her daughter was about 14 at the time and really is an incredible kid.  She did very well in school and wanted to go to college but, as a non UK citizen, she had to pay full tuition fees and look after herself so her mother (my friend) worked three jobs in order to pay her tuition fees whilst the daughter got a part time job during college to contribute to her living expenses.  In what was left of her free time she joined a mentoring programme for disadvantaged kids (I am not making this shit up).  This year in her final year it has become too much and a few weeks ago she had something approaching a breakdown and has had to take a bit of time out from her studies which means she will not be able to take some of her exams and will have to take them again in the summer which costs more money which they simply do not have. The state can't help because she isn't a British Citizen yet although she would qualify in a year or two. Would we really rather help someone that that hasn't worked a day in their life or contributed anything to our economy on the basis that they were born geographically close to us or help her who has, and will continue to, work every hour god sends since she arrived on this island?

I couldn't agree with this more.

[AndrewT]

I see Woodsey troll thread 143524 finally got some biters.

He seems a bit on his own though - bring back Ecosse!

Now, I believe there was mention of pie.

[kinboshi]

Sledge is banned as well, otherwise the EDL contingency would be larger.

[Acidmouse]

Sledge is banned as well, otherwise the EDL contingency would be larger.

he is too busy renting out his house to poles....

[MANTIS01]

A pie only has so many slices no matter how compassionately you cut it

This is one of those soundbites that people use that sound really good but actually doesn't really bear any scrutiny.  The pie can get bigger with immigration so there will be more slices.  An immigrant can be a tax payer, a consumer, a business owner, an employer and can also provide low cost labour all of which are good things for the economy and stimulate economic growth.  Economic growth by its very nature leads to the "pie" getting bigger and more "slices" being available.

I also don't get this designation of why I would be more willing to help someone on the basis that they were born on the same piece of land as me.  I will give you an example.  A friend of mine moved to the UK from Antigua where we worked together (although they are Jamaican).  Her daughter was about 14 at the time and really is an incredible kid.  She did very well in school and wanted to go to college but, as a non UK citizen, she had to pay full tuition fees and look after herself so her mother (my friend) worked three jobs in order to pay her tuition fees whilst the daughter got a part time job during college to contribute to her living expenses.  In what was left of her free time she joined a mentoring programme for disadvantaged kids (I am not making this shit up).  This year in her final year it has become too much and a few weeks ago she had something approaching a breakdown and has had to take a bit of time out from her studies which means she will not be able to take some of her exams and will have to take them again in the summer which costs more money which they simply do not have. The state can't help because she isn't a British Citizen yet although she would qualify in a year or two. Would we really rather help someone that that hasn't worked a day in their life or contributed anything to our economy on the basis that they were born geographically close to us or help her who has, and will continue to, work every hour god sends since she arrived on this island?

Well the statement absolutely bears scrutiny because it is a mathematical one and thus we can deal with facts. However, it seems to me whenever this debate arises maths takes a back seat in favour of arty farty theories and wishy washy arguments about equality. It’s like me asking what is 2+2 and you saying “I like William Wordsworth’s poem about the daffodils”.

I think you are quite correct in suggesting the pie “CAN get bigger” with more ingredients but I am correct in suggesting there will still only be so many slices. Can you tell me for a fact whether British pie eaters definitely get a bigger slice due to current immigration levels? And can you tell me for certain when Bulgarian and Romanian ingredients are added to our pie and the population explodes to 70 million by 2027 people will still be getting a bigger slice? I doubt that you can because the government don’t even know.

As far as I’m aware the only major inquiry conducted in the UK to answer this question was carried out by the Select Committee on Economic Affairs of the House of Lords in 2007/08. In April 2008 they reported "We have found no evidence for the argument, made by the government, business and many others, that net immigration - immigration minus emigration - generates significant economic benefits for the existing UK population." As regards the contribution of migrants to the Exchequer, they concluded that "The overall fiscal impact of immigration is likely to be small”.

We need to definitively answer the question of whether the additional contribution to our economy from our immigration policy is a positive trade versus the addition to the population and the increased demand for services like healthcare and social housing. I don’t really know the answer but I do appreciate that this uncertainty is a concern to people in this country already struggling. With all due respect the story about your Jamaican friend and your proposal that the pie slices COULD get bigger in theory does little to reassure people with actual facts to that mathematical question.

Personally I reckon most people don’t give a fig where their pie ingredients come from as long as the slice is big enough to feed their family and it tastes good. Nobody likes the concept of people helping themselves to free pie wherever they come from especially when you’ve helped cook the pie yourself. People are simply worried about economic facts so this idea about a willingness to “help” people from other lands at a time when the national deficit is so high is all daffodils to me because there are only so many slices to a pie no matter how compassionately you cut it. 

[AndrewT]

Woodsey should get this fella posting on Blonde for a bit of support.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-21519917

[The Camel]

Ecosse and sledge are banned?

I thought blonde was a more pleasant place recently.

Now I know why.