blonde poker forum

Live £1/2 table with a £5 straddle, London.

Player 1 opens to £40 over a normal blinds plus £5 straddle, with only a fold in front of him.  He is a weak hand reader, sat 500deep and seems to overestimate hand strength, but has never made such a huge raise with either value or bluff.

Player 2 is a weak, passive, fit or fold player who peels too much pre and flop - calls the £40 quickly from 350-400.

We find the button and x hand, we note the loose-ish player in the big blind sat very deep (covers all) and another weak, passive player in straddle, expecting our hand to go 4 or 5 way to the flop over 90%.
We call.

SB folds, BB tank folds (hmmm :[ ) and straddle snap folds...

FLOP
Th 9c 8h

Check, check...  We bet 65> 128.... Call, call.

TURN
6c

Open shove for 'pot', tank fold... We??

What do we do with these hands:
- 10, 10
- AA
- J10hh/ cc
- Qxhh/ cc
- A10o (with or without nfd blocker)

And why???

We cover him by £15 or something silly.. Only thing we know is he over estimates hand strength
(I.e. Lead/ shoved 89o on 679 vs pfr for a lot of cheeseburgers)


???

1. Call
2. 3b/call pre especially vs "weak peely players", puke now, prob fold.
3. Prob fold pre, call now.
4. Fold pre, not sure, prob call now if we're calling with  Jh Th.
5. Fold pre.

1. Call
2. Call
3. Call
4. Fold
5. Shoot myself for preflop.

Would be folding a decent amount pre, feels like 66-JJ with some weird stuff like KJhh KQcc thrown in. Calling with ATo would be really bad

Why................?

We have AT which doesn't play well against his range here and we cut ourselves lots/put ourselves in a spot to make a mistake.

I think I'm folding the JTs now despite all the outs and AA as well I think, I don't see how it is a bluff with action as described and don't think we have equity to call, JTcc/hh have so many outs maybe we cant fold.

Strange line?

Surely AA is a near impossible line? You can only have tj h  to get here?

Call now and muck or scoop.

I don't think I have a flatting range pre flop for what is effectively a 20bb open, and if I do have one, its massively polarised.

Not sure I would ever 3b AA pre here..

The guy is going to be super polarised and we have all thegood cards, player 2 always has weak hands and can stack off on a lot of boards..
Only reasons would be a tiny 3bt to ensure hu/ 3way/ induce blowups...
(think they just fold their entire range too much tho when they overbet, and we raise)


The AA could get here, bet flop to get wide range to call, on turn - second FD appears and he turns aggro...?? One liner good for bluffing?

Think the JT/ Qx fd's just have too many 'nut outs' to fold getting 2-1


Other than that, agree A10 fold now.
Possibly agree pre, however not going to be dominated enough imo and its probably the 'line'.

10's is a proper fml as we has all the good cards...
don't think we can fold but no blockers to combo draws etc, kinda sucks.

Other than that...

Guess which player I am, which hand we have.......?

Sorry. Lost now.

I will read again in morning when sober.

Player 2 hand 1 and folded.

loooooooooool

You are on the button, so player 3?

You called pre flop with A10, and snapped the turn, fist pumped when they turned over J 10 , because the river was the  2s.

You scooped all the moniez.

Not wanting to derail but

Given the opening raise size, the caller and the fact we have an "obvious squeeze spot" on button, not raising AA pre in live poker is a disaster

playing Qxhh this way and AT pre (an flop) isnt great

So left with TT and JThh, I call TT,  and dwell die a little with JThh

fold
3b
fold
fold
fold

Ya not 3betting aa would be horrific.

It's live, they will peel.

Come on John don't go back there!

#wehavethenuts #theyhatefolding #trapcallgo4ways

Ok, ok.. We didnt have A10/ AA.

Would've min3bt AA probably, just ISO the two weaker players.

So were left with the other hands..

How do we think they play vs a range that is aggro pre, passive flop, aggro turn...??

Getting 2-1, can we fold? Should we?

Equilab/end thread?

Did you not think the open was a touch on the big side?

It strikes me of a 99-JJ AQ AK type hand pre

if you can keep his range nice and narrow the decision should be easy enough.

Doubt im ever folding TT, but the JThh hand would warrant some maths I think

Not 3betting AA pre and even bothering considering what to do with TT now both make my head asplode.

Obv we never get to this point with AT/Qx sooted.

If we've somehow got here with JT sooted (which we shouldn't have done) then do the maths, yes?

this.

sorry john but this is another case you making an easy spot tough for no good reason.

Also FYI, if somebody is polarised, it doesn't mean they only ever have a really strong hand. A few ppl misusing the term itt.

Leta recap on the hand. As I haven't made anything more or less complex imo.

We're on the button, with a weak player sitting deep opening to 2.5-3x bigger than normal, called by another weak player.

We have a loose deepstacked player oop in BB and a really passive weak player in straddle.
Expecting them to come along, a lot - and to rarely get squeezed (essential imo)

We then see a dripping wet flop and are checked too, three ways.

We either have top set, tp+oesd+bkdrfd/ tp+oesd+FD or a gutterball+ over+FD.

We bet for value with all 3 otf, called in two spots.

We then get shoved on when a one liner appears and the massive preflop raiser is the one using the shovel on the chips.



So does he have just QJ only?
7x?

Value hands????

Maths of housing up, hitting big draws vs made hands?

He has Jx (AJ or JJ) or sometimes QJ.

Yes it's just a maths thing vs that range with whatever you've got.

edit: misread board thought it was 789T, point still stands sort of though

Just tell us what kitchens you peeled with vs a utg+1 8x open bud.

p.s. no we should not call it off with a fd as we'd have less equity than we need vs pot odds.

Unsure if this is lolautocorrect or a brilliant term of which I have been hitherto unaware, but I like it whatever its roots.

Ha no its famous termInology.

<3 kitchens

Purely for Nathans butchery of the English language I will open we have
Jc Tc

Now what???

Also, first impression is i would be happier with
Jc Tc calling than 1010 purely because it plays better vs the range in my head.

Thoughts?

Confirmed misread the board  ;booboo; ;noflopshomer;

this raise size is always 99-JJ btw. like, literally always.

so I think you have some maths to do.

I have had someone else say this exact thing...

That's the raise size pre, granted, but now he's done something postflop that doesn't match up with this holding...
When have you seen a weak player check a set/ JJ on this board as pfr when oop.

#doesntaddupbro

I totally disagree with any statement that narrows a single raise preflop regardless of sizing down to 3 specific hands "always".

They are very likely holdings. Perhaps the most likely.

But to rule out other hands is totally wrong.

the reason they make it three hundred trillion bigs pre is because 'they hate Jacks' and because they can't play flops. If they get a lot of callers they tend to play a bit scared and then when the field thins they go mad thinking 'I hope he doesn't have a seven somehow'.

The board is dripping wet and he's probably planning to check/raise and changes his mind 'I'll just see the turn', because 'I hate Jacks'

i know what you're saying, and you're right ofc. those combos make up a very very large percentage of his range ofc.

except it is always those hands :D

blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=60980.0 (http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=60980.0)

 :kiss:

Dunno why I even looked.

Meh.

:D

I have no idea why people seem to think this is some never-before-seen gigantastic open raise size from villain. There is a £5 straddle on. So villain has really made it 8 BBs to play, not 20 BBs. If you think this is in some way unheard of in live poker then either,

a) you only play in really tough games in which everyone is solid and so no-one can ever get away with making very big preflop raises and still get action, or

b) you are not adjusting properly to the true dynamics of live play.

Live games constantly change in texture. There are definitely many times on a live poker table where you can open raise to far more than 8 BBs and expect to get several callers. When this is the case then why on earth would you not do so? I have, on occasion, opened to 20 BBs and had half the table call without really thinking about it. You've just got to be aware of how your opponents are feeling at the time.

AA has just GOT to be 3bet here. I have no idea why you'd be thinking of flatting it.

ATo has just GOT to be folded here. If you think this is close either way - that this is where the 'line' is - then you need to radically readjust your positioning of the line.

How can you have Qxs hands that are not the nut straight? Are you really calling preflop with Q9s or QTs? If so, then this is really bad. Even calling preflop with QJs is not exactly great given the size of the open, but it is much better than Q9s!

yeah I know Stu, I just put up 'hands' people might believe I would/ could peel otb expecting a multiway pot.

I actually had the JT, do you do anything different to the turn?
Bigger otf is the only thing I think I should change atm.

But here because I want to discuss and work on it...

?

Also, I haven't got WiFi at 'hers' so that's why I haven't been in contact for a bit.

Will be as soon as im home/ she gets it sorted (next wk apparently)

Everyone in the world see's AA otb after someone has made it £40 and is delighted at the chance to make it £150 with the best starting hand possible.

For JB tho its a 4 paragraph essay on why we should just call

Yeeeha! I got one correct that did not involve the action: fold.

I could upgrade from nit to solid by 2019. Get in!

Dave, hasn't everyone in this thread said they thought his range is 99-JJ..

What do we think he does playing 550 when we make it £120-150 pre??
I guess he folds too much...
Agree???

£150 seems vbig considering how deep they are. £95 seems about right.

we think he has 99-JJ loads but we don't wanna 3bet AA, makes sense....

Poker is a very simple game at heart and we don't always need to over-complicate things, I know you love the theory and would love to have a super complex plan for every street in every hand but really 90% of the time it's just not needed!

Like one of my good friends and best players around always says...

"Just HOLD the good cards, and FOLD the bad cards"

How many times has John been told this tho? FPS is part of his make up. Don't think you're gonna change that

LOL at the bit i've bolded. This is just complete complete rubbish. 90%? You think people are flicking in the 8x on the £5 straddle with ATC? Pretty sure unless they are terrible this is very very rarely going 5-ways.

Fwiw i'd definiately consider and probably would just fold pre. The unexpectedly larger the normal opening size indicates a stronger than usual opening range. TJs doesn't play great against that when SPR is reduced so much by the bloated nature of this pot.

Of the hands listed i'd call TT and fold all the rest... i mean TJcc is close, but i'm just not getting to the flop with any of the hands listed except TT/AA.

Also <3 this...



Making it like £110 here EVERY TIME.... and getting peeled most of the time in at least one spot.

I don't try to get FPS in just for fun.  I merely tried to work out what OR makes it with £40 pre and wondered if he would always stack off with it.

Clearly I didn't have AA so I dont know what I would have done, but like I said 'probably not 3b' is a mistake.
Id have likely made it 92-107 or something because if the two villains in question.

Im interested as to the ranges people have assigned for OR.

I was really surprised to see the BB fold, his tank-fold showed how much he had to fight the 'flickitin' feeling.

The straddle calls close to 100% when the BB calls imo, purely because if who he was.

anyways, im interested in the JcTc peel pre, and the turn situation....


I dont think anyone on here knows what happens next yet.
#legggoooresults!!

Guy says to me "so you've got QJ then?"

and then tables the might 7 ducey offsoooted....



What about 99-JJ now?

To me his hand now makes perfect sense...
- pre, massive because he wants to show the 72
- flop, picks up equity and doesnt want to barell (shame i probably would've shipped over a cbet) and get blown off
- turn, made a hand and has no idea what to do..... shove

sigh.

QED

vis a vis, ipso facto that's blockbusters!

What 7x does he have?

The only one that makes sense...... 7 and a 2 baby!

I love...LOVE reading your posts and thought process.
They are levels right?
I mean iv signed up to this forum just to tell you how terrible you are hahaha
"We flat £40 with Jc Tc....we float  Ks 7s" its hilarious.
So yea...u suck, stick to 10 nl noob.

welcome to blonde sir, I hope you enjoy your stay.

You are learning fast John. Don't bite.

Hopefully Mr Trollbridge will post more constructively in the future.

Cool story bro, come back when you've double floated K7 of 349Q and chk double merge potted the river cos you're a sick mofo.

#noheart

Soz posted on my alternate blonde account.

Also gtfo

tbf, John's posts are hilarious on many levels and I do think he'll do chunks at 50NL and most other forms of poker...ergo pretty constructive really. Noob obv not true so some lack of accuracy should be called out

ouch...
I guess I've got a long way to go until I'm crushing anything.

I'm off to get started.

Look John in regards to the hand.....
Its live poker, why are you even putting yourself in these spots, calling 20 bigs pre with  Jc Tc, then crossing your fingers and hoping you hit. Would it not be better to implement a style where you are favourite to take the money whether you hit or not by (almost always) having the betting lead?

Most live poker hands £1/£2 or below should go like this....."moron goes 40 quid utg.....MP calls with 250 behind.....u make it £120 on the button with  Aspades Ahrt /  Kc Kd.....utg the gun folds and tells you hes messing about with 7 2.....mp "puts you on AK" and ships with his pocket 4s, you call and scoop £x's"

Its seems you are seriously over-thinking what is essentially waiting for droolers to give you their money.

And in regards to 50nl 6m zoom, you got more chance of winning the lottery #yousuck at 25nl no way u gonna beat 50

Regards,
Trollbridge

P.S Tikay unlike all the 20-40 year old competent regulars on sky poker i CBA to humour you. You are incredibly naive and your opinions should probably be ignored by anyone.

gg trollbridge.

wow, just wow.

Fascist

lol [ ] trollbridge wins at live poker :-)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZJqIYowUinY/UVMA0kcciVI/AAAAAAAAp8o/F_lcG6gEzlE/s1600/FGLeap.gif)

You always have the best gifs.

This is an interesting thread actually about pha from my point of view. Although I can't have anyone slagging off Mr K, I am inclined to agree with Trollbridge.

Let me assure you they do drool their dough off!

I love reading Blonde but pha makes me laugh.

Mmmm? I have a line I want checked in my local casino 1/1 or 1/2 game. Ok I will pop it up on blonde. Why?

I don't think 15% of the replies on a thread will be from players who have sat on a local casino game on a fri/sat night sober sucking up all the pissed up eejits chips. You will however get advice from multi table 6 max cash or multi table stt/mtt online players and you know what? It is not relevant . In fact it is -EV.

I think there is a huge difference between the strategy in local casinos or London or DTD  1/1 games compared to the games I read on here where it's 1/2 and all 1k deep. It is a different game.

I never understand when I visit DTD for a weekend all the regs are sat together having a big ego boost deep cash game together! Dumbest thing I ever seen. You have 400 people on the piss coming to visit you ffs. Try get some?

So to sum up. Keep it fkn simple unless you are in a multi levelling war with your mates in which case you is wasting cheese.

Send up the Cheese!

Wow, people just don't get it.

If you refer to your opponents as droolers and eeijits then you can't win at live poker. For every second you spend thinking "wow this guys a clown, what a drooler" you're disrespecting your opponent - you don't have to respect them as a good poker player, but you have to respect the fact they are sat their, with money and they are capable of beating you.

Any strategy of "waiting for droolers to give you their money" is also an awful way to approach live cash games, ok so they guys a bad player i) Why is he bad? ii) what are the biggest mistaes he's making iii) How are we going to punish him for these mistakes.

@Gouty - you're wrong about the DTD 1/2 games "all the lads having an ego war" I used to think that, but that just isn't what is happening,

You're saying that posting on PHA and getting advice from a variety of good players with backgrounds to the format of the hand is -EV? I mean you must know that's ridiculous, considering the welth of experience and talent the blonde PHA has.

Can only assume you were drunk when you made that post because it's an awful, awful post, and I've never seen you make an awful post before.

Too long on the internetz.

Fwiw, I've spent 100s of hours in these exact games. Also the 1/2 I've played in London was pretty deep for the most part.

Ego wars are underrated, how else am I supposed to prove I'm the best? Too much nancying about and friendliness.

Interested to hear about the 85 percent of pll that havnt played much live poker before

Pleno take you -EV advice to JB's triple merge turn chk/raise thread pls.

can we get back to the hand and how almost everyone is flicking it in pre...
then what is the best size otf...
then how quickly we call mum and tell her were all in for a lot of hamburgers..

this really is one of the first live hands where I full expected everyone to just say "50p john, ul mate"

And that seems to be what they said about the Jc Tc prior to knowing which hand was mine.....

Abso bollocksed. Just woke up and still pissed.

But my wife says I only tell the truth when I am pissed so there must be something in that post that is relevant!

(http://media.tumblr.com/4b0853157d9dbfa53e6fa10e964e37aa/tumblr_inline_mini0opivC1qz4rgp.gif)

haha <3 Gouty :)

Author: John black
Title: strange hand
Never a doubt this would be less than 5 pages.

There was also a John black protege on full tilt yesterday