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Title: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: Pinchop73 on July 23, 2013, 12:50:01 PM Around 20 hands into the FT of this $33r comp Monday night.
Villain in this coup is of questionable quality, a small winner. Has coolered a couple people on my table 2 tables out. I've shipped complete air on him otr for double pot on the FT bubble after checking flop first to act and he's tank folded, giving me a really decent stack to play the FT with. Felt I should mention this because this hand isn't the only hand I've shipped on him. thoughts? PokerStars Hand #101757474560: Tournament #762693409, $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (1500/3000) - 2013/07/22 23:43:09 WET [2013/07/22 18:43:09 ET] Table '762693409 2' 9-max Seat #5 is the button Seat 1: markovitsus (69224 in chips) Seat 2: 89rhino89 (57787 in chips) Seat 3: OBigO (58684 in chips) Seat 4: CRYWOLFRUS (46158 in chips) Seat 5: salaliitto (80511 in chips) Seat 6: shermanash (40572 in chips) Seat 7: JOKERVDIJK (326091 in chips) Seat 8: Spraggs (94877 in chips) Seat 9: Ultraballs18 (105096 in chips) markovitsus: posts the ante 300 89rhino89: posts the ante 300 OBigO: posts the ante 300 CRYWOLFRUS: posts the ante 300 salaliitto: posts the ante 300 shermanash: posts the ante 300 JOKERVDIJK: posts the ante 300 Spraggs: posts the ante 300 Ultraballs18: posts the ante 300 shermanash: posts small blind 1500 JOKERVDIJK: posts big blind 3000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ultraballs18 [Ac Ad] Spraggs: folds Ultraballs18: raises 3000 to 6000 markovitsus: folds 89rhino89: folds OBigO: folds CRYWOLFRUS: folds salaliitto: folds shermanash: folds JOKERVDIJK: calls 3000 *** FLOP *** [2s 9d 6h] JOKERVDIJK: checks Ultraballs18: checks *** TURN *** [2s 9d 6h] [5h] JOKERVDIJK: bets 7100 Ultraballs18: calls 7100 *** RIVER *** [2s 9d 6h 5h] [6d] JOKERVDIJK: bets 17880 Ultraballs18: raises 73816 to 91696 and is all-in JOKERVDIJK: calls 73816 *** SHOW DOWN *** Ultraballs18: shows [Ac Ad] (two pair, Aces and Sixes) JOKERVDIJK: shows [Qh 6s] (three of a kind, Sixes) JOKERVDIJK collected 213792 from pot Ultraballs18 finished the tournament in 9th place and received $300.00. *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 213792 | Rake 0 Board [2s 9d 6h 5h 6d] Seat 1: markovitsus folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: 89rhino89 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: OBigO folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: CRYWOLFRUS folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: salaliitto (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: shermanash (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 7: JOKERVDIJK (big blind) showed [Qh 6s] and won (213792) with three of a kind, Sixes Seat 8: Spraggs folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: Ultraballs18 showed [Ac Ad] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sixes Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: pleno1 on July 23, 2013, 01:38:16 PM wuwwwwwwwwww too thin imo.
sexy upto the river, just call now. Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: lucky_scrote on July 23, 2013, 01:44:21 PM If you think he's going to call you down light then why the hell are you checking the flop? Am I missing something?
Feel like I've been harsh on the hands you've posted up but you're a decent player so you deserve it :P Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: pleno1 on July 23, 2013, 01:57:14 PM be ause if hes peeling wiht hands like q5s etc he misses this baord alot but will improve equity on the turn a reasonable amount of time and bluff twice a rrason abmount of the time.
i puke at this river sizing and htink its polarized between air and nuts so i call. Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: Pinchop73 on July 23, 2013, 01:58:14 PM If you think he's going to call you down light then why the hell are you checking the flop? Am I missing something? Feel like I've been harsh on the hands you've posted up but you're a decent player so you deserve it :P That's the thing, I don't think he will call me down light. I want him to take the initiative so he truly believes that his K9o is good. On the river I'm going to be looking for a Hero to ensure maximum value, so I decide to manipulate the hand on the flop and turn to try and guarantee this. If I bet the flop, the hand is OVER. My hand is way too strong for the hand to be over. Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: Pinchop73 on July 23, 2013, 02:03:49 PM Admittedly the river sizing was a little surprising but I didn't feel like pussying out of my original plan. This is something I should maybe have thought about more at the time, but a tank ship gets called way less than an insta ship so just went with it.
Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: lucky_scrote on July 23, 2013, 02:05:07 PM Yeah interesting for sure. I probably don't take this flop line enough.
Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: PathFinder on July 23, 2013, 02:40:54 PM If you think he's going to call you down light then why the hell are you checking the flop? Am I missing something? Feel like I've been harsh on the hands you've posted up but you're a decent player so you deserve it :P If I bet the flop, the hand is OVER. My hand is way too strong for the hand to be over. Do you not think he would call with 2nd Pair? Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: pleno1 on July 23, 2013, 02:59:57 PM yeh but its a tiny part of his range
Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: TL900 on July 23, 2013, 03:11:25 PM hes defended the bb this flop is pretty good for him imo, hes gona have all sorts of pairs/open enders/gutshots that he wont fold on the flop, people dont like folding flops in general and he might even c/r bluff. Flop feels like a slam dunk bet, turn is pretty terrible for us and we have no idea about his range and that card is obv much better for his than ours means I would just call river I think, thinking hes gona b/c a 9 is v ambitious imo
Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: PathFinder on July 23, 2013, 03:17:04 PM yeh but its a tiny part of his range If we talk about his entire range though he calls flop bet with all flopped pairs all pocket pairs all connectors. May even call one with Ace Hi or 2 overs with back doors. I think not betting flop is a mistake but if we are taking this line we shouldn't raise river. Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: wazz on July 23, 2013, 08:40:05 PM Would be more willing to check the flop with a set of 6s or 9s as we now block a lot of his value range but feel like if we price it small he'll peel a fairly healthy amount and we might even induce a c/r bluff.
Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: rfgqqabc on July 24, 2013, 12:10:26 AM I really like your plan and I definitely agree with your views on river timings. I've tried a few obscene timebank bluffs but its never got through :(
I know what you mean about betting the flop, and without a picture/T I agree, is there a way of analysing the our stacks value if we just call, and if we shove? Obviously we need some serious number crunching and to have a good idea of river calling range etc, but if he feel he might get his cape on, I can't hate it. Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: Pinchop73 on July 24, 2013, 10:09:46 AM Flop feels like a slam dunk bet... ...thinking hes gona b/c a 9 is v ambitious imo If you feel the flop is a slam dunk then obviously, your going to think that him bet calling a 9 is ambitious. Nits are hardly ever going to get 2 streets out of his (for example) Q6o with a flop bet, let alone get maximum value. Wheras with my image, people at least consider (and often do) paying me off with top pair vs my check flop, float turn and cram river range. But with ICM considerations I do absolutely feel your line is way more correct and I should certainly start thinking of taking less creative lines when I start to play for the real money. Finishing 9th for a bowl is getting pretty tiring. Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: The Squid on July 25, 2013, 12:13:21 PM The fact that he's defending Q6o suggests he doesn't perceive your range o be as strong as you evidently do and therefore he's likely to be quite stubborn.
Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: Pinchop73 on July 25, 2013, 01:18:13 PM How would you play it Bert?
I mean I was like 'I am going to take you down, I am going to take you down, to val-ue town. Value town centre, here - we - come! Chooo f#cking CHOOO!' Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: youthnkzR on July 26, 2013, 08:44:16 AM Love flop line - guarantees your getting at least one street - think river is sweet as well - pretty sure we get called super light a lot of the time and am actually in shock how people are saying its thin. Ul on result. You usually get the max.
If you feel the flop is a slam dunk then obviously, your going to think that him bet calling a 9 is ambitious. Nits are hardly ever going to get 2 streets out of his (for example) Q6o with a flop bet, let alone get maximum value. Wheras with my image, people at least consider (and often do) paying me off with top pair vs my check flop, float turn and cram river range. But with ICM considerations I do absolutely feel your line is way more correct and I should certainly start thinking of taking less creative lines when I start to play for the real money. Finishing 9th for a bowl is getting pretty tiring. However the only downside is this - but its very situational. Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: pleno1 on July 26, 2013, 02:10:47 PM Love flop line - guarantees your getting at least one street - think river is sweet as well - pretty sure we get called super light a lot of the time and am actually in shock how people are saying its thin. Ul on result. You usually get the max. If you feel the flop is a slam dunk then obviously, your going to think that him bet calling a 9 is ambitious. Nits are hardly ever going to get 2 streets out of his (for example) Q6o with a flop bet, let alone get maximum value. Wheras with my image, people at least consider (and often do) paying me off with top pair vs my check flop, float turn and cram river range. But with ICM considerations I do absolutely feel your line is way more correct and I should certainly start thinking of taking less creative lines when I start to play for the real money. Finishing 9th for a bowl is getting pretty tiring. However the only downside is this - but its very situational. The sizing makes it thin, the sizing screams polarized to me. Do you really think these regs are going for this sizing with a 1 pair kind of hand? I think its easiest call in world ainec. Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: Pinchop73 on July 26, 2013, 02:18:11 PM 17880 into 30400 isn't THAT polarising, but I agree that it's a little bigger than expected.
Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: Pinchop73 on July 26, 2013, 03:35:04 PM I can totally understand your thoughts on the flop check but in all honesty I still bet for value from worse hands...when he calls the flop & the scarish card comes on the turn I check for 2 reasons: 1: induce a river bluff from my opponent 2: control the pot because the 5 helps hands i.e. draws, 2 pair hands & possible flopped sets (even fish get lucky) I probably fold to his river jam as like you said, all you can beat is a bluff. Let me know what you think? Lee Hello. :) Na affence, but your post isn't particularly congruent with the HH that I posted, are you sure this is the hand you meant to comment on? Title: Re: Stars $33r FT - River shiiippp Post by: pleno1 on July 26, 2013, 03:45:32 PM 17880 into 30400 isn't THAT polarising, but I agree that it's a little bigger than expected. when somebody uses 2x their turn sizing in these spots they generally arent going for thin value imo. |