blonde poker forum

Playing 8 handed and everyone is sat with at least £500, straddles are £5

Dealer chooses 4 cards the only player that does this everyone else tends to have max

I'm the small blind playing 1.1k

HAND:  5h 6s 7c 8s

Straddle to 5, utg raises to 15, 1 caller behind, I call the sb, bb folds and the straddle comes along.

FLOP:  2s 3s 4c

I check
Straddle bets out £40
Initial raiser folds and the caller pots it to approximately £200

Thoughts?

Straddle is a very competent reg, probably the best player at the table and playing £600ish. The potter im told is decent and seems to know how to play, he has been the tightest player at the table and has span £300 into £1000 he has only shown down aces full and the nut straight before. Im a relatively unkown but have been holding my own playing fairly tight.

blergh spot.

I can find arguments for all options. except call, I'm definitely not calling.

I would call here and shove the turn on a non pair up or flush completing turn. That is unless you want to play a high variance game where you just punt it all in now and hope to hold.

Folding is a disaster play. Pot/call and be pretty happy about it. You can call if its ur case monies but i dont really like pricing in the straddle and our redraw is def strong enough to get it in vs the other guy. Ice cold if he has us crushed imo

problem is that guy can have A7ss56 and have us almost dead, with our read that he's been tight. pot/call my standard line here, but wondering if there's something interesting about making it £430 and calling off....since a pot is all in anyway, maybe we can induce slightly weaker shoves and if it goes shove/shove behind us we can consider a hero fold....

[ x ] thread needs Lil Dave.

FYP

lololol v good. but for the record, I refixed it. It should be fewer nits, not less, since we can count them ;)

I'm not a nit *at all* when it comes to PLO and my default line is most definitely pot-callllllllll in this spot.

just wondering if there is something about the raisers tightness and whether that gives us enough of a reason to deviate from standard line. I suspect it won't, but I think we achieve the same result from raise-call rather than pot-call because we can give the illusion of fold equity against potter but also squeeze the straddler out of the pot cold. It's clear we want to pot headsup because everytime it goes three ways we're gonna have to find some pretty specific turns and rivers to win the pot, if we can win the whole pot at all!

I think I like the idea of making it £430 or so and calling off, but I'm also completely at peace with just pot/call as well.

Thread needs less pedants. ;)

While this could be just ice cold, OP is more likely to be handing out the fifty pences.  Don't know if I like your raise size, just looks very nutted.

Is there no merit for a fold here? The donk bet usually reads 56 also, and the guy who's potted is never light here. IMO at worst he has a bare 567 and i dont think hes ever folding. Does everyone really want to get in 1k here in the hope he has no redraws? My flush isn't great either so really just hoping to spike a blank 5 or 6 which there may not be many left if the straddle has it as well.

Fold ain't that bad here and well worth considering.

Lets have a vote on Lil Daves line here. I go for fold. Anyone else? Before he gets up.

I did consider this when I made my post and then I remembered the times I've burnt money putting a guy on one hand with a read as vague as "he's tight". Sure if he opens his mouth and starts complaining that he's worried about the potential flush and that he has to raise to "get people out" then I would go ahead and fold. Without that information though I'd open his range up to around 750 combinations of which are the folllowing;

 Board:
    
 
 Equity Wins Ties  
 MP2: Preflop   51.70%   42.65%   9.04%   746  { 56BsBs, AAs5s6, 44As*, 5678, 5567 }
 Flop   45.69%   27.90%   17.80%    
 Turn   45.69%   27.90%   17.80%    
 River   45.69%   27.90%   17.80%    
 MP3: Preflop   48.30%   39.26%   9.04%   1  { 5h6s7s8s }
 Flop   54.31%   36.51%   17.80%    
 Turn   54.31%   36.51%   17.80%    
 River   54.31%   36.51%   17.80%

That doesn't include any weaker combinations of 56, which he can have a none zero % of the time for sure. He can raise fold these vs our pot sized raise or get it in freerolled both of which result in us printing money. It's also very light on set combos as I don't assume the average tight 2/2 player will get frisky with set+fd here (although it would massively correct for him to do so based on the general thoughts itt). So assuming this range we get it in with 48% with a decent overlay which doesn't seem bad. But then lets take the general population read of this thread - which shows that a person assumed to be "tight" can be as narrow as 108 combos here (56+bigfd). What does that say about our range then? Well if the villain has a similar perception of this hand, then he will put us on an extremely tight range when we pot here - perhaps (if I'm led to believe people can actually narrow someone down to 12 combos in a spot like this) AAs5s6. When faced with a pot sized raise villain will make a great deal of incorrectly tight hero folds if he perceives our range to be this.

And raising small sucks a fat one because we want folds. Equity runs close in PLO even when you think it doesn't.

I'm UP!

Rob has sewn it up pretty much perfectly for me, sure we might run into the absolute bojangles here and be under it, but I agree with rob he does have some weaker 56+ re-draw combo's than ours and will have naked 56 some % of time, as well as sets+ NFD (AA44ss etc) speshly with the dynamic of the more aggressive straddler donking. I agree this isn't ALL that likely and the vast majority of the time these hands would just be a call with this player, but it is certainly not an insignificantly low frequency so should be considered.

Let's not forget there is also the possibility he's going off with something like AA55 with spades - I realise this is a tight player but you said he was a competant player so prolly understands his image and just look at the hand people are suggesting we might wanna fold here? It's again unlikely but certainly not completely impossible and would defo be a very good play, actually would be the best way to play that hand.

Also consider this player PF range is going to be pretty tight,  Aspades 7c 6s 5c or some such hand is possible but there aren't many combo's of that sort of mega-nutted hand when you remember it would prolly have to be dbl suited and the 6s which is defo slightly relevant. So, in reality 56 with a bigger flush draw is as crushed as I think we'll be, if somehow we've run into the super hand then I think that's very very cold.

Agree with Rob r.e betsizing as well, sure it'd be nice to maneuver our betsizing as such that weaker hands might find themselves all in, but its plainly obvious that once we've entered this pot with a raise we're not folding EVER and we just have an extremely strong range (we'd have folded totally naked 56 prolly, and 33) so the best way we can manipulate our betsizes here is too put as much money in as possible and try get a 56 combo to fold, as we absolutely print thee equity when someone folds (albeit likely correctly) 56 to us OTF.

Raising certainly better than calling OTF because we have our equity now, we have the most fold equity.

This is just one of those silly PLO spots where folding could be a huge mistake, whereas going all in can never be - so the only way to make sure we dont fuck up is to get the money in.

LilD, if by chance the villain has got a better hand than us then surely getting the money in now will only mean we chop at best and lose more often. If we call now and shove any non flush or paired turn surely we have more chance of getting a fold from villain if he's holding trips or flush draw. Obv I bow to your superiority here but without significant reads I play it safe here.

if villain is as good as you make out he has atleast  Ks 4s 5d 6d and always have a sweet redraw so you will be drawing thinaments. fold this hand. gift £15 and feel happy about being a hero and probs just fold pre next time. playing live plo OOP with mediocre hands is like playing rouly with double zero!! why make the game harder than it already is!

FOLD PRE? I i'd take a knife to my kidneys before folding this pre, In fact I'd be having serious thoughts about squeezing pre-flop to try clean some of our equity up - however in live games this is pretty ambitious and people dont 3bet as often as I'd like them too spesh vs UTG open from a tightish player so I'd expect there to prolly be some decent dominating run-downs out and about which obv aren't going to fold to our squeeze. I'd never fold this hand though, this is a very good hand, admittedly loses a lot of it's value multi-way but still, very good.

@Bobalike - well you're certainly right but if our villain has a strong enough non-56 hand to pot the flop with here then he's very unlikely to fold it OTT - we're basically talking set+nfd there. If he has a weaker 56 combo than ours (which I think he will have a decent% of the time) then he'll never fold on a bricked turn, whereas there IS a chance he'll fold on the flop, he might have  Kd Qs 5s 6d and fold the flop? every time he does that we make a lot of money (I'm suggesting he will all that often btw, but often enough for it to be relevant)

Also, we're only about 15% behind the 56 with NFD, and we'll lose the pot about 25% of the time, we really don't need to give him too many weaker 56's and folds and we're making an extremely profitable play. Basically I think if we decide to continue then we need take the flop line that gets the MOST folds because that is where we're really making our $$$.

All we have is that this guy is tight+competent and for my money that's not enough reason to lay hands like this down.

No1 would ever fold this hand to me here I know that much :D

is this @dtd btw, naming the villain would be pretty useful if its possible, I have a inkling who it is I think.

DAve, imagine we have XXXX not the hand we have.

Are you always considering this a push/fold spot?

Are there any hands you're calling? Any you're raising but not pot/calling?

If so, solve for XXXX ;)

erm, hard to say, gonna go with no it prolly isn't...but depends on a few things

I don't really think push/fold spots exist in deep-stacked PLO, that's more of a NLHE tournament thing IMO, it's much more complex with the deeper stacks and your own reads can dominate the mathematics a lot harder here than say in a 30bb tourney spot where no matter how hard the guy's eye is twitching certain hands will always be an immediately profitable push and there is no room to call.

One thing I will say about this spot though is that whatever "XXXX" is it needs to be pretty fkn good, we're dealing with very strong ranges here, the straddler certainly won'tbe picking this spot to randomly lead nothing, actually the last hand i'd expect him to lead here would be naked 56, I think NFD/sets stuff that can prolly take a bit of heat, or he might just be taking a stab with a hand like JJ66with spades. The IR who has potted just always has a good hand I don't think that is up for debate.

Me personally I'd pot A78 with NFD here, infact any NFD with a blocker or a gutshot or a pair because I think you'll get a lot of folds and people will fold ridiculously tight here and when they don't oh well 30-35% whatyagonnado (but get there) and you really don't need that many folds to make decent money here. So most of the time OTF if I decide to continue I'd be wanting folds - which would make it kinda push-fold (do I have a. enough fold equity, and b. enough equity when called and if the answer is yes to those then pot, fold if not)

However as super exploitative as this is if i had a hand like 56 with the NFD, or even better 567A with NFD then I'd defo just flat (lol) because I think the general population would lean towards a tighter fold than a lighter stack off here.

Interesting hand here would be A44* with NFD, it's a madatory ship OTF imo, and most people would just call which is very bad, you're ahead of nearly every combo of 56 (so happy to get it in) and some 56 combo's will fold (even better) so you'd be burning money by flatting and letting a weak 56 realise his equity on the turn (by this I mean hit a brick and not be a favorite)

thoughts on flatting A445 with (nut) spades?

Thanks Dave, IRL I raise this flop with this hand but I know loads of people who would fold and I could never persuade them that it's the right thing to do. Would you play any different with 5 or 6 cards with similar holdings?

Really relieved to see LilDave's reply, I was starting to doubt myself!

Even me, King Nit, ain't ever even considering folding here.

And I don't expect to be shown the same hand, but with improvers, very often. Mostly I expect to see two pair, a set, a worse straight, or NFD. I don't know how to "stove" & I'm not so good with equities & percentages, but I like my hand way too much here.

I suppose the real test, for me, were if it were the first hand of a WSOP Event, I might bottle it, but only because I was playing scared. I'd hate myself, but would find the fold I suppose.

Don't like it with NFD because of reasons in above post, FE vs the current nuts and an equity advantage when the money goes in, literally no good reason not to pile the money in.

Flatting in these spots has 3 benefits - 1) you can open you range up to include a wider variety of draws (for example it's a pretty stnd play in 4card when you have the nut striaght for example in a spot where it's pretty likely your opponent has it as well to call with the intention of bluffing him when flushes/pair ups come in) and therefore bluff similar/better hands on later streets. There is no such benefit here because every card that changes the board (exceot 6's and 7's) hits us and therefore could just kill our action.

2) to realise your equity without having to commit your whole stack - with the stack depths we're going to be AI on the turn anyways.

3) to keep weaker draws in - but with this action on the flop (donk, raaise, over-call) it's going to be seriously difficult for anyone to get involved with a Khigh FD or naked A2.

@Tikay - yh would be a bit diff in the first level of a WSOP event, because no1 would raise naked 56 for "protection" no1 would be taking off with the NFD ever even with blockers, so we'd be vs a seriously magnum range with this action/stacks.

Yup I'm very happily getting it in here

No it was at Didsbury this week during the gukpt. His name is Paul, hes black and wears funky clothes. Plays the circuit abit I think alot of people seem to know him.

Paul Parker then.

If it is Paul Parker then I can understand why you might want to fold lol!

Just to clarify I didn't fold. I got it in rather quickly, we agreed to run it twice and I got 1/4 back. He had 567sJs so was pretty sick. Just wanted to see if it is ever right to fold knowing this player is almost certainly getting it in and with the straddle behind as well only playing <600

if he's opening J765sing UTG in the FR pokers then I'd be getting it in vs him OTF, cos the sort of playeer who'd open that UTG wont generally just need the uber-mega hand to get his stack in here (sweeping generalization from me I understand but "generally speaking" I think that's pretty accurate)

or as Cos said in 1200 words less than me.

He didn't open, he flatted in late position. The UTG raiser folded the flop, op says this maybe I didn't make it clear. But yeah his hand shound never really see a flop.

Slightly off topic - Dave - when playing online Omaha 6 max, zoom, is it best to play a lot of post flop in general ? I seem to be able to spin up from small, but I tend to take aggro lines or run 2nd nuts vs nuts, at times I can hand read Omaha ok, then another time I lose my head and it all becomes pretty much a gamble.

Any advice pls?

How much do u charge for lessons? Xx

OH RIGHT. Have I mis-read the HH cos that defo makes a difference

Playing 7 handed
UTG raises to 15
Hijack calls
I call SB
BB folds
Straddle calls

Flop: Straddle bets 40, utg folds, hijack pots £200

This thread is plain weird?

But now I am thinking call is awful. Shove is bad cos only get called with hands that beat us. And we are in for £15.

Is that correct?

Well, if we get folds + get it in as a flip then shove is very profitable, it just depends whether you think that this person's range to raise the flop is ONLY 567 with a bigger flush draw, if that's the case then defo fold.

I don't believe that can be true, i think he can have some (semi)bluffs and some weaker 56 hands, I've seen nothing in this thread (except the mention that it might be paul parker lol) aside from the fact he's been the tightest guy at the table, to suggest this is wrong, and as going all-in here is very much the stnd I'd need a great deal more of a read than that to suddenly completely revert from the very easy stnd play. I've made a lot of very bad hero folds in my life to "very tight" players having developed this read because they played very tight for 3 orbits in a live poker game. There has been many times I've played very tight for 3 hours in a live game and like I said no1 would fold this hand to me OTF.

Also from a theory/maths angle the amount we've invested really doesn't matter - its £200 to call with £800/£600 in stacks and thi is the hand we have (it does make a practical difference though)

I just can't see villain making it 200 with anything we want be up against bar a bluff I suppose as he is button. I find when players in position start making pots big its fight or flight time. But the fact he has 3 bet flop multiway must set the alarm bells ringing.

I fold here for different reasons anyway. It just seems like a big flip to me. Gotta be better spots.

I do believe that re-potting is the most profitable play against almost anyone, there are just too many worse 56 combos out their that can spaz it in especially as its only 4 cards. The straddle is also a factor because he is getting the equity to get his stack in after I pot with any set+nut flush draw and therefore I think a hero fold isn't terrible but ultimately less profitable.

And yes it was deffo Paul Parker he's been in all week and i've been chatting to him quite abit.

If it was Paul, he had the made straight, with extensions, a set, NFD, and straight flush draw. Minimum.......

Paul Parker = Run for the hills!

Hi Dreenie,

it's not really a case of it's better to play a lot post-flop it's really just an essential part of 100bb+ PLO because whereas this isn't universally true once people enter pots with a hand they are going to see a flop with them (you're always a lot more surprised when people DO fold to re-raises PF than when they dont for e.g) there is a couple of different styles you can adopt.

Some people like to take a very aggressive pre-flop approach, opening wider, 4betting wider, higher 3bet/5bets and this is a workable style but the main thing to really be careful of is that you quickly pick up on who's going to battle and take you on by losening up against you and who's not going to post-flop, very easy to just over-play 2nd nuts because you'v been going a bi batshit only you'vee run into someone who'd only ever play the nuts like this regardless of how insane you've been playing.

The reason a tighter/TAG style is most popular as a default is that those mistakes are much harder to make as your perception of dynamic and game flow isn't quite as crucial.

I don't do lessons, I'd have to charge too much :D

Well vs Paul Parker, but we didn;t know this before, here is the info we had on the player.


Literally nothing there to justify what would be a fairly big hero fold, imo.

Ty for replying. Love you LilDave <3

I have really enjoyed this thread, paticularly the comments by the "Big Boys".

Even I am shovelling it in on this flop, so I was a little surprised that not all agreed, but different opinions & viewpoints are good.

But........

There is a scenario where I fold here pretty damn quickly.

In THIS case, we were heads up. But if we were 4 way, & it went pot-pot or pot-call before it got to us, & I have a player behind me, it is a fairly trivial, if painful, fold.

My reasoning would be that between the 3 players, they have all the different extensions & nut draws covered, so I have to dodge almost the entire pack. ONE player is far less likely to have more than one, two at most, of the re-draws or freerolls. I'll take him on. Three players, nope, I'm outa here, even though I am getting a monsta price.

 

I'd be electing to play all of my betting discs.
7 cards left to make any flushes - ~the folds from other players if we're putting him on any  Aspades xSpades type hand.
We've got a better redraw then him a bunch of the time especially if he's playing a bare 56, however if he's a competent reg it's very unlikely.

At worst if he does have  Aspades 4s  5d 6h etc... we still have 7 nut outs for the higher straight and it's hard to pair a board nowadays....
Cooler if we lose.

If we decide we don't like a gd old slice of variance then folding is fine, it's a spot that is going to be high variance but that's true of any spot where you have to get 200big blinds in (because if you lose, you lose 200 big blinds...)

However with the information you gave in the OP you have a clearly very profitable pot.

- You have a LOT of fold equity.

- You have a hand that CAN be dominating/unlucky to be crushed.

If you do decide to fold then that's fine, but I'm hugely convinced that you'd be giving up a chunk of money doing so. Better spots don't really exist than ones where you can just say "pot" and make money, no playing down the streets, no chance of future mistakes etc. Like I said though, there is always big Variance in these hands.

Well I would say we have checked oop on flop with the intention of shoving any action but we get the exact action that makes our hand vulnerable.

Glad to have recieved lots of insight on this hand from the Blonde community. It has all been a great read. Thanks

Yeah it's a good hand.

I had a great pissed up one hour debate with my best poker buddy in the pub the other night about it. He agrees with Lil D but then again he would as he can be a little degen sometimes and just loves playing massive pots at live deep PLO.

However he struggled to come up with many hands that the re raiser on the flop would bet that we crush. But he said he still has to get it in! I said " you got £15 invested"  and he STILL takes the Lil D line of get it in.

So I have to succumb to my 2 favourite poker mentors.

Does that really hold true, though?

The fact we check may be exactly why our man pots it, because he senses weakness, he has position, and we checked.

Cause and effect.

He can also, of course, have the hand you suggest.

If you are playing 5h6s7c8s and you aren't excited about a 2s3s4c flop, why are you playing the hand at all? That's how I see it.

Having said that, I am expert at getting it all in bad in this game :-)

Think he's always wanting to get the money in thats why I thought it was interesting spot, punting in £1000 when we could be completely crushed. The straddle always has a good hand also, he never leads out with just 56 as hes a very good player and to do that is awful. So there are so many factors to consider in this hand and thats why a fold or shove are both reasonable given the action.

this is exactly why live PLO is so awful and games should never be more than 6-max.

Agreed. Not really enough money in pot to bluff here though? And he would bet less. It just seems like he is happy to bloat pot in position which is a bit scary. If it was my local game I would fold against maybe 3 players and shove v the rest and randoms.

It's all about the buttons style of play not ours.

Sorry to hijack thread but would be interested to know how the more knowledgable players would proceed with this hand.

PLO 2/2 at Broadway
I was on the waiting list foir the 2/2 so joined the 1/2 game. Very dull game but managed to book a £400 profit. Was feeling a bit tired and was ready to go home but then a seat came available on the 2/2. I joined with the intention of just playing for an hour and sat short stacked with £200. After 60 min of play i was now holding £700 and declared I was leaving after half an hour.

My hand As Ac Jc 10s 9c 9h
6 handed
Villain 1 -1300 Aggressive
Villain 2- 250 Aggressive

I straddle £4
2 limpers both TAG
Villain 1 - Button makes it £24
Villain 2 - SB calls
BB pass
Me raise to £100 (should have potted it here)
Limpers fold
Villain1 calls
Villain2 shoves
Me??

Are you happy getting as many of your soldiers in here?

Don't think I'm ever passing this hand with action.

Lets bet all the discs.

I pot Get it in and love life.... Theres ZERO agrument to fold....

Deffo jamming now given the action. Personally i hate to 3-bet pre in 6 card especially out of position, your hand flops well so post flop play is always more profitable here imo.

You can get your stack in now anyway so 100 seems fine earlier. Not even I ( PLO ultra nit) can find a reason for folding here. Not much argument for calling to play a side pot through the streets as that will look stronger than shoving.

Short stacks in 6 card are just the most tilting things ever. It's a better game about 5am with about 5 big stacks only when über drunk.

@bobalike - yeh DEFO go all in, literally no other play can't possibly fold, calling is pointless when we can get our stack in, you might get it in 3 way, and might not be amazing equity spot but defo printing getting it in.

6card Omaha is such a boring game, people somehow believe it's really "gambley" or "bingo" but it really isn't it's just a huge nits game.

Dave,

Do you play much (any?!) PLO8?

I want to try to brush my game up a bit, but it's not a game where there is much interest out there. I have a pretty good grasp of the mechanics of the game, but there are still quite a few mysteries, things I struggle with. (i.e., winning.....).

Your in the wrong game, 5/6/7 ways arrrrrrrr ins and potting blind where I play. Tbf, it happens in 4 card too.

Yes, but that is Omaha Roulette, & has no skill. Good for a spin-up. Or down.

I concur to some degree, the game ebbs and flows over the course of the night but the hands you see. I had a friend tell me that QQQ666 is a hand he should play because last time he had 222 he made a set and won a big pot. Now that is a 6o game you want to be in.

this as well btw. bit annoying because whilst the rest of the table is being splashy and playing every hand etc it's still totally correct to be a nit if you want to win...

Cheers guys. Much appreciated. As it happens this happened to me in the last 2 PLO games I played. Won one lost one. Still up on this years sessions so can't moan.

6card still a stupid game imo, it's actually shrewd for weaker players to pick it but for totally different reasons to the reason they actually pick it for :P

Hi Tony,

Yeh, I play quite a bit of it, mostly in live games and almost entirely 6card (actually prefer 6card plo8 to 4card haha) but a bit of it online. What do you struggle with? TBH it's probably my one of my weaker if not my weakest game. its much less of a dynamic game than the others imo, as in very solid play with often stifle out any sort of flair/exuberance - a table of pretty good players will very likely just be pushing rake around its hard for one good player to be miles better than another good player.

That being said, it's grown on me and I quite like it nowadays.

I choose max at the moment when possible because I feel like the positional edge is greatest in 6 card. Thoughts? Bearing in mind I am typically playing 200-300 and the table consists of a variation of £100-1k stacks, and normally 2 chinese players that aren't fundamentally solid but big winners, then a variety of your i put chips in the pot because I have been dealt 4 cards, with their own tendancies etc.

P.S ofc 6 card is a ridiculous game. I played 3 hands of hu 13 card lolmaha at DTD once, when the whole table went to smoke/circlejerk/whatever I can't remember a single bet going in post as my opponent and I were obviously chilling a bit, but what number of cards is too many? I feel like a 5 card max 8 handed live game would be 5x more fun than the 10 handed 4 card snoozefests up north, but the casinos won't change the game.

P.P.S how is my p.s longer than the original post :(

i) Positional advantage decreases with the amount of cards you have. Easiest way to overcome positional disadvantage? Make hands, when you're 4 way to a flop in 6card omaha OTB then you can be as in position as you like you're still against 18 cards.

ii) The more cards you have, the nittier the game is - 4card omaha there is bluffing, thinner value-betting, more semi-bluffing + playable combo draws. 8 card omaha is all about having the nuts the most amount of re-draws and trying to free-roll someone, obviously NF blocker bluffs are much more useful in 6card but then most of the time if you've not played an awful starting hand when you have the NF card you'll have another of the same suit with it.

Positional edge is much greater at 4 card PLO than at 6 card. You can play a lot of hands on the BTN at 4 card, but have to stick to good hands at 6 cards. [edited: what Lil'Dave said above^^]

Going back to the original hand. I am getting this in on the flop, but I can understand that it is not quite as great a spot as it might first appear. The fact that there are reasonable arguments for folding (even if I disagree with them on balance) actually highlights something interesting about preflop hand selection at PLO:

Most people think a hand like 8765 with suits is an amazingly sexy hand and get over excited about it. In some situations 8765ss really is a premium hand, however in other situations it is nothing more than a fairly good hand. In multiway pots this hand is often not anywhere near as good as some people think - it is still playable, but is really nothing to get all horny about. Your flush draws are more likely to be dominated if there are lots of players seeing the flop, and hitting something like two pair plus an open-ender is not always a comfortable through ticket for all your money on the flop like it usually would be in a HU or threeway pot. This is why it is often good to 3bet this sort of medium rundown hand in position, to try to play the hand HU or threeway rather than playing it vs five other opponents. It is still almost always profitable multiway, but is often more profitable in short-handed situations.

The hand in question illustrates this pretty well. We have flopped as good as we possibly can with this hand, yet there are still people advocating folding! I realise that this is because of the specific action and it won't always work out like this, and for that matter I don't agree with folding even with how the action went down. But that is not the point. The point is that it highlights how a hand like 8765ss is not always quite as sexy as it sometimes appears.

Great posts from the pros :)up

I love PLO 4/5/6 preferably 6 card for the simple reason I have a very short attention span and with PLO there's nearly always something happening. It does feel more gambly/bingoey (are they even words?) but your def right about being a nitty game unless you just want to flip for it.

im glad 6 card omaha exists, and actually most people SHOULD pick it lol it just always tilts me when people say things like "Oh 4card again who boring" followed by "yes! 6cards now we can gamble" when actually the two statements are completely reversed, way more gambling in 4card plo and 6card PLO is for the rocks who are just waiting till you have the nuts with a mediocre re-draw and can get their money in vs you freerolling...